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The difference between Novell Netware 6.5 clustering and Windows Server 2003 clustering?

I have used Windows server 2003, but not in depth and not used Novell Netware 6.5, and I was wondering what the difference between there clustering was.  I have been to both there web sites but I am finding it hard to find fact and figures.  Could some one please help me.

thanks
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hairypotter28
Asked:
hairypotter28
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1 Solution
 
PsiCopCommented:
You mean besides the fact that NetWare lacks Blue Screens of Death and vulnerability to the constant onslaught of malware from the 'Net? (And the assertion that Windoze is most-hacked because its most-widely-deployed is specious - Apache hosts 3x as many websites as IIS, but IIS is easily the most-hacked of the two; NetWare ships with Apache, Windoze with IIS - do the math).

In terms that can more easily be translated into a business impact or cost savings:

1) NetWare v6.5 ships with a two-node Clustering Services license *included*. You can install and use it, out of the box, no additional licensing charges (unless you want a cluster larger than 2 nodes). With Windoze, its an expensive add-on for any number of nodes. [Business Impact: Lower initial licensing costs]

2) NetWare licensing, indeed the licensing for practically *all* of Novell's products, is per-seat. There are no per-server or per-CPU licensing charges like you get slapped with on Windoze, and no draconian Licensing 6.0. [Business Impact: Lower on-going licensing costs]

3) Management of much of the Novell product environment is web-based (iManager), and rapidly becoming browser-agnostic. No MMC, no IE requirement, do it from whatever client platform *you* want to use. Windoze management is chained to the Windoze platform, MMC and IE - Redmond doesn't care what you want. [Business Impact: Ease of management reduces IT staff burden]

4) Novell Clustering Services operates on *both* Linux and NetWare - you can have a cluster with servers using both platforms, and migrate clustered services to any platform. Windoze clustering is available on....Windoze. If you want a Linux server to participate in the Windoze cluster, tough...Redmond doesn't want that. [Business Impact: Platform flexibility allows the organization to rapidly adapt to changing business needs]

5) TCO study after TCO study (the ones not financed by Redmond, anyway) has consistently shown that NetWare (and Linux/*NIX, for that matter) typically requires 1/2 to 1/3rd the hardware that Windoze chews up, to deliver the same services to the same client population. Look at the Nucleus Research "Heritage Oaks Bank" case-study, or better yet (complete with dollar figures) the Gartner Group "Westcorp Financial" case study, where the excessive hardware costs of Windoze were laid bare in unequivocal terms. [Business Impact: Less hardware requirements means lower capital outlay, less staff time to manage, lower hardware maintenance costs]

Is that the sort of info you need?
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mikeleebrlaCommented:
i think he was asking how their clustering differs. Not your opinion of which OS is better.  

If you have never used netware before you will have to factor in the time you will have to train yourself or get trained on the Netware operating system weeks/months of classes could cost you 1000s easily (not to mention lost time to you)

The answer to your question really depends on what you are going to be using the cluster for?
What kind of setup do you currently have? Do you have an existing windows domain?  If so if you add a netware server to it you will have to keep in mind that now you will have to keep up with 2 accounts for every user and now have TWO completely different OSs you will have to keep up to date knowledge on.  This will double your administrative time easily.  Also if you already have a windows domain setup and you go with Netware, now you will have to pay for 2 client licenses for every one of your users instead of one.  

Again,, we really need to know what you are ultimately trying to accomplish (are you trying to set up an email, file, www server or what in the cluster?)
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PsiCopCommented:
I think he was asking for current information on modern versions, not 10-year-old Redmond FUD.

"If you have never used netware before you will have to factor in the time you will have to train yourself or get trained on the Netware operating system weeks/months of classes could cost you 1000s"

And keeping current with Windoze magically costs no money? There's no time requirement involved for him to train himself, or get trained, on W2K3 or the clustering solution? NetWare is a significantly simpler NOS, both to install and manage than the Redmond bloatware. And he can download and install the whole thing, including Clustering, right this minute, and start learning, if that's what he needed to do.

"...if you add a netware server to it you will have to keep in mind that now you will have to keep up with 2 accounts for every user...."

No, not really. Using Novell's Identity Manager product, you can manage *both* environments thru eDirectory. Unlike AD, eDirectory is multi-platform, and Identity Manager can be used to tie together all sorts of other platforms and applications (e.g. OS/390, Oracle, Solaris, PeopleSoft). You only have to create a user ONCE - Identity Manager populates them everywhere else. Single point of administration, single point for changing passwords, etc.

"Also if you already have a windows domain setup and you go with Netware, now you will have to pay for 2 client licenses for every one of your users instead of one."

Or he could just migrate. Save a bundle of money in the long run. If vertical apps require the Windoze platform, fine, but that doesn't mean everything else has to reside there, too.
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mikeleebrlaCommented:
1.  10 year old Redmond FUD???/ i have no clue what you are talking about... you act as though i was recommending him using windows 95... that would be 10 year old stuff..... Windows 2003 is the latest product of the windows operating server system.

2.  if you read the post he already has windows 2003 experience. Learning a whole new OS from scratch would obviously cost more than training on ONE feature of an OS that your are already confortable with.

3.  so edirectory will manage EVERYTHING thru one console,, i doubt that.  can it manage exchange? no, so just like i said you will have to manage 2 sets of accounts.

again,,, he was asking for DIFFERENCES IN CLUSTERING,, which you haven't said ONE thing about.  giving your obviously biased opinion doesn't help him out one bit in this question. I currently manage both and they both have their pros and cons.  Netware is going away though however, they currenly only have 4% of server market share and it is projected that by the end of 2006 this will be a mere 1.3%. Netware used to have 70% but during the 90s windows blew them out of the water.  In fact, ive never heard of, nore done a windows to Netware migration, but netware to windows migrations are common.  In the middle of one currently as a matter of fact.

we really need to know what his current setup is AND what he is trying to do with this clustered server before.
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PsiCopCommented:
"3.  so edirectory will manage EVERYTHING thru one console,, i doubt that.  can it manage exchange? no, so just like i said you will have to manage 2 sets of accounts."

eDirectory alone? No, but I didn't say that. With Identity Manager, yes, it can.

"In fact, ive never heard of, nore done a windows to Netware migration,"

Central Michigan Hospital (USA). R W Bennett (UK public relations firm). Heritage Oaks Bank (California; dumped Windoze/Exchange for NetWare/GroupWise). W W Grainger (from Windoze/Notes to NetWare/GroupWise). And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head, without any research. Try looking past the BSODs popping up around you. Novell now offers all the services of NetWare atop Linux. Are you claiming that Linux going away?

"Windows 2003 is the latest product of the windows operating server system."

And its still using what's effectively NT 4 Domains. Its still a flat namespace, 2-D database; all they added was an extensible schema and transitivity to the trust relationships. There's no meaningful time synchronization, no effective data integrity mechanisms ("tombstones" are lame), and no partitioning ability. And GAMES on what is allegedly a SERVER?

We agree that knowing more about the current environment would be helpful, tho.
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steinmtoCommented:
Here is an overview of NCS Novell's clustering services.

http://www.novell.com/products/clusters/ncs/quicklook.html

It supports more servers than Microsoft.  But if you need support from an outside vendor it is getting thin.  We used to install both Novell and Microsoft but no one wants Novell anymore.  I think it is a good product but is a lot different if you are coming from a Windows environment. A coworker of mine was one of the first people to get a groupwise cluster to work and it worked great.

Here is some info on Clustering with MS servers.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/technologies/clustering.mspx

I have built two Windows Clusters.  One with exchange and one with file and print services.  It though it was fairly easy to setup.  MS only supports up to 8 servers and you have to purchase Enterprise or DataCenter to run clustering.  

BTW Novell crashes to on bad drivers just like Windows.
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steinmtoCommented:
Go to the Scalability section to see a comparison.

http://www.novell.com/collateral/4820947/4820947.html
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