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Windows XP ICS & Win98 client won't access Internet connection

Posted on 2005-04-05
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I have an XP profession box with two ethernet cards.

Card 1 (ip address 192.168.0.5) is used to connect to a adsl modem
Card 2 (ip address 192.168.0.1) is used for the LAN

ICS has been enabled in XP.  Internet connection works fine on this box

Win98 Client

Card 1 (ip address - 192.168.0.2) is used to connect to XP box via a crossover cable to Card 2 in XP box

Home network wizard has been run from an XP CD and the network works fine ie I can browse folders and files on both machines in either direction.  I can ping 192.168.0.1, but not 192.168.0.5.  The default gateway has been set to 192.168.0.1

Problem:  I can't get the Win98 box to access the Internet.  I have tried to ping a website directly ie Google, but am unable.  I did this to try and rule out a DNS issue.  I have also try pinging the name www.google.com.  It doesn't seem to matter what I do, the network works fine, but I can't get an outside address web address.


TIA


Rodney




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Question by:rcocker
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Expert Comment

by:nedvis
ID: 13713740
"The default gateway has been set to 192.168.0.1"
It should be the 192.168.0.5   since that's the NIC (  Card 1 ) connected to internet directly!


Good luck
nedvis
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by:nedvis
ID: 13713773
Is this your LAN diagram correct ?

ADSL<------>(192.168.0.1)[WinXP](192.168.0.5)<------->(192.168.0.2)[Win98]

Make sure also Routing and Remote Access service is enabled and running on Win XP box.

good luck
nedvis
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by:rcocker
ID: 13714115
I have tried using 192.168.0.5 as the gateway that also fails.  I have also tried to ping 192.168.0.5 and that also fails.  My understanding though is that the default gateway should be 192.168.0.1 because the nic in the win98 box with 192.168.0.2 must go through 192.168.0.1 to get to 192.168.0.5.

Ie there is a crossover cable between 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.  Another cable between 192.168.0.5 and the adsl modem
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by:rcocker
ID: 13714119
sorry crossover btw 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2
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by:rcocker
ID: 13714135
No this diagram is not correct

it should look like this:

ADSL Modem <---->192.168.0.5|XP Box|192.168.0.1<---->192.168.0.2|Win98

Where do I go to check Routing and Remote Access on WinXP?
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by:Fatal_Exception
ID: 13716311
no, no, no...  You are correct, the default gateway on the 98 box must be the inward facing NIC of the XP box, and the DG of the XP box (on the outbound facing NIC) will be the modem.

Now, personally, I hate using ICS, and would suggest you purchase a consumer grade router to do this for you, as this is what they are meant for..  Pick one up for under $30 and your problem is solved in 10 minutes...  but if you wish to continue, ck this
for RAS, ck your Services:

Routing and Remote Access Service
Service Name RemoteAccess Process Name svchost.exe
Default Settings    XP Home   : Disabled    XP Pro   : Manual
Microsoft Service Description Offers routing services to businesses in local area and wide area network environments.
Dependencies NetBIOSGroup Remote Procedure Call (RPC)
Real World Description Allows LAN and WAN dial in access to the computer.
Is this service needed?    Possibly  
Recommended Setting:
Disabled
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Assisted Solution

by:Gen2003
Gen2003 earned 1000 total points
ID: 13716634
Use different networks on XP adapters:

ADSL modem:

If connected via LAN to XP set address to 192.168.10.2 (i.e.)

XP

Card1: 192.168.10.1 DG: 192.168.10.2
Card2: 192.168.0.1 No DG:

Win98:
192.168.0.2 DG: 192.168.0.1

Regards
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by:crissand
ID: 13717093
As gen2003 wrote it is imperative to use different networks on the two nics, because of default gateway.

Also, add to the windows 98 the DNS server address as being 192.168.0.1 and network mask of 255.255.255.0 using Gen2003's network addresses.
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by:rcocker
ID: 13722616
Thanks for all the comments. Fatal Execption I had originally suggested that he buy a router, but he was convinced by someone else that he didn't need to do this and it could be done with ICS.  So maybe I can convince him of this now.

I will try these out tonight.

Can I just seek clarification from Gen2003.  Does this diagram accurately reflect your suggestion.  

|ADSL MODEM|192.168.10.2<---->[DG:192.168.10.2]192.168.10.1|XP BOX|192.168.0.1<---->[DG:192.168.0.1]192.168.0.2|WIN98|

This makes a lot of sense to me, it is what I was expecting when I first set it up.  From memory though I think I was having a lot of trouble finding the ip address of the modem.  An ipconfig only supplied the configuration for the two NIC's on the XP box and not the details of the actual modem itself.
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by:Fatal_Exception
ID: 13722940
This is correct.  I missed the IP conflicts that were pointed out above, and Gen is right, so if you reconfigure it as that, you should be able to use ICS..  (BTW:  I never recommend using the MS Networking Wizard..  it is usually better to configure these yourself staticly).

The issue with ICS is threefold.  First, it is hard to manage.  Second, it takes up processing power and resources on the 'server'.  and third, Security...  meaning you are letting anyone from the outside come in uninvited...
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by:rcocker
ID: 13723403
Some further thoughts:

I should perhaps clarify that the ADSL modem is a router and uses NAT.  It is not possible to connect to both pc's into the router as it only has one ethernet connection.  Having cleared that up, here is the original configuration.

The NIC that connects to the ADSL Router has its ip address configured automatically.  It ends up with an ip address of 192.168.0.5 and a default gateway of 192.168.0.1.  This address (static) though is the NIC address on the XP box that connects to the internal network ie the Win98 box.  This does not make a lot of sense to me as it looks as though the NIC that connects to the ADSL modem is looking, not to the ADSL modem but to the other NIC that is part of the internal network.  However, the Internet connection works perfectly on this box.

I have redrawn the diagram to make it clearer, I hope.

The current set up is :

|ADSL MODEM|?<---->192.168.0.5 (auto assigned):[DG:192.168.0.1] |XP BOX|192.168.0.1<---->[DG:192.168.0.1]192.168.0.2|WIN98|

If someone can confirm that with this setup the Internet connection could not possibly be working, then perhaps I need to go back and double check all the settings.

Interestingly,  I removed the auto assigned ip address on the 192.168.0.5 card and set it up manually to these settings and the Internet connection did stop functioning.  Perhaps I have misread this setting.

I hope that the comments here and a 'fresh' pair of eyes will solve the problem.  I will let you know.

Thanks


Rodney
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by:rcocker
ID: 13723416
Can someone also clarify the DNS setting on the Win98 box.

Should I set this to 192.168.0.1 ie same as Default gateway ie NIC on XP box.  Or if I know the correct DNS address of the ISP (which I do), should I put these DNS addresses in the Win98 box.

Thanks


Rodney
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Expert Comment

by:Fatal_Exception
ID: 13723461
DNS is used for name resolution, and you must direct the DNS request to a DNS server..  that means that you must configure an internal DNS server that has forwarding enabled, OR use your ISP's DNS server address..  So, use your ISP's DNS server address....

Also, since we now know that the modem is acting as a router and is NATing the internal addresses, you can simply place a switch on the network and resolve all this in a few minutes..  (You can even put a Hub there, but that produces Collisions and I just don't recommend these Layer 2 devices)

FE
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Assisted Solution

by:Fatal_Exception
Fatal_Exception earned 1000 total points
ID: 13723480
If you still want to setup ICS...

|ADSL MODEM|192.168.0.1 <----> 192.168.0.5 (DHCP)/DG:192.168.0.1] |XP BOX|192.168.1.1 (255.255.255.0)<----> 192.168.1.2 (255.255.255.0)/DG:192.168.1.1|WIN98|

you need to keep your subnets separate.  These are Class C subnets, which are defined with the 255.255.255.0 Mask (Classful).  The mask separates the network from the node (client), and they need to be different on each side of your XP box.

FE
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by:nedvis
ID: 13723608
   "Or if I know the correct DNS address of the ISP (which I do), should I put these DNS addresses in the Win98 box."
    No, since Win98  box belongs to  C-class sub-network  ( 192.168.x.x/255.255.255.0 )  and wont be able to see IP adresses form A-class networks.

nedvis
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Accepted Solution

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Gen2003 earned 1000 total points
ID: 13724128
If your ADSL modem is a router with NAT you don't need to use XP as a router. Just plug LAN interface of ADSL to your HUB/Switch and use one network for all machines. Set DG on your computers to LAN interface of ADSL and DNS server to:

 If you have your own internal DNS server Then
          Point to it's address
 Else
          Point to ISP's DNS address (check with ISP if in doubt)

So it will be something like:

Internet <-> (Public address)ADSL(Private address 1, i.e. 192.168.0.x) <-> HUB/SWITCH <-> All your computers having addresses from network range of Private address 1 (192.168.0.x) with DG ADSL's LAN address. DNS as in algorithm.

P.S. Check with ADSL's manual - you probably have DHCP server on it. Try to use it as it will save your time in  the future.

Regards
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Expert Comment

by:crissand
ID: 13725963
If you use ICS, you have a dns emulator (forwarding only) and all other computers in the network can use it, you don't need to point to a real dns. But, as Gen2003 recommended (again!) why don't you use another topology, like this:

                 router
                     |
                 switch
                 ||||||
                computers

I think the router has internal dhcp server and will configure all computers tcp/ip properties.
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by:Fatal_Exception
ID: 13726163
:)  Or, like I mentioned above, a hub will even do...
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Expert Comment

by:crissand
ID: 13726336
Right, I see.
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Author Comment

by:rcocker
ID: 13740952
Hi  Guys,

Thanks everyone for all your comments many of them have been very helpful.  I will award points accordingly very soon.

In response to a different topology, this is what I had suggested to the client in the first place, but someone else advised him to do it through ICS.  I couldn't convince him otherwise.  When all these issues came up he relented.  But I did get it to work through ICS.  Here's how.

Despite creating two networks on the XP box and setting the default gateways, I could not get anything to work.  I tried all of the configurations above - to no avail.  ICS wouldn't work, so I turned off ICS and used XP to create a bridge between the two networks.  This solved the problem.  The end result:

|ADSL MODEM|192.168.0.1 <----> 192.168.0.5 (DHCP)/DG:192.168.0.1] |XP BOX|192.168.1.1 (255.255.255.0)<----> 192.168.1.2 (255.255.255.0)/DG:192.168.1.1|WIN98|

This on its own still failed to work with ICS turned off.  If I turned ICS on it forced my internal network to use 192.16.0.1 so I modified the settings thus:

|ADSL MODEM|192.168.0.10 <----> 192.168.0.5 (DHCP)/DG:192.168.0.10] |XP BOX|192.168.0.1 (255.255.255.0)<----> 192.168.0.2 (255.255.255.0)/DG:192.168.0.1|WIN98|

This still failed, so with these settings in place, I turned off ICS.  Then used XP to create a bridge btw the networks, the bridge combined my two XP NIC in to one with an address of 192.168.0.22 DG:192.168.0.10.  See below:

|ADSL MODEM|192.168.0.10 <----> 192.168.0.22 (DHCP)/DG:192.168.0.10] |XP BOX|192.168.0.22 (255.255.255.0)<----> 192.168.0.2 (255.255.255.0)/DG:192.168.0.10|WIN98|

This works perfectly.  I don't know much about XP and ICS.  I am more used to working in a 2K environment.  I suspect that XP was supposed to be creating a bridge between the two NIC's but was failing to do so.  I created it manually and did not have to use XP as the router because the modem is performing that job.

Thanks to all who contributed, I would not have gotten there without these comments.  Hope this post helps someone else in the future.



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by:Fatal_Exception
ID: 13741165
Very Good, glad you got it....   and thanks!

FE
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