asked on
Hyperthreading activated on P4 3.2Ghz gives constant 50% usage in WinXP
I recently upgraded my PC with a Asus P4P800-e Deluxe motherboard together with a (one) P4 3.2 Ghz.
When not using Hyperthreading, everything works just fine, but on a single CPU-hungry process the CPU
gets really hot (about 71 degrees Celcius).
I would like to use HT to 'top off' the CPU-usage by a single process, so the other 'half' of the CPU
becomes available for other processes. Since both the MB and CPU support Hyperthreading, I activated HT.
With HT it takes somewhat longer to start WindowsXP (loading HT-kernel ?) but when I look in WinXP
in the task manager (while no real processes running !) I notice something strange: the left 50% of the
CPU does nothing (as it should) but the right half of the CPU is constantly busy at about 80%. So the full
CPU usage constantly hangs at 40-47%.
On the 'processes' tab of taskmanager (sorted on cpu usage descending) there's no process really active,
with the exception of 'non-active systemprocesses' (translated from dutch) which I never understood
because this process always gives about 99% but really does not use it ?
When running a process the 'left'-CPU gives normal usage.
But the main question: why is half my CPU so busy doing nothing ?
I made some screenshots of taskmanager:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu1.jpg (right CPU at 100%)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu2.jpg (active processes)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu3.jpg (CPU's when running a process).
Other hardware: 2x512Mb DIMM PC2700, ASUS BIOS v1008.002 (4 Aug 2005), NVIDIA GeForce3,
using the onboard Promise FastTrak 378 RAID controller for 2xMaxtor 80Gb in RAID0.
Also using a Maxtor 6Y120P0 and a Maxtor 5T040H4 (just IDE).
When not using Hyperthreading, everything works just fine, but on a single CPU-hungry process the CPU
gets really hot (about 71 degrees Celcius).
I would like to use HT to 'top off' the CPU-usage by a single process, so the other 'half' of the CPU
becomes available for other processes. Since both the MB and CPU support Hyperthreading, I activated HT.
With HT it takes somewhat longer to start WindowsXP (loading HT-kernel ?) but when I look in WinXP
in the task manager (while no real processes running !) I notice something strange: the left 50% of the
CPU does nothing (as it should) but the right half of the CPU is constantly busy at about 80%. So the full
CPU usage constantly hangs at 40-47%.
On the 'processes' tab of taskmanager (sorted on cpu usage descending) there's no process really active,
with the exception of 'non-active systemprocesses' (translated from dutch) which I never understood
because this process always gives about 99% but really does not use it ?
When running a process the 'left'-CPU gives normal usage.
But the main question: why is half my CPU so busy doing nothing ?
I made some screenshots of taskmanager:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu1.jpg (right CPU at 100%)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu2.jpg (active processes)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu3.jpg (CPU's when running a process).
Other hardware: 2x512Mb DIMM PC2700, ASUS BIOS v1008.002 (4 Aug 2005), NVIDIA GeForce3,
using the onboard Promise FastTrak 378 RAID controller for 2xMaxtor 80Gb in RAID0.
Also using a Maxtor 6Y120P0 and a Maxtor 5T040H4 (just IDE).
Hardware
Last Comment
GhostMod
ASKER
My CPU cooler is not the standard Intel but the Nexus PHT-3600 which should make less noise.
I did use a speed reduction cable for even less noise, but I removed that when the CPU got too hot.
I read somewhere that switchting from ACPI multiprocessor to MPS multiprocessor should solve the
50% problem. I managed to change this (device manager) and immediately after that all hardware
was re-installed again (drivers). Unfortunately, WinXP did not boot up after that anymore, even the
recovery WinXP installed crashed (at '34 minutes to go').
So I re-installed XP (with HT activated) and asap switched to MPS multiprocessor again.
Unfortunately when doing that, there is a conflict with a memory address which is used by more
than one device. Also, HT is not visible in WinXP; only one CPU is visibible in task manager.
So there's nothing left but re-installing XP again (with HT active in BIOS) and remaining at
'ACPI multiprocessor PC'. I still hope that someone has a solution for the 50%-usage problem ...
I did use a speed reduction cable for even less noise, but I removed that when the CPU got too hot.
I read somewhere that switchting from ACPI multiprocessor to MPS multiprocessor should solve the
50% problem. I managed to change this (device manager) and immediately after that all hardware
was re-installed again (drivers). Unfortunately, WinXP did not boot up after that anymore, even the
recovery WinXP installed crashed (at '34 minutes to go').
So I re-installed XP (with HT activated) and asap switched to MPS multiprocessor again.
Unfortunately when doing that, there is a conflict with a memory address which is used by more
than one device. Also, HT is not visible in WinXP; only one CPU is visibible in task manager.
So there's nothing left but re-installing XP again (with HT active in BIOS) and remaining at
'ACPI multiprocessor PC'. I still hope that someone has a solution for the 50%-usage problem ...
'ACPI multiprocessor PC' is the correct HAL for a hyperthreading CPU.
I'd expect that if you install with this setting you will not have the 50% problem.
Not sure what using a "MPS multiprocessor" is causing -- this tells XP you have two physically distinct processors: it is clearly WRONG and I'm not surprised you're having issues with this setting.
I'd expect that if you install with this setting you will not have the 50% problem.
Not sure what using a "MPS multiprocessor" is causing -- this tells XP you have two physically distinct processors: it is clearly WRONG and I'm not surprised you're having issues with this setting.
ASKER
actually, the problem STARTED while 'ACPI multiprocessor PC' was active.
In the mean time, I installed XP again, 'ACPI' and HT are active and I'm still having the problem:
'one of the' CPU's is constantly using about 90% so overall CPU usage is between 40 and 49%.
In the mean time, I installed XP again, 'ACPI' and HT are active and I'm still having the problem:
'one of the' CPU's is constantly using about 90% so overall CPU usage is between 40 and 49%.
Did you do a "clean" reinstall? (i.e. repartition & format the hard drive)
If not, I'd try that.
If so, and you're getting this issue with no other programs installed, etc., then you may have a defective CPU. Or it's not seated correctly. I'd remove the heatsink & CPU & re-install it. Be sure to totally clean the CPU & heatsink if you do this and reapply a good thermal compound (I recommend Artic Silver 5).
If not, I'd try that.
If so, and you're getting this issue with no other programs installed, etc., then you may have a defective CPU. Or it's not seated correctly. I'd remove the heatsink & CPU & re-install it. Be sure to totally clean the CPU & heatsink if you do this and reapply a good thermal compound (I recommend Artic Silver 5).
ASKER
Well, not thát clean. I started the XP setup and ntfs-formatted the c-drive for a new, clean install.
I'm not sure that there's something wrong with the cpu because when HT is disabled it works just fine.
And I have seen other issues on experts-exchange with the same problem (but I can't see the
solution because than I would have to pay ...)
Still hoping someone can give me alternative solution.
I'm not sure that there's something wrong with the cpu because when HT is disabled it works just fine.
And I have seen other issues on experts-exchange with the same problem (but I can't see the
solution because than I would have to pay ...)
Still hoping someone can give me alternative solution.
If you're using the Google Explorer bar disable it -- it's been known to cause this issue.
ASKER
Nope, remember the problem is visible already after a clean XP install !
Today I removed the 40Gb hd (maybe it was a PSU issue...), I replaced the silent
CPU cooler with the standard Intel cooler and I resetted the BIOS CMOS.
That helped for the POST-message 'Overclocking failed! Please enter setup te re-configure
your system' but the 50% CPU problem still exists. Only now I could see that the 50% usage
of the 'seconde CPU' starts after a few seconds booting XP, so not immediately. I tried to
close as many processes as I could but nothing ...
I downloaded Sysinternals Process Explorer (http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/ProcessExplorer.html)
and that shows me that about 40% CPU usages goes to 'Hardware interrupts' ! Well, that doesn't
make it any clearer to me, I'm afraid. Screendump: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu5.jpg
I also tried "TaskInfo" (http://www.softforall.com/Utilities/System/TaskInfo09140391_download.htm) and
that shows 40% usage for "Interrupts Time Placeholder" ! Screen: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu4.jpg
Anyone ?
BTW, this was the link I used to try replacing 'ACPI Multiprocessor PC' with 'MPS multiprocessor PC' :
http://www.mwt.net/~jmueller/faqs/0075/cpuusage.html
Today I removed the 40Gb hd (maybe it was a PSU issue...), I replaced the silent
CPU cooler with the standard Intel cooler and I resetted the BIOS CMOS.
That helped for the POST-message 'Overclocking failed! Please enter setup te re-configure
your system' but the 50% CPU problem still exists. Only now I could see that the 50% usage
of the 'seconde CPU' starts after a few seconds booting XP, so not immediately. I tried to
close as many processes as I could but nothing ...
I downloaded Sysinternals Process Explorer (http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/ProcessExplorer.html)
and that shows me that about 40% CPU usages goes to 'Hardware interrupts' ! Well, that doesn't
make it any clearer to me, I'm afraid. Screendump: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu5.jpg
I also tried "TaskInfo" (http://www.softforall.com/Utilities/System/TaskInfo09140391_download.htm) and
that shows 40% usage for "Interrupts Time Placeholder" ! Screen: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/wb640/cpu4.jpg
Anyone ?
BTW, this was the link I used to try replacing 'ACPI Multiprocessor PC' with 'MPS multiprocessor PC' :
http://www.mwt.net/~jmueller/faqs/0075/cpuusage.html
ASKER
I may have found something !
I noticed that sometimes my Eicon ISDN-card was not configured correctly (yellow exclamation
mark) and 'could not be started'. This may have been at the same times when the CPU-problem
occurred. When I rebooted my PC while the cover was open (and it was laying down horizontally
instead of standing up right) I noticed that: 1) the 50%-cpu problem was gone and 2) the Eicon
card was installed correctly.
So I moved the Eicon card to another PCI slot and rebooted and at the moment I have NO problem
with the 'second CPU'. So I hope this was actually the problem ...
In retrospect, I can hardly believe that all problems (CPU 50%, POST 'overclocking' message) were
all caused by a ISDN-card which could not be 'started' correctly.
I'm leaving the extra 40Gb HD out, that may be too much for my Enermax 365Watt PSU (with already
3 HD, 2 DVD and now 1 ZIP-drive, and a Geforce 3). And I reinserted the Nexus silent CPU-cooler,
that is REALLY much more silent than the Intel cooler.
Thanks anyway, hope I solved the problem now ...
I noticed that sometimes my Eicon ISDN-card was not configured correctly (yellow exclamation
mark) and 'could not be started'. This may have been at the same times when the CPU-problem
occurred. When I rebooted my PC while the cover was open (and it was laying down horizontally
instead of standing up right) I noticed that: 1) the 50%-cpu problem was gone and 2) the Eicon
card was installed correctly.
So I moved the Eicon card to another PCI slot and rebooted and at the moment I have NO problem
with the 'second CPU'. So I hope this was actually the problem ...
In retrospect, I can hardly believe that all problems (CPU 50%, POST 'overclocking' message) were
all caused by a ISDN-card which could not be 'started' correctly.
I'm leaving the extra 40Gb HD out, that may be too much for my Enermax 365Watt PSU (with already
3 HD, 2 DVD and now 1 ZIP-drive, and a Geforce 3). And I reinserted the Nexus silent CPU-cooler,
that is REALLY much more silent than the Intel cooler.
Thanks anyway, hope I solved the problem now ...
Ah ha -- you've identified the problem!
"Hardware interrupts" means that you are getting a very heavy interrupt load from some device -- and the CPU is busy responding to those interrupts. That explains WHY you're getting the high utilization -- but it doesn't tell you WHAT hardware device is generating the interrupts. With the exceptionally high volume, it has to be a high-data-rate device. Could be the system timer, the hard drive, the USB controller, etc.
If you get this problem with a "clean install" and MINIMAL other devices connected -- i.e. NO USB devices, no optical drive, no floppy, no PCI cards, etc. -- then it's most likely a problem with your motherboard. It could be a defective motherboard, OR (check these carefully) simply a shorted connection for an interrupt-producing device. Are you using the on-board USB header? If so, disconnect your plug from that. Any chance you've got a short between the motherboard and the case? If you think so, then try this with the motherboard removed. Etc.
"Hardware interrupts" means that you are getting a very heavy interrupt load from some device -- and the CPU is busy responding to those interrupts. That explains WHY you're getting the high utilization -- but it doesn't tell you WHAT hardware device is generating the interrupts. With the exceptionally high volume, it has to be a high-data-rate device. Could be the system timer, the hard drive, the USB controller, etc.
If you get this problem with a "clean install" and MINIMAL other devices connected -- i.e. NO USB devices, no optical drive, no floppy, no PCI cards, etc. -- then it's most likely a problem with your motherboard. It could be a defective motherboard, OR (check these carefully) simply a shorted connection for an interrupt-producing device. Are you using the on-board USB header? If so, disconnect your plug from that. Any chance you've got a short between the motherboard and the case? If you think so, then try this with the motherboard removed. Etc.
ASKER
I guess we typed our comments almost at the same time, see my previous comment ... you are right !
... well we were writing at the same time :) It seems clear that you most likely had the card installed incorrectly -- or have a problem with that particular slot. In any event, an ISDN card could certainly be generating the interrupt load I referred to -- and the CPU was simply busy responding to all of the interrupts.
ASKER
Indeed. Still, strange that thát only happened with HT activated. In single-CPU mode there was no 25% or 50%
CPU-load. So it must have been a combination of things ... Well, these things keeps you "off the street" as we say
in the Netherlands ...
CPU-load. So it must have been a combination of things ... Well, these things keeps you "off the street" as we say
in the Netherlands ...
Yes, that is a bit strange. There may be some difference in how your ISDN card was initialized depending on whether or not hyperthreading was enabled -- and with hyperthreading it was put in some mode that caused the high interrupt issue. I learned long ago there will be many issues that we'll never fully understand!!
Here's something to look at:
In TASK MANAGER, go to the Processes Tab. Right-click on on each process and select "Affinity". Check whether CPU0 or CPU1 or both are selected. If only one is selected (in your case it seems to be CPU1- the right one) then it will do most/all of the processing for that process on that specific CPU. Though Windows defaults to allowing a process to use 'both' virtual CPUs, it may not be the case for you.
If it's not this, try listing the processes by current CPU consumption... that might give you a clue of what's hogging up the CPU.
In TASK MANAGER, go to the Processes Tab. Right-click on on each process and select "Affinity". Check whether CPU0 or CPU1 or both are selected. If only one is selected (in your case it seems to be CPU1- the right one) then it will do most/all of the processing for that process on that specific CPU. Though Windows defaults to allowing a process to use 'both' virtual CPUs, it may not be the case for you.
If it's not this, try listing the processes by current CPU consumption... that might give you a clue of what's hogging up the CPU.
ASKER
thanks Okigire
but as you can read I already solved it myself ...
moving my Eicon ISDN-card to another slot was the solution.
The combination of that card in that slot seemed to generate
a flow of IRQ-'messages' to the CPU ...
I don't have CPU-problems anymore, besides the heat of the 3.2Ghz.
If I had known in advance that this CPU would need extra cooling,
I might have thought about a 'slower' and cooler model.
but as you can read I already solved it myself ...
moving my Eicon ISDN-card to another slot was the solution.
The combination of that card in that slot seemed to generate
a flow of IRQ-'messages' to the CPU ...
I don't have CPU-problems anymore, besides the heat of the 3.2Ghz.
If I had known in advance that this CPU would need extra cooling,
I might have thought about a 'slower' and cooler model.
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Second, did you install XP with hyperthreading turned off? If so, your system is probably using the wrong hardware abstraction layer (HAL). Look in Device Manager (right-click on My Computer; select Properties; click on the Hardware tab; choose Device Manager), expand "Computer" (click on the "+" sign to the left of it); and see what it says.
Unfortunately, there's no way I'm aware of to change the HAL beyond a limited set of options which depend on your initially installed HAL (see http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=309283). If you need to change it to an ACPI Multiprocessor PC - which you would normally see with hyperthreading - you'll need to do an new XP install; either with hyperthreading enabled, or you could "force" the HAL layer by pressing F7 at the same prompt where it asks for F6 for a SCSI driver.
Not certain this is why you're having the issue you're seeing -- but there's a reasonable chance it's contributing to the strange behavior.