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Ghost a Dual Boot drive to a larger hard drive?

Dear Experts,

I am trying to use Ghost 9.0 to copy a dual boot hard drive from a small 14 gig hard drive to a larger 40 gig hard drive.

The target drive is in a second hard drive adapter and shows up as D:\ and E:\  in My Computer.

First the source drive has:
Windows 98 SE on the C:drive which is formatted in FAT 32
Windows XpPro on the D:drive which is formatted in NTFS

The target drive was partitioned as follows using Partition Majic
Partition 1 or D:\is a primary partition set to be active and formatted to a 6 gig size and formatted FAT 32
Partition 2 or E:\is a logical drive formated as NTFS and set as a primary partition but not Active.

Ghost 9.0 was loaded on the Xp drive and the project was conducted using the Xp operating system using the Copy drive Wizzard.

I have been through the process many times and many ways and have still not been able to get a working dual boot 40 gig drive.
Good news is that I have not hurt my original drive, it still works fine.
Bad news is I have not been able to get a bootable drive out of all my efforts.

so I am here looking for a little help from the Experts.

Thomas from Monroe, Wisconsin
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TomStarich
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TomStarich
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2 Solutions
 
TomStarichAuthor Commented:
When I try to boot the computer I get the error message

NTLDR is missing
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slow1000Commented:
On the version of Ghost I use (I believe its from 2003), I have to boot ghost from cd or floppy and execute gdisk /mbr from the command line to reinitialize the boot record.

Hope this helps.
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slow1000Commented:
One more detail, you have to specify which physical drive from 1 to 8 that you want the above command executed on.

gdisk disk /mbr

Where "disk" is a number between 1 and 8 that represents your drive.

So the command usually is

gdisk 1 /mbr
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LongbowCommented:
You need to Sysprep your XP before duplicating your drive :
http://support.microsoft.com/search/default.aspx?spid=3223&query=sysprep&catalog=LCID%3D2057&pwt=false&title=false&kt=ALL&mdt=0&comm=1&ast=1&ast=2&ast=3&mode=a

Sysprep is on your distribution CD\Support\Tools\Deploy.cab
The documentation is in ref.chm.

You will have many problems because XP use WPA (Windows Product Activation)
XP remember on wich disk it has been installed :
http://support.microsoft.com/search/default.aspx?spid=3223&query=wpa&catalog=LCID%3D2057&pwt=false&title=false&kt=ALL&mdt=0&comm=1&ast=1&ast=2&ast=3&mode=a

Also have a dos boot floppy disk to activate your first partition after ghost
 has finish cloning the new drive.
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slow1000Commented:
If you are simply cloning the drive for use in the same system, you shouldn't have to deal with sysprep so long as it is the only copy of that clone on your network.

WPA will not be a problem if this is the only hardware component you change.  (You can usually change 3 or 4 before you have to worry about activation.)

If either of these assumptions are violated, though, then you should check out the links that longbow provided.  

Good luck (from not that far away -- I'm near Milwaukee)
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Seelan NaidooMicrosoft Systems AdminCommented:
Use ghost, but do a patition to partition ghost, instead of a drive to drive ghost.

Creat your partitions on your new hard drive.

run ghost (DOS mode) select options to do Partition to Partition ghost
Select you 1st partition and ghost it to the 1st partition of the bigger hard drive.

Once, completed, test the new ghosted partition image by booting, and checking if successful..

Once verified..

Run ghost again (DOS Mode), and now select your 2nd partition and ghost to 2nd partition of bigger drive..
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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
Dear Experts,

I am still with the question, please understand I am indeed cloning the dual boot drive for the same computer. I should not have to deal with sysprep as I understand from reading above. In my latest attempt I used Ghost 9.0 and the copy drive wizzard and copied each partition separately.

When I tried the drive I got the NTLDR is missing.

I tried to put in the ghost boot disk I created and after loading ghost.exe I was not able to find the command line to  try gdisk 1 /mbr.

Thomas
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slow1000Commented:
I will try to look at Ghost 9 to see how to get to the command line if I have time later today.  

You could try booting the system with a boot floppy made from Windows XP, just in case the boot.ini file is misconfigured (if the new hard drive is showing up differently) or in the event that ntldr is failing to copy.  

To make an XP boot cd, copy these files from a Windows XP installation to a formatted floppy.

Boot.ini
NTLDR
Ntdetect.com
and include Bootsect.dos and Ntbootdd.sys files if they are present.

These files are hidden and system, so you will have to make them visible to copy them to the floppy.

You can then try booting the drive with the floppy.  


If this doesn't work, you could change the locations that the boot.ini file is referencing.

Your boot.ini file might look like this, with an additonal line for windows 98 at the bottom.

   [boot loader]
   timeout=30
   Default= multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows

   [operating systems]
   multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\windows="Windows XP"


You can add additional lines to end of the boot.ini file and try each one in case XP is located somewhere else.  You could do this after you copy the boot.ini file to the floppy.  Do the copy, then edit the file to add these lines, or other similar combinations


multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows="Windows XP"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\windows="Windows XP"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\windows="Windows XP"
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Seelan NaidooMicrosoft Systems AdminCommented:
Norton Ghost 9.0 does NOT support Windows 9x [Thats why they included Ghost 2003 with Ghost 9.0]

Norton Ghost 9.0 supports only Microsoft® Windows® 2000/XP,
Norton Ghost 2003 is included for users of Windows® 9x/Me and Windows NT®.

That should clear things up..

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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
SeanUK777

I think your right about Ghost 9.0 not supporting Windows 98. The one time I came close to getting this job done was when I used Ghost 2003 to move the 98 partition over to the new drive. At least it then booted in 98.  Then I used Ghost 9.0 to move the Xp partition over to the new hard drive, the new hard drive would boot in 98 and stall on the start up screens of Xp when I tried to boot in Xp. Symantec techs said it was because i used two different versions of ghost to do the job. I had used the old ghost 03 to move the 98 partition and the new Ghost 9 to move the Xp partition. Does Ghost 2003 support Xp?

I was on the phone with Symantec last night and I ran into a tech that seemed skilled in using boot disks dos and editing the boot.ini. When he had tried all his options like copying a new MSDOS.SYS and a new IO.SYS from a boot disk over to the problem partition we were still getting a NTLDR is missing error. I noticed he used an attrib command on the MSDOS.SYS and the IO.SYS as follows prior to copying them over.

He did the following

First he had me download a 98SE boot disk from boot disk.com
Then he had me go to the boot disk and
did  a:\attrib -h -r -s  msdos.sys
then copyied the msdos.sys from A:\  to c:

Then a:\attrib -h -r -s on IO.sys
then copied the io.sys from a:\ to c:


SeanUK777 I did also try to do the Ghost on a partition by partition basis as you recommended.

Slow1000 I noticed the tech helped me to try other boot.ini configurations as you suggested above.

specifically he had me change the multi disk strings so they read partition(1) and not partition(2)
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)

At this point I am still getting a NTLDR is missing error and no booting on the new disk.
I checked the new disk and found the NTLDR file is on the first partition this seemed odd.

Thank you for staying with me and watching this story progress. All of your help is greatly appreciated. I wish there were a way to give thoes who stay with this a few more points. I do believe with presistance we will get answers. It seems like I may need to give you more specific information like the fdisk profile of the partitions and the boot.ini contents. If you have any questions please ask and I can provide information you request.

Thomas Starich
Monroe WI
Cow Country.

Thomas Starich
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Seelan NaidooMicrosoft Systems AdminCommented:
no problem, sharing is knowledge and knowledge is power!

Ghost 2003 does support Windows XP as well.
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slow1000Commented:
Just curious, did you try booting with a Windows XP boot disk?  If that works, it would tell us something about where the problem is.

I described the process, but here is the MS knowledgebase article describing the process:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=305595
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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
I worked with another Symantec technician from India tonight...
They tried amost everything possible including

Installation of Ghost 2003 then the following cloning was tried. on Disk 2 E: and F:
Disk 1 C: and D: to-->Disk 2 E: and F:         which resluted in a Abort 11030 Invalid Destination drive
Disk 1 Partition C: to -->Disk 2 Partition E:   which resulted in Abort Source and Target Partition Identical

Then Partition magic was used on Disk 2 and one big Fat 32 partiton was made.
The resultant drive was Disk 2 E:
To this drive the following was attempted
Disk 1 C: to --> Disk 2 E:                            Which resulted in Abort 11086 Source and Target partition identical.

Then Partition Magic was used to delete all partitions on Disk 2 and another
Disk to Disk cloning was tried this time it resulted in Abort 11030 Invalid Destination Drive.

Now get this for several hours the patient technician tried everything including sitting through rebootings and checking with the more senior Symantec tech on what to do next... No good results. We were not even able to get the cloning process to start, and get this Even with Symantec the makers of Ghost technical support.....

Sounds like questionable product to me because so far even with the tech support from India beating their heads against their cows we can't get anywhere.

When it was finally time to get rid of me the old "We would like you to Defragment your drives" did the trick.
This is very interesting indeed. but still no results.

Does all this have to do with cloning the Xp drive to another drive that is on my computer.
I had elected to try other things before considering Sysprep more seriously but now Hmm perhaps sysprep is the answer?

What do you think?

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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
slow1000

When you say boot with a Windows Xp boot disk. Do you mean I should download somekind of a Boot Floppy from
bootdisk.com I don't have a windows Xp boot floppy.  I may be able to boot the computer up in some way by using my Windows Xp CD.... My fear is at this point I am sounding so dumb My question will be abandoned entirely.

Thomas
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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
Slow1000
I just saw your reference to the knowledge base article on how to use the Xp boot disk.... I will check it out.
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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
Slow1000,

I made some progress.....
I was able to clone the 98 and the Xp partition over to the new hard drive and the boot process works to start both 98 and xp. A problem occurs on the new disk where the Windows stalls on the splash screen just before the fast user switching logon screen appears.

Basically Windows appears to start normally you see the black and white progress bar followed by the searching blue dot bar then the first windows splash screen appears (the one with the dark blue bars on top and bottom that has the windows logo centered on a light blue background)

but the next thing that is supposed to happen.....
The appearance of the screen with the user name box used to log on never comes..

The above mentionted screen (the one with the dark blue bars on top and bottom that has the windows logo centered on a light blue background) is all the farther the process go's

Also a mouse pointer does also show up. Ctrl Alt Delete does not bring up the task manager
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slow1000Commented:
Good.  At least we know the problem is no longer just the boot settings.  Does Windows 98 start up completely?  (I think you only described a problem with xp.)

1. Have you tried booting into safe mode with xp (use f8 just as as windows starts up [just before the black/white progress bar])?

If it can boot into safe mode, perhaps you can repair it from there.  (This might be especially appropriate if any other hardware was changed when you changed the disk.)

2. Try booting into the recovery console on the Windows XP disk and use chkdsk /r (check disk) to see if the newly cloned hard drive didn't copy right.  If the clone didn't copy just right, the file system may be corrupted, causing xp to fail.

3. As a last ditch effort, it might be possible to do a repair install on Windows xp to repair it, since at least the system is there now.

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slow1000Commented:
a (probably not relevant) anecdote:

I once had a system that was severely fragmented.  After successfully running windows defragmenter several times, I tried to clone it.  It would not work no matter what I did. I tried using three different programs , including ghost, and every possible configuration.  I almost threw that system out my (3rd floor) window.  I've always wanted to do that to a windows system :)

Eventually, I got the system to clone after using diskeeper with boot time directory defragmentation and chkdsk-ing the system before.  So if your system was ever severely fragmented, or the system has been in use for some time, you could have directory fragmentation (that windows defragmenter does not address at all).  If you think this might be the case, you could download diskeeper's trial version and try it out on your source system.  You would need to set it up to do a boot time defragmentation, including chkdsk and directory consolidation.

http://www.execsoft.com/diskeeper/diskeeper.asp
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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
slow1000

Longbow was correct right from the start. I just did not understand what

"XP remember on wich disk it has been installed"

meant.

Apparently when you install Xp on a disk drive it recognizes what drive it was installed on. Perhaps the drive has a serial number or some identifier that the operating system image "remembers" or copies to itself.

When you move the image to another drive you in effect move an image that is identified as belonging to drive A on to Drive B...

Then the dam thing won't boot.

Sysprep is my next step in my quest.

If longbow is correct and I think he was.

We should be able to sysprep the drive an get a good result.
Well tommorrow is another day.

Talk to you after I finish with the Sysprep and reclone the drive.

That will be tommorrow.
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slow1000Commented:
One technique that might help that is simpler than using sysprep (although you might as well go all out and use sysprep) is deleting the listed drive letter for the destination drive in the source system's registry.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices\DosDevices\E:

or whatever the drive letter is.

You can see this kb article

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;223188

chances are, you won't have to do the 1st part with regedt32, permissions are usually good on xp.  

Uninstall the drive destination drive in device manager for good luck, then run ghost in interactive dos mode since it won't be able to see it within windows anymore.

Depending on the setup, this lets windows identify the new drive as the system (C:?) drive instead of a secondary drive.
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slow1000Commented:
One more thing, regardless of the method you use, make sure the original drive is not connected to the system when you reboot after cloning.  Even for sysprepped drives, the system will be confused, and think nothing has changed.
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slow1000Commented:
Sorry, I apologize, I am going through all my system cloning notes on drive letters and keep on finding new things.

If you change this key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\Current Version\Winlogon\Userinit:Reg_SZ:C:\WINNT\system32\userinit.exe

to:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\Current Version\Winlogon\Userinit:Reg_SZ:userinit.exe

This will help windows xp get past the stage it hung at before, and you can usually then log on and follow the procedure here if the problem is due to drive letter misidentification.  

Then you could use this reference if you can log on, despite confused drive letters:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;223188

Why does Microsoft insist on using absolute paths!!
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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
slow1000,

Is my system hanging because the clone was made while the target drive was in the second hard drive adapter (disk 2 as seen by Partition Magic)?

Is the system hanging because the target drive was called F: when I cloned over to it from D: and yet the drive is really going back into the disk 1 position?

I am interested in getting on the same page with you but don't quite understand the importance of the above registry changes as they relate to my situation.

Because I was concerned that I was making clones to a drive in the wrong location..... I decided to play a trick.
1st I noticed things worked better if I copied the drives using partition majic. I wanted all the properties of the target partitions to be exactly the same.
I played it safe and copied exactly the partitions as they were on the source drive. Then I took images of the soruce drives c: and d: and put them on another drive attatched to the system. Finally I put the target drive in disk 1 position where c: and d: normally were and copied the images back to the partitions.

The resutl was the same.. Xp would stall just before log in.    I got desparate.. I ran a repair on the newly made disk using my Windows Xp CD and low and behold the system booted up fine an my user name appeared so I could log on.

Please tell me more about these registry keys. you mention above. I would be willing to go back to the point before the repair was made and try it again your way to experiment just to learn.

Thomas Starich
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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
Slow1000

I found I cound not uninstall software on the completed drive... The computer was looking for the uninstall information on the drive letter D: the image came off of and my drive letter on the finished drive was F:

Just for giggles after I got Xp to boot by running a repair, I took Partition Magic and changed the drive letter on the Xp drive to E and low and behold no boot. D was already taken by the cd rom drive.

To no ones suprise,,, The drive fails to boot in exactly the same way as before (just before the log on screen)

I need a trick to get the drive letters for the target partitions exactly the same as the original drive before I move the images on to target partitions.
On Sunday I am going to see if Partiton majic offers me the chance to boot off the partition magic cd and change the drive letter to what ever I want it to be.

I think were getting close now. I see your on to the same idea but through the use of changing the registry. I think your idea will work but I would be a lyer if I didn't admit I don't understand it.

Thomas Starich

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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
I was finally successful at cloning my dual boot drive after 3 weekends.

I was cloning a Dual Boot drive that had Win98 on the first partition C: and Xp on the second partition D:

I was using Ghost.exe from a ghost floppy to do the imaging.

The purpose of my cloning was to move to a larger hard drive.

This article was critical
http://ghost.radified.com/ghost_4.htm


One of the grey commentary boxes stated in the link above http://ghost.radified.com/ghost_4.htm said to make sure you don't press the reset button after you clone the disk.

Here are my steps

1) Prepare the target disk by booting from the CD of Partition Magic, and putting the drive your preparing in the Master location on your computer. This is done to insure the drive partitions your preparing take a C: and D: name for the partitions because those are the drive names that were used on the images your cloning from. For my work I created a 7Gig Fat 32 partition labeled as primary and set active for the windows 98SE, and a 33Gig Extended NTFS partition for the Xp  

If the source drive you prepare has been labeled with and E or F partition the Xp image you load on it may never boot because the source image came from a partition labeled as the D Drive. (You can verify this by just using partition magic to change the drive letter on a working Xp partition. Changing the drive letter will really screw up the disk and it will stall on boot up.

2) Place the target drive in the Master location. Put the source drive in the slave location.
3) Use a Ghost.exe floppy and take an image of the whole source disk including both partitions and copy it over to the target disk.

*At this point the disk still won't work. The Win 98Se partition will boot but the *Xp partition will stall

4) Take an image of just the Xp portion of your source drive using Ghost and save it to a safe location on another hard drive like a USB Hard Drive or similar.

Leave the Target Disk in the Master Location and Restore the Xp Image to the NTFS partition on your Target Drive. USE A Ghost 2003 the GHOST.EXE floppy to do the restore.

(RIGHT OVER THE TOP OF THE XP Image that was stalling when it was booted up as written/mentioned above*)

5) After the image has copied to your target drive DON'T Press the Reset button on the Ghost control panel.

Just disconnect second hard drive and shut down the computer by using the power switch. This hard shut down won't hurt your computer because you’re working within a DOS environment where settings don't need to get saved.

Reboot your dual hard drive and both partitions will boot up just fine.

My Method was brute strength and awkwardness and if someone can explain why it worked I would award points for that explanation as well.

Exactly why or how this works is not completely understood by me. But here are my thoughts
You cannot load an Xp image to a partition that has a different letter that the one from which the image came from.
You cannot finish the Ghost 2003 Sequence and hit reset. Or have two Xp operating systems connected to the system when you reboot.
The step of disconnecting the source drive and shutting off the power seems critical to the process.

SysPrep may address all these problems but what SysPrep does to your original drive I DON'T Know and I kind of like to hold my cards and keep my original drive working until the second clone is complete. You can never recover your original drive if you start screwing around with SysPrep.

The Symantec Technicians for Ghost at this point work very hard to try to assist you in cloning drives but they did not know how to do a dual boot drive and the best answer they could finally give me was to simply reload the system. That answer was not acceptable.

Slow1000 and others contributed and stayed with me through the process and I thank them from the bottom of my heart. Awarding points will not be easy because everyone above contributed to my success. Slow1000 should get a lion’s share of points as well as the long that suggested using SysPrep. But I need to think about this a little bit before awarding points.  I would appreciate some comments from the experts as to how and why my method worked.





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slow1000Commented:
First, congratulations on getting it to work, I admire your persistence.  Also, thanks for your positive feedback.  I wish I could have been more helpful.  This was one of those cases where I wish I could have actually been there to do something (even if it's just to give the computer a good kick).

 My guess is that your method above suceeded since it did not give Windows a chance to mess up the drive letters.  Most of the problems with cloning windows seem to come down to the bios not finding the system to boot it (locations are moved or boot info is past block 1024) or are due to changed drive letters, which then confuses windows.

What made the problem especially difficult was having two windows installs, creating double the opportunites for confusion.

Hopefully, Longhorn will have a better method of dealing with drive letters (Eliminate them or at least minimize their importance for the system itself).




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LongbowCommented:
You said : "Exactly why or how this works is not completely understood by me. But here are my thoughts
You cannot load an Xp image to a partition that has a different letter that the one from which the image came from."
So you understand well the problem.
It would be better than XP can work in the Linux way, not using driver letters.
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TomStarichAuthor Commented:
There is alot of good information posted by Slow, Longbow, SeanUK777 for thoes who follow and try to ghost a dual boot drive, I suggest you take time to read all the posts because there are clues along the way in these posts, that may help you, as they helped me, to come to a successful resolution of ...

How to Clone a Dual Boot Drive to a larger hard drive.

Thank you all for your assistance and I hope you have a very good Day!

Thomas Starich
Monroe, WI
Cow Country
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