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moire scanner EPSON 3200 PHOTO

Posted on 2005-04-26
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Last Modified: 2013-12-27
When I scan film, often get some moire. Epson software include moire filter doesn't work for it. Do you know why it happens and any way to remove that?
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Question by:Hiroyuki Tamura
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rudy_bagga earned 1000 total points
ID: 13868723
I use a Canon scanner but have experienced moire pattern problems as well.  Is the Epson moire filter you refer to utilized as a post processing filter or is it utilized in the scanning process.  I have found that it is much more difficult to get rid of moire patterns after the fact than to prevent them from happening in the first place.  The Canon acquisition software has the ability to invoke a functon called "descreen" as part of the scanning process.  It is designed to eliminate moire during the original scan.  Perhaps the Epson software has a similar function?

Moire patterns are an interferance patern set up by the fact that the image you are scanning, in this case film, is actually made up of a large number of tiny dots.  The scanner is acquiring the image as it's own set of tiny dots.  Since the spacing of these dots is not exactly identical, an interferance pattern is generated.  Take two pieces of window screen and look through them simultaneously.  You will see a moire pattern emerge.  This is the same physical penomomenon that produces the moire pattern in your scanned image.

Things to try:

Skew your image:  By slightly rotating the object you are scanning you can sometimes avoid pixels lining up in nice even rows.  Somtimes this helps but it is very trial and error.

Oversample the image:  Scan at the highest resolution possible.  The idea is to make your scan have massively more pixels than the original image thus avoiding the interferance pattern.  If the pattern still shows up it will be easier to remove using post processing filters.

Look for a "descreen" option in your acquisition software.  In the case of the Canon ScanGear Toolbox, you ghave to enable the "advance menu options" in order to find it.  Again, perhaps this is similar in the Epson Software?
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Expert Comment

by:lherrou
ID: 13869421
Hiroyuki718,

First of all, film crystal patterns are not uniform, so you should not be getting a moire pattern from that - there are no dots lined up in "nice even rows."

You don't mention film size, but often when you get a moire pattern when scanning film, it is because the film is flexing or sagging as it's scanned on the flatbed scanner. This is more likely if you are scanning film strips, 120/220 or 5 x 4 inches. Because 35mm slides have their mounts to support them, it isn't as much of a problem. It may also result from having the wrong side of the film facing down. Usually film has a curve to it, and if it curves down, it will sag more. So try placing your film curve-side up, even if you have to flip the images in software after scanning.

Also, just to make sure, you are using the "transparency" settings on your scanner and removing the white reflective mat when scanning film, right? I have seen semi-successful scans of film from the reflected light shining through the film, hitting the mat, and bouncing back, and typically these will have a circular or curving moire pattern from the light reflected from the surface of the slide as well.

Last, but not least, be sure to allow a few minutes of warm-up time for the light in the lid to reach full spectrum and brightness before scanning.

If nothing mentioned above helps, you may also have a hardware problem. Epson is usually reasonable when it comes to exchanges, just remember when you make an exchange, you are generally getting a refurbished scanner for your "new" one. Doesn't matter, since you wouldn't be doing it if your scanner worked as it was supposed to, but once it a while they didn't really fix the root problem that it was set back for in the first place.

If you have a sample and access to a website, you can also post a link here, and we may be able to diagnose the problem further from the image.

Cheers,
LHerrou
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Expert Comment

by:Watzman
ID: 13899346

Usually moire is a problem when scanning newspaper or magazines, but not film or actual photographs.  See if, separate from the moire filter, there is a "descreen" function, and try that if it exists.
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 13926565
i've used descreen function, but didn't work. could be hardware problem.
if i am going to buy film scanner, which one would you recommend?
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 13926596
this is getting different question, but are there any film scanner scan 4x6 film automatically, like have a rail and it i can slide in several films at same time.
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LVL 38

Expert Comment

by:lherrou
ID: 13928854
Here's some reviews and resources for film scanners:
http://www.scantips.com/chap3.html
http://www.imaging-resource.com/SCAN1.HTM
http://www.flatbed-scanner-review.org/35mm_slide_film_scanners/35mm_film_slide_scanners.html and
http://www.cameras-scanners-flaar.org/Nikon_35mm_slide_scanner/35mm_slideScanner_gateway.html
http://www.ephotozine.com/equipment/tests/index.cfm?prodselect=2

I have had the best success with Nikon and Konica/Minolta myself.

I doubt you are going to find an auto-feeder for 4X5 film in anything like a consumer price-range.

Cheers,
LHerrou
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 14276254
thank you!!
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 15031903
i'm still trying to remove moire... this is the jpg...
please take a look... any advice?

http://www.angelakello.com/hiro/Snap3.jpg
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 15031932
here is another one... always it appears center...
http://www.angelakello.com/hiro/Snap4.jpg
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Expert Comment

by:lherrou
ID: 15032763
What size file are you scanning, and if it's not 35mm, how are you placing it on the scanner?
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 15032776
300 dpi TIFF and 4"x5" film
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 15032860
> how are you placing it on the scanner?
placing with tray.
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LVL 38

Expert Comment

by:lherrou
ID: 15032910
And using the supplied  4 x 5 film holder? Have you scanned any other material which has this pattern? It may be a problem with the scanner, but I still think you may be getting sagging in the middle of your film.

Suggestion 1) Try putting the film flat on the flatbed, use the file holder as a mask and to hold it in position, and see how that comes out.
Suggestion 2) Flip the film over, scan it wrong way around, and then flip the image in your imaging program after you've scanned it, and see if that helps with film sag or reflectivity.
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 15033612
i contacted support and got an answer...

MOIRE is an unintended and distracting pattern that occurs when two or more halftone screens are overlapping at the wrong angle. Most of the times this issue can be resolved by selecting the DE-SCREENING option within the Epson Twain driver.  In the Epson TWAIN, click on IMAGE TYPE and set DE-SCREENING to ON.  If this does not resolve the issue, there are a few things that you can also do:
1) Flip the negative over.
2) Rotate the negative.
3) Scan at a different resolution (try higher first).
4) Place a piece of glass on the negative to ensure that it lays flat to the glass for better scanning (this is done generally for Newton's rings but may help here too).
5) Remove the negatives out of the template (holders) and place them directly onto the TPU. Not only are negatives affected by this, but newsprints may also be affected. If the moire effect is unavoidable, using filters in PhotoShop (Despeckle, Dust and Scratches, etc.) or another similar program may help to diminish the effect.

i'll try them and see what's gonna happen.
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LVL 38

Expert Comment

by:lherrou
ID: 15033742
Well, certainly in your first example, you were getting Newton's rings - not as clear, but seems likely in your second one as well. Sounds like a couple of their suggestions match up with my thinking - I'd try their #1, #4, & #5 as my first attempt.
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 15033763
when i flipped, it disappear... color is dark though...
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Author Comment

by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 15089112
> 4) Place a piece of glass on the negative to ensure that it lays flat to the glass for better scanning (this is done generally for Newton's rings but may help here too).

do you knwo where i can buy glass?
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LVL 38

Expert Comment

by:lherrou
ID: 15089128
How about "borrowing" a piece from a picture frame? Make sure it's good and clean.
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