JAVA?

To all you JAVA fanatics...Just a simple curiosity of mine..

How do you think the internet would look like without JAVA?  Whats your take on this?  







ZACKYJONESKIAsked:
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dr_binksCommented:
this kind of sounds like homework to me.
suprapto45Commented:
Hi,

The internet would still be there though Java is disappear. However, all the JSP web site will be disappear too such as experts exhange ;). The biggest impact would be on the enterprise level intranet which uses Java as their programming languages.

The mobile app would also be terribly affected.

I hope that helps.

Regards
Dave
fridomCEO/ProgrammerCommented:
it wouldn't be a worse place.

Friedrich
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ZACKYJONESKIAuthor Commented:

dr_binks, relax... This is no homework.

Yes you're right suprapto45.   I believe that the internet will still exist without JAVA.  But JAVA has been a tremendous part of our current web browsers and apps.  JAVA lines of code are so compact it enables users to utilize it with great ease (On the internet/web browsers, cell phones, etc..) .  Do you guys think the internet would have evolved that way it did without JAVA?  I dont know, this is a stupid question, sorry... :)  All i know is the internet would not have evolved or survived without UNIX operating systems, because 75% or the world's web servers still runs on UNIX systems...  
suprapto45Commented:
>>"Do you guys think the internet would have evolved that way it did without JAVA?"
Well, it would not be as sophisticated as now (I think). In addition, I think that there might be less web sites since Java is free and lots of people who are in the limited budget are using Java as their platform.

>>" All i know is the internet would not have evolved or survived without UNIX operating systems"
Only Java, PHP or C but not Microsoft-products can run on multiple platform such as UNIX or Linux ;). However, C is very rare to be used in web based programming. Thus, they are quite inter-related though.

Regards
Dave
InteractiveMindCommented:
Microsoft would be extremely happy -- as most people would have to resort to their technology (e.g. ASP .NET instead of JSP, etc).

It's hard to say whether or not the technology of the internet would be behind or infront of how it is now.... there's arguments to suggest both; but I suppose that it's impossible to ever know exactly..

So, rather than querying 'what if', we should be asking 'seeing as with DO have Java, how could we make the internet an even better place?'.
InteractiveMindCommented:
** should be:

  'Seeing as we DO have Java, how could we make the internet an even better place?'

;)
fridomCEO/ProgrammerCommented:
>>" All i know is the internet would not have evolved or survived without UNIX operating systems"
Only Java, PHP or C but not Microsoft-products can run on multiple platform such as UNIX or Linux ;). However, C is very rare to be used in web based programming. Thus, they are quite inter-related though.

You do not mean that seriosuly do you? Or do I misunderstood, you. The languages you'll be out of luck on something else but Windows is VisualBasic (although there might exist some counterpart somewhere).  But nearly every other language can be used on at least the most common platforms.

Regards
Friedrich
suprapto45Commented:
Hi Friedrich (fridom),

Do not really get you, please feel free to fix me if I am wrong ;)

Regards
Dave
fridomCEO/ProgrammerCommented:
the internet success is not just there because of Java. My impression about Java are very ambilvalent or let's say I'm thinking very sceptical about it.
- how can one accept a static typed language without Templates?
- the overhead is considerably
- all the Java tools have have the smell of beeing extremly heavy-weight. You do not talk about libraries but "frameworks"
- why is it still necessary today to explitcly write down all the types?
- downwared compability was not as high on the priorities as I think is acceptable (I hate to rewrite software just because stepping from some 1.3 to some 1.4 version)
- the need to compiler things to just try something is IMHO a short coming
- one has the impression that Java suffers much under the NIH-syndrom.
- the support for functional programming and therefor for abstrating algorithms is even worse than in Eiffel. Yes I know one can do that with levels of objects, but that's not the same as having support for functional programming "right at you finger-tips"

YFYI templates were known in Eiffel since it's beginning 1985, the Design by Contract idea which just was re-introced later was known there too. But guess in the 90s there were functional programming language available with automatic type inferencing. Why isn't that part of Java?

For my feeling Java and XML have lead to mostly bloated software. Waste of resources (time, man and machine power). It seems a lot of hardare updates were needed just because of the introduction of Java.

Well that was nearly zynical. And I have to admit that a few things were brough to a wider audience.
- Garbage collection
- object-oriented programming (with swabs). I donot understand why not everything can be treated as an object)
- introspection, serialization, OO to RDB mapping
- virtual machines

Of course things were done and implemented before but not accessible to a wider audience. I think because of the nice things Java has introduced people are more open for alternatives. E.g check the comments of Javaists to the light-weight framework Rails from Ruby.

However my impression is that people start to realize that Java is not the end of the language development and are really starting showing more interest in different approaches. It's a pitty that Sun does not have hyped Self as much as Java but hey it's Suns money isn't it?

It seems to me that more and more ideas from other langauges are considered of beeing valuable enough to be included into Java. some of this extensions can be found in other language since ages. But as said, it' obviously more funky to intoruce Aspect oriented programing with a thousands of new acronyms than to admit that they have stolen it from other languages.

It seems to me that Java is there for programming teams for the hundreds with a rigid software development approach which has proved often enough to lead to havoc. Does anyone remember the Office Suite which was supposed to be written completly in Java? Or in the same area does anyone remember Talingent?

Regards
Friedrich


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Jaime OlivaresSoftware ArchitectCommented:
Java is not the unique and powerful "free" product to develop for Internet. PHP, by example, is very portable, has lots of function and is widespread among developer communities, I think is a good option and since Microsoft is targeting his artillery to compete with LAMP (Linux/Apache/Mysql/PHP,Perl) is a sign that it is an important actor in this scenary.
I know there are some application where PHP is not very suitable, but those are desktop application, PHP is great for web applications and have lots of libraries (graphics, security, pdf, zip, etc...)
cwguyCommented:
I agree with suprapto45,

While Java began as a driving force in the initial growth of the internet (being bound to Netscape), it soon became apparent its use in everyday web pages would become trivial (the 'little significance' definition). However, it did become semi popular among corporations needing "enterprise level intranet". In the past few years I especially have noticed a diminishing use of Java even for trivial purposes and being replaced by more efficient technologies such as Flash and, to an extent, PHP.

Moreover, Java has been a complete failure in the mobile market. Any hopes of seeing Java on mobiles, as was originally hoped to be the real use of Java, is gone and has been taken over, once again, by Microsoft.

Therefore, if Java was gone, it would only hurt the enterprise market, the only frontier left for Java.
SPUHCommented:
I thing internet without java would look good.
Jaime OlivaresSoftware ArchitectCommented:
Yeah, I don't like all those products that starts with 'J'
weeb0Commented:
if java never existed, then never microsoft would have created C# .  That is sure!
if java never existed, then never microsoft would have created the j++.
furqanchandioCommented:


at least java made the world think outside the box in terms of platform independence
ZACKYJONESKIAuthor Commented:
Thank you all for participating. Sorry it took me so long to award your well earned points...Thank you!!!
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