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GroupWise Post Office size

1.  
I am currently running GroupWise 6.  I am preparing to migrate to Exchange 2003.
How do I determine my Post Office size for migration?
Also, the co. that I work for is insistant on keeping every message that was ever sent on the internet.  How do I reduce the size of my PO to make the migration go faster and easier.  (For example our CEO has over 50,000 messages in his account with attachments)

2.  Anyone have an idea of how much Quest costs for their GW to EX2003 Migration tool?

thanks
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Indy_IT_Admin
Asked:
Indy_IT_Admin
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2 Solutions
 
PsiCopCommented:
1) Sorry to hear that you're going to migrate to an environment that will easily double, or even triple, your costs per mailbox per month. Nothing like switching from GroupWise to an environment that will make your enterprise instantly vulnerable to practically every bit of mal-ware on the 'Net. Enjoy paying for a CAL *and* an Exchange seat per mailbox, paying per-server and per-CPU charges that you don't have to pay now, and paying for clustering ability that ships with GroupWise. Have fun on Patch Tuesday, explaining to your boss why you have to take the whole mailsystem down for repairs/maintenance that you could do on-the-fly in GroupWise, and whenever some staffer takes home a laptop and brings back whatever his Little Johnny managed to infect it with - now your servers will be vulnerable, too. Don't worry, tho - your company's competitors are probably making better business decisions than locking the Licensing 6.0 yoke around their necks and giving up flexibility to choose the best platforms and tools for the job.

a) Post Office Size - Depends on the context you're asking that question in. If you want to get a fair estimate of the size on disk, then go to the Post Office directory and examine the Properties of the OFUSER (user databases), OFMSG (main message stores) and OFFILES (attachments). Total the "Bytes on Disk" for those directories (and their sub-directories) and you'll have a pretty good idea of the total storage presently being consumed.

Which almost certainly will bear little resemblance to the storage that will be needed under Exchange. Its hard to say with any certainty, but a reasonable SWAG would be to multiply that storage requirement by 2x or even 3x under Exchange.

If you're asking "How many mailboxes do I have?", then go to the Post Office object in ConsoleOne and right-click and select Properties.

b) Reducing size - Depends on how brutal you want to be. In ConsoleOne, select the Post Office and right-click and go to GroupWise Utilities and then select Mailbox Maintenance (I think - I'm doing this from memory because I'm not in front of my GroupWise system right now). Among the options in the pull-down towards the top of the resultant dialog box you'll find "Expire/Reduce", I think (again, operating from memory).

"Expire" lets you mark as "deleted" messages fitting the criteria you select. Size, age, attachments, etc. These messages will vanish from the user's mailbox, but will not actually be removed from the mailstore until the mailstore is compressed, or "Reduced". "Reduce" removes messages marked as "deleted" from the message stores and compress the databases to recover the storage space. All while the system is running (have fun trying that under your new system).

How much you can "Expire" and then "Reduce" is a question more of politics, I imagine, than anything else. I doubt the CEO would appreciate 45,000 messages suddenly vanishing, but might as well start getting him used to the new environment.

2) Whatever it is, its prolly gonna be far less than Exchange will cost your company in the long run. Why worry about the thorn in your left foot when you're getting ready to shoot your right foot with a Colt .45?
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waybadmojoCommented:
I also am sorry to hear that your CEO has chosen to migrate away from GroupWise.

That being said, having migrated multiple clients from GroupWise to other mail systems (4 of 6 have since switched back) in my career and here's some advice I can share:

Migrating from GW to Exchange:

Be prepared to lose data:

* All shared data and folders will be lost
* 50% of your archived mail will be unusable or empty after a migration
* Post office sizes increase in storage requirements by 525% on average for environments with retention limits. Without retention limits I would err on the side of 10x the storage requirements of your GW system (this is most likely you). If you have a 20 GB post office, be prepared to dedicate 200+ GB to your Exchange post office if you are expected to maintain all mail.

Some tips:

* Expect to perform 4x as much maintenance on your server/post office than previously
* Beware that MS reserves the right to charge you more for your mailboxes at a later date
* BACK up your GW system prior to begining ANY step of the migration
* Do NOT use the coexistence method of migration, it will merely prolong your agony
* Novell makes a better gateway to work with Exchange than MS does
* Make sure that your GWIA is set to expand groups, otherwise you will lose distribution list information
* Make 100% sure that you have a bulletproof anti-viral/worm/trojan scanner in place between the internet and your SMTP gateway because you WILL get hit using exchange.

If you scratch together a basic plan, we'd be happy to help you flesh it out, even though we feel bad for you.

-Mojo

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waybadmojoCommented:
Sorry, forgot your second question:
In quantities over 1000, Quest's product runs ~$15 per mailbox, less than 1000 I believe it runs in the $18-20 range.

-Mojo
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PsiCopCommented:
Wow. 10x storage. Thanks, 'mojo. Looks like my SWAG was low - I was giving Exchange too much credit.
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Indy_IT_AdminAuthor Commented:
Well, so much for unbiased help.  I wasn't really looking for a comparison just some help with some unknowns.

Since we are at that point however here is my 2 cents.

Much to the contrary Exchange can be worked on while maintenance is performed.
As far as paying for two licenses we use MS Office which includes Outlook i.e. my user CAL.
As far as security goes that is just as weak as the security/network admin.  Button the wholes, tighten down the firewalls and close the unused ports and most of that junk can be kept out of any system be it GW, Lynix, or EX.

What does intrigue me and has me curious is the difference in  storage requirements.  I have only seen in "Techno babble" / forums that the size increases.  I would like to see that in two or three reputable websites.  Also is this something that MS admitts to or something that Novell ppl tout from experience/word of mouth only?

My OFFILES, OFUSER, & OFMSG add up to 80GB.  
From your descriptions I will need 160GB to 420GB just for my Exchange store which is a big difference.  160GB is no problem but 420 would be.  Any clairfication here on actual size difference?
Please explain "Beware that MS reserves the right to charge you more for your mailboxes at a later date".
What are your recommendations on AV software?  I have been looking at Symantec Enterprise and Trend Micro.
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Indy_IT_AdminAuthor Commented:
I meant to say Exchange can be up and running while maintance and repairs are performed.
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waybadmojoCommented:
It sounds like you are fairly comfortable with what Exchange has to offer you, so those of us that have seen the light on the GW side of the fence aren't going to be able to convince you, we're just extolling the virtues of the product BEFORE you switch, rather than 'I told you so' afterwards.

A migration from GW to Exchange (using Outlook) WILL make you infinitely more vulnerable to WORM attacks, don't fool yourself into thinking that you will be able to fully protect your Outlook clients. Note that while we all fear the Outlook client, we all give props where they are due to the Exchange message system (I want the Exchange address book in my GW systems badly!), but unless you can chain your users down and never let them browse, using Outlook is like putting a big red bullseye on your enterprise.

For space requirements: The migration from GroupWise to Exchange is going to create duplicates of each and every attachment or document reference contained within your GW system. GroupWise stores 1 copy of a message per post office, regardless of the size and distribution. During the migration, Exchange will need to create a copy of this attchment for each mailbox that references it.  

20 MB attachment x 100 post office users on GroupWise = 20 MB of storage
20 MB Attachment x 100 post office users on Exchange = 2 GB of storage

While this is most likley an extreme example, these are the types of things that you need to be aware of and every migration is different, because storage needs are different everywhere you go..

Regarding the pricing of your Exchange mailboxes, read your Exchange and Server EULAs, MS pricing and licensing agreements have everyone running to talk to their Linux vendors....

For AV software, I've used both the Symantec and McAfee solutions and both do their jobs well as enterprise protetction suites, but I love the SurfControl Mail Scanner software as my SMTP virus /SPAM defense tool. You can get details at http://www.surfcontrol.com .


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PsiCopCommented:
Just because the advice isn't what you want to hear doesn't make it biased.

If you're comfortable with the single-vendor lock-in of Exchange, and don't mind losing the ability to choose the platform or solution that best meets your business needs, by all means, rip out everything and put in Redmond's products.

My view is that in the modern business environment, the ability to change and adapt is crucial to business success. Redmond does everything they can to take that abulity away from you, to lock you into their platform, their environment, and make it prohibitively expensive to break free.

Your GroupWise environment offers your freedom you simply won't get with Exchange:

Platform

GroupWise - CHOICE of 2 different flavors of Linux, Solaris, NetWare and Windows
Exchange - NO CHOICE

Web Server (for Web Access)

GroupWise - CHOICE of Apache, Netscape, IIS
Exchange - NO CHOICE

Directory Service

GroupWise - CHOICE of eDirectory or any LDAP v3-compliant directory environment
Exchange - NO CHOICE (literally, since AD isn't really a directory service, its just the same old tired NT4 Domains, just with a 3-D viewer - still a 2-D environment/flat namespace, extensible schema and transitive trust)

*Native* Client

GroupWise - CHOICE of Linux, Mac, PalmOS and Windows (including PPC)
Exchange - Finally, a choice of Mac and Windows

If you think having no choices is a benefit for your business, have fun.
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Indy_IT_AdminAuthor Commented:
Is there a way in GW to check each mailbox for size?
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waybadmojoCommented:
You can run maintenance through ConsoleOne and choose the Mailbox Statistics option, this will give you detailed numbers for each mailbox on your post office.

-Mojo
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PsiCopCommented:
Yes, in ConsoleOne, browse to the Post Office, right-click on the Post Office object, select GroupWise Utilities, Mailbox/Library Maintenance - this opens the integrated maintenance tool (a standlone version, GWCHECK.EXE, is in the software distribution directory of the primary Domain).

From the "Action" pulldown, select "Mailbox statistics". Also, click on the "Logging" tab and check "Verbose Logging". Then click "Run". The results will arrive (how long it takes depends on Post Office size, system load, etc) in the mailbox(es) of the user(s) designated as "Administrators" in GroupWise.
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Indy_IT_AdminAuthor Commented:
Dumb Question.
How do I designate Administrators in GroupWise?
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Indy_IT_AdminAuthor Commented:
When I go to Memberships I have the following groups:

DNSDHCP-GROUP
Everyone
Execuives
NotronAVadmin
NortonAVuser
SMS SMDR Group
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