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Can't connect after disconnecting router and using only modem.

Hi. I have a computer running Windows XP connected to a Linksys router with DHCP then to a Cable modem. It had been running fine like this. Now, I think my router is going bad because of very slow download speeds and intermittent connection to the Internet (mostly none) and intermittent email connections. Ironically, things like ZoneAlarm still seem to connect. I am going to purchase a new router.

In the meantime, I wanted to run the PC with just the cable modem using ZoneAlarm as my firewall. I hooked it up directly, but it would not connect to the network. I ran a command prompt and tried /release and /renew after an ipconfig and it did release the IP address from the router and give the PC a new IP, but it still didn't work. I did turn off ZoneAlarm, and it still didn't work. I tried repairing and disabling and enabling (I know probably not very helpful).

As I said, I will most likely get another router, but I find it frustrating that I cannot get the Internet to work using a direct connection to the modem. It was set up directly for over a year before I inserted a router.

Thank you.

By the way, I always try to reply promptly, but I have to send this from my work computer and the other computer is at home so it may be 12 to 24 hours before I can get back.
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Bert2005
Asked:
Bert2005
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3 Solutions
 
Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
Temporarily disable Wiindows firewall in Control Panel, in addition to Zone Alarm being off.

Are you able to connect now?
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Bert2005Author Commented:
irwinpks:

Thanks for the comment. I always have Windows firewall off as I use ZA and the Linksys router (which is disconnected now). I tried with ZA off, but no difference. I have also been rebooting quite a bit to see if Windows will find an IP address.

After using ipconfig /release and ipconfig /renew, I did try to repair the connection and Windows showed it was looking for a new IP address. Generally, when I do a repair it will run through the IP search and DNS changes quickly, but this time it got stuck on obtain new IP for about two minutes before timing out.

Does anyone know any ping commands to help with the troubleshooting?

Bert
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
turn off your cable modem, wait 10 seconds and turn it back on.

by chance are you using AOL?

also, ping has 1 parameter.

ping IP Address... such as

ping 192.168.1.1
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
As suggested turning off the cable modem may resolve. Sometimes the modem will remember the MAC (machine address code) of the previous device and not release it.

Also a few ISPs (Internet service providers) require you to advise them of the MAC address of the connecting device, then only that device can make the connection. Routers allow you to change the MAC address to that of your computer, but in most cases the opposite is not true. You could call the ISP and ask if this is the case, and if so provide the MAC address. If you need the MAC, at a command line/DOS window enter    ipconfig  /all    The returned "Physical Adapter" is the MAC address something like A1-B2-C3-D4-E5-F6

Final suggestion: if the router wasn't connecting and now the computer is not connecting, could the problem be with the modem or ISP, rather than the router?
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Hey Rob!
Thanks again irwinpks:

I have rebooted the modem a few times. Once for hours as I was away. No change. Don't like AOL. I thought I could ping 192.168.1.1

The MAC address is a good idea. A few months back when everything was running (modem and router and computer), Adelphia dropped off a new Motorola modem to replace the Terayon. Literally just left it at my doorstep. It was supposed to be faster. It worked but much more slowly than the original modem. When I called Adelphia, they matched up MAC addresses, and it was much faster.

Good point about the modem or ISP. I doubt it is that as previously when everything was connected (about two days ago) I could intermittently (but very slowly) connect and some of my system tray programs such as ZoneAlarm, the infamous RingCentral from a previous TA, and Mirra Server could connect along with GoToMyPC. It's important to say that while these were making a connection, Outlook could only intermittently connect, albeit slowly and the browser could only load a website every tenth time or so. That was why I thought it was the router.

I may have to try some of these things before we go too much farther.

Bert
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
to clarify .. what is the manufacturer and model of the cable modem?
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Bert2005Author Commented:
It's a Motorola. Not sure of the model. I can get that info when I get home or sooner if I can get it from a friend with the same modem.
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Hi Bert! not suggesting it is not the router, but the bad connections over the past days could also be the modem dying. Just saying we always assume it's our own equipment. Just keep an open mind, that it might not be.
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SaquangCommented:
ok, that's frustrating.  It took me a while to finally figure this out by accident.

Try this:  


do all this while the comp connected to the router is turned off
1.
-turn off your router
-unplug the power cable from the router
-unplug the ethernet cable from the router to your comp
-unplug the ethernet cable from the router to the modem.
leave your router off

2.  
-turn off your calbe modem
-unplug the power cables and other ethernet cables connected to it.
-let it sit for about 2 to 3 minutes (this will reset it).

3.
-plug the power to the modem - wait for all the lites to come on
-once you get all the lights, you're rolling.
-run your ethernet cables to your router and from your router to your comp.


this should do it.  Some newer routers and cable modems has a hard reset button. I find that unplugging works better.


good luck
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masnrockCommented:
You could get software that will let your computer spoof (or should I say clone?) the MAC address of your router. One you've put in the right MAC, you'll be on in a snap.

http://www.nthelp.com/NT6/change_mac_w2k.htm
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Bert2005Author Commented:
These are all great ideas. I also like the idea of considering it may be the modem. I think it may be a good idea to let me try these when I get home,  and I will get back to everyone.

I always spend most of my time in the networking section of Experts-Exchange. Why is networking so hard?

Rob, by the way, I don't know if you recall the TA about only 11 of 14 computers being able to connect to the Internet intermittently on our work LAN. We finally figured out it was due to not enough licenses in the Cisco PIX. When I upgraded from 10 user licenses to 50, the problem went away.

Thanks
Bert
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Bert, A license issue, mmmmmmm... that would do it, but never thought of that. I use a lot of WatchGuard routers that have license limitations. The length of time we worked on that i should have thought of that. At least it's resolved.

If you think it's a MAC issue and you are plying later. Some network adapters will allow you to change the MAC, especially most Intel ones. It is under the properties of your network adapter in the device manager on the advanced tab.  However, I have seen the configuration called a dozen different things, and never MAC address. On the Intel's' it is usually "locally administered address".
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masnrockCommented:
Network Address is the most common name I've seen for network cards. (Sounds strange, I know, but that's how they like to do it)
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Magus_opusCommented:
have you tried taking out the battery backup that most cable modems have?

my no-fail method of resetting a cable modem for a new machine is this: (as worked with various ISP's and cable modem models)

1.) Take out the battery from the cable modem
2.) Hold down the "reset" button for approximately 1-3 seconds (lights will do a quick flash normally)
3.) while holding down the reset button, unplug the power connector.
4.) Let the cable modem sit for about 2-5 minutes
5.) plug the ethernet cable from the computer you'll be connecting, into the WAN port.
6.) plug the power back in and allow it to configure itself for a second.
7.) attempt to connect.  Make sure that you've set your NIC to utilize DHCP, otherwise you won't obtain the correct IP.

8.) (added step) make sure to install a software firewall to block all the extra crap that'll be coming in.

(when you need to install your new router, follow the same steps only with the router and not the computer this time around.)





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Bert2005Author Commented:
OK, headed home. Will probably have a Heineken, watch 24, then work on all of the above suggestions. Anyone addicted to 24?

Bert
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Addicted to 24 Heineken, or the show ? <G> I don't watch TV, or at least no more than 1-2 hours a week, wouldn't even own one if it weren't for my kids, but the Heineken, now that's a different story.
--Rob
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Bert2005Author Commented:
With my job, I get very little TV time as well. In fact, if truth be known, the only reason I try to pick a couple of shows a week, is to make sure I get home at a decent hour.

Now, it takes two Heinekens to get addicted or whatever your favorite beer is, but I dare you to watch 24 once, without getting addicted. The only thing is, as computer gurus as you guys are, you will wonder as I do, how Chloe can upload and download as much secret intel as she does without her computer freezing just once : )
Bert
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
I'll have to give 24 a shot. I have heard it is very good. It is only the last year I haven't had a running commentary of all TV programming. My wife, who now works a local children's hospital, worked for a television station, in programing, for 10-15 years, and my father was head of the film (yes film, not video) department for a large chunk of Canada for 30 years. That might be what turned me off of TV, or was it reality TV that did it, no I guess it was before that. <G>
Enjoy the show.
--Rob
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SaquangCommented:
Bert, yep 24 is realy a hot show.  I started watching season 2; didn't watch 1st season, still good though.  


any progress on your situation??
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Wow, that was an incredible episode. That's cool that your wife works at a Children's Hospital, as I may have mentioned our LAN is at a pediatric office. Reality TV is the worst. As always, TV over did it.

Saquang, I got home with that MAC address spoofe (or so I thought). I had plugged in my thumb drive and downloaded the program, but forgot to put the download into the thumb drive. So, I got home and inserted the drive and.....nothing : (    How stupid.   I did try a lot of the unplug, turn off, turn on, reconnect suggestions and nothing worked.

Let me give one thing, though, that may go along with what Rob is saying. This is kind of weird and, to me, would indicate it would be the router and not the modem as far as something's being bad.  OK:

I was trying the modem with all of the suggetions and nothing. No Internet, no connections of anything that accesses the Internet.

When I tried using the router again, I still could not get email with Outlook or Internet via I.E., but a few things that require the Internet, would come on, i.e. ZoneAlarm was showing traffic and my Mirra server was red indicating it was finding its server. Maybe these things work regardless, but I don't think so. My gmail notification icon was not working showing Gmail not connected and GoToMyPC was down. But, I thought it may be important to tell you that the Mirra icon does not turn red (working) without the router and neither does ZA.

Bert

I do need to contact Adelphia for a new MAC address and to run it by them. Also want to try the spoofing thing that masnrock suggested.
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
>>"your wife works at a Children's Hospital, as I may have mentioned our LAN is at a pediatric office."
I remember, that is actually why I mentioned it.

Any chance it is a DNS issue? You can connect but not resolve names? it would explain some services and traffic. You could test by trying to connect to an IP rather than the address. Try:
http://64.233.187.99/   
(Goggle IP)
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masnrockCommented:
Did you ever try a wired connection to the router? What's stranger is the fact that cable companies only care about the MAC address of your modem, not the MAC address of your computer.

ZA wouldn't have to have true internet traffic to work... just any network traffic. So it might've been traffic coming from your router or other machines. So the LAN is working fine... it's just the WAN connection that's screwing up.

Go ahead and try to clone the MAC address that you had your router using, but I'm willing to bet that it's going to probably come down to 2 things.... your modem or Adelphia. I had a recently problem with a modem I was using with Comcast where the thing worked for a while, then suddenly stopped working. The moment I bought a new modem, things were cool again.

Do all of the appropriate lights on your modem come up? (data, cable, pc)
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masnrockCommented:
Rob pointed out the other possibility that would make sense. Just curious, are you going to end up a Comcast or Time Warner customer? Comcast I've had more than a few DNS server problems.
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Bert2005Author Commented:
All the lights come up on the modem and the router. It's strange, because it worked a little better before changing to just the modem. Can you look at www.mirra.com and see if the Mirral icon should be red if there is NO Internet. I am not sure about the Comcast or Time Warner. Is Adelphia switching?

I will try the DNS.

BTW, this is the first problem with my home computer. Usually, I can try all these things in real time, but now I have to go home to try. : (
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masnrockCommented:
Adelphia is getting bought out by Comcast and Time Warner. One of my coworkers is going to end up a Comcast customer as a result.

The light would only represent having a network connection.... it would've obtained an IP address successfully. An amber light would imply otherwise. However, that doesn't mean it's on the Internet itself... just on a network of some sort. In this instance, that network would be the one run by your router. Just like your network card on your PC or laptop would have a green light with another light (usually orange) flashing. It has network connectivity and has data coming in and out, but that doesn't mean it's coming from the outside world. Just some network it's connected to.

I'd call Adelphia and see what's going on. Just make sure your router isn't connected at the time you call, since cable companies don't support home networks.
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Does a cable company support a router if it is just being used as a firewall?
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
I have never seen one that does. They usually only support the equipment they supply, if any, at least out here in the boondocks.
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masnrockCommented:
No. Cable companies generally only support their service and the wiring. They'll check your modem, but won't provide any support to your home network or VoIP service (unless it's from them).
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Bert2005Author Commented:
OK gang,

Spoke with Adelphia last night. The tech said he could see the modem and everything was working fine. He told me it was between the modem and the computer, possibly the NIC card. Hopefully. That would be easy.

Here is some info that may or may not help:

I did ipconfig with the PC hooked up through the modem only and the router and modem. I get different configurations and am wondering if that is normal. Here is a copy:

Modem only:

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : bert
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) PRO/100 VE Network Connecti
on
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-03-47-DB-61-16
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.100.11
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.100.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.100.1
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:44:29 PM
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:44:49 PM

Was able to pink IP address and default gateway

With router and modem:

Windows IP Configuration


Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.101
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

C:\Documents and Settings\Bert Adams>ping 192.168.1.1

Pinging 192.168.1.1 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=150
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=150
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=150
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=150

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.1:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms

Also, I got into the modem and copied what I saw. I don't know if it will be helpful, but here it is:

www.ibackup.com

Username: experts
Password:  experts1

Thanks


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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Bert that all looks normal.
Yes it is normal to have different IP configurations when connected directly to the modem and when connected to the router as you are using 2 different DHCP servers.
As for the errors on the Motorola, I have asked about those 1/2 dozen times. Same errors on everyone I have looked at. I have been told it has to do with looking for a dynamic IP from sites where they have static IP's. Do you have static at home?
Motorola are supposed to make good modems by the way. Is that a Surfboard 5100, or similar?
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masnrockCommented:
Strange..... what type of modem do you have? It sounds like you actually have a gateway that combines that functionality of a modem and a router. Modems do not give out 192.168.x.x addresses. What model Motorola?

Also, I don't see any information on what your external IP address is. (Even if you had obscured part of it for security reasons)

So do you have either another network card or another computer you can test with?

Try this command:
tracert 64.233.187.99

Tell us the IP addresses you see in the route. Not every router, etc, may respond, but it's worth a shot.
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Bert, for security reasons don't post your full WAN IP. Block the last Octet.
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Again, will have to try at home.

Could this possibly be a bad network card?

I have tons of new ones lying around. Would be simple to throw one in.

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Bert2005Author Commented:
Rob,

Which one is the WAN IP? Is it the first IP address in the posts above?

Bert
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
WAN IP can be found from the WAN page of the router, going to the following from your home site  http://www.whatismyip.com, or as part of the tracert as suggested by masnrock. It will start with something other than 192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x or 17.16-32.x.x (those are all private IP ranges).

Not quite sure how knowing the WAN IP is going to help. However, the tracert will confirm all the routers/devices along the way. If you have an Internet connection, they are all working. However if it is not connected it will show all the working routers (Internet based) and where the break is. Likely between your router and the modem.

As for a network card, I am doubtful. Doesn't this work OK when connected directly to the router or your network?
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masnrockCommented:
Rob - The WAN IP won't help much other than telling he's getting an IP from his cable co. However, I noticed when I saw the pictures that he posted for us, that he was using a gateway rather than an actual cable modem.

Bert - How many ports are on your modem? You could try plugging into a different one. Also, try one of the other NICs. (And as Rob said, if you can get your public IP, do NOT give us the whole thing)
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
did you ever get that modem model #?
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Bert2005Author Commented:
A few things:

Only asked about the WAN port, because I wanted to make sure I hadn't already posted it.

There is only one port on the modem; there are four on the router.

Rob, it doesn't work with the router connected. It was very slow for awhile, so I disconnected the router and used just the modem. Ever since, nothing has worked.

I think the modem is a Motorola Surfboard Model Sb5101.

It is very unfortunate that I cannot try these things real time. I appreciate all of the help.
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
there's no real support for the model modem..
http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/support/default.asp?supportSection=CableModems

So.. how about replacing it?  If you ISP provided it to you, just say that when you connect directly without any firewall appliance and/or software, you experience intermittent connections and slow download speeds.
Include in your statement that you have multiple machines and they experience the same when connect directly.

Do not mention router or they'll bust your chops in having you troubleshoot.  If it is your own modem...well find a place where they'll give you a good return policy.
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masnrockCommented:
Are you running VoIP service at home? Like from AT&T, Packet8, or Vonage?

As previously mentioned, there is no way that you can have a normal cable modem assigning a private IP address because ISPs assign out public ones, hence why I'm suspicious of the unit itself. Look at your TCP/IP settings for your LAN connection and tell us what the settings are. Also tell us what the alternate settings are (XP lets you have 2 sets of settings).

Another thing to look at... did you check the standby switch? Motorolas are the only brand I've ever seen with that feature built in.
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masnrockCommented:
If you're running a VoIP service, disconnect the TA and connect your computer directly to the modem itself. (Unless your VoIP service is from the cable co, they're not going to support that either)
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Let's see. I guess I could just tell Adelphia that the modem is bad and I want it replaced. Would they balk given the fact that they are saying it is good from their end. Maybe I should just purchase my own modem.

I am not using VoIP service.

Is my modem assigning a private IP address? I thought I did post my TCP/IP settings above. I could be wrong. I don't see any alternate settings. My actual connection is set for DHCP. I did post ipconfig above. I don't think I have two sets of settings. I have a reset button, but I can't see a standby switch. I also wouldn't know how to check for a backup battery, although there doesn't seem to be a place to put a backup battery in the modem.

I have no VoIP.

I would hate to purchase a new router, but if it were the router, maybe it would work again with a router. BUT shouldn't it be simple to have it connect with just the modem? I did do a release and renew to obtain a new IP address. Why is this so difficult : (

Thanks
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
You mentioned that you connected directly to your modem and got the same problem right?  so eliminate the router.  Explain to Adelphia as prescribed, for them the easiest solution is to replace the modem rather than troubleshoot it.
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masnrockCommented:
I hadn't even seen a modem assign out private IPs, which what was strange to me... apparently some will do it. But tell them everything you've tried. They're always going to single out your PC before their own equipment. Just have them bring one... if it doesn't work, then they can take it back. If that is the problem, you're cool. (Alternatively, I would make them pay for your modem if you decide to buy one and found that to be the cause of your issues... but clear that with customer service first)

Cable companies cannot always detect problems from their office, even though they'll swear up and down that they can. If they could, what would the technicians be for? Since you're renting a modem from them AND it turns out the modem was the problem, make sure that they also refund you for any time that you've been unable to use your Internet service (they won't adjust your bill unless you ask).
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Bert2005Author Commented:
How about if I just went out to BestBuy and purchased the following cable modem and changed the network card. Guess I wouldn't have to do both, but that would probably take care of two of the three problems.

The only thing is when Adelphia brought out the faster Motorola Surfboard modem, they had to do something on their end to the MAC address to make it work correctly. If I purchased a new 3rd party modem, would it configure itself properly with Adelphia?

Linksys EtherFast Cable Modem with USB
 
Model: BEFCMU10
 

 
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1115416831827&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

Looks good to me.  you may have to call Adelphia.. but if they supplied you the modem.. then there is no need to spend your hard earned money.
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masnrockCommented:
You'd have to register your modem with them... that can be done over the phone. After all, they wanna keep unauthorized equipment off their network. :-)

Replace the NIC first if you wanna change something.... but chances the damn modem's the issue. Make those bastards get off their asses! And like I've told you, make sure to get your bill adjusted once it's all fixed.
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Can you connect the PC to anything, router or another PC with a crossover cable, or take it to the office to verify the network adapter is working? Even connect it to the router and see if you can open the web interface without worrying about connecting to the Internet. If the network adapter works and you cannot get an Internet connection connection when directly connected to the Modem it is either the modem, or they have not registered the MAC address of the PC. Some cable companies only allow only 1 MAC to connect, and those companies usually use Surfboard modems. So it is a possibility, and if so, they likely have the MAC of the router registered. If you cannot connect without the router, and the NIC works, it's their problem regardless. Let them send a tech and deal with it.
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Well, I have to go home and stare at a computer with no Internet connection. Rob, that's a good point about connecting. I was able to connect to the modem to get that info I uploaded to ibackup.com. So, I guess I can connect. Plus, if anyone recalls my earlier statements about the Mirra server turning red (connecting) when I had the router connected and nothing else worked, I realize now it is because the Mirra is connected to the router so the PC "sees" it. It is not really getting out to the Internet. So, the ethernet card must be working.

I think I will talk to Adelphia again. I don't know why they don't consider the MAC issue. Sure, the tech can say the modem works, but there is a problem with the modem to the computer. That is probably because of the MAC thing.

OK, so HERE is an important question to everyone: If Adelphia does register the MAC address and everything works through the modem, then the initial problem would have to be with the router, correct? Which would mean that a new router would fix the problem, as I wouldn't need to worry about the modem's MAC?

Sorry, I don't quite understand at the same level as the experts : )

Bert
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Keep in mind they may not register MAC addresses.
Residential Router History 101:  When high speed Internet connections first became available many ISP's wanted to charge you for each device connected to the Internet. The way they controlled access was by creating a "reservation" list on their servers/routers that authorized MAC addresses within the reservation list to obtain an IP through DHCP. If you wanted to add a device (another computer) or change the existing connected device, you had to advise them of the new MAC address. There are still quite a few ISP's out there that do this. And if that is the case, only the registered MAC can connect. Earlier we suggested you might me able to change the MAC on your PC's NIC to spoof the address, or you can contact them and see if they do this and if so get it changed.
 
These restrictions are why home routers became so popular. They could do NAT (Network Address Translation) which allowed multiple computers to connect to the Internet using only 1 public/WAN IP. The other bonus feature they had was MAC cloning. They had a "button" you clicked on and it copied your PC's MAC to the router and then that is what the ISP saw, and therefore allowed to connect. They were illegal (by the Internet police) for quite a while in some areas. A basic Linksys was also $400 at that time.

See how you make out with the ISP. Personally I would tell them you have verified your NIC works everywhere else and get out there and fix it, and they had better bring a spare modem in case. If they supplied the modem they are obligated to get one computer up and running.
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Rob,

Thanks for all of the info above. Very helpful.

Well, everyone, you will not believe this. I got it to work. I got home and tried resetting the modem multiple times. Nothing. So, I wanted to verify again that my NIC worked, so I telneted into the modem. I had looked at this before (Rgconfig.jpg is on www.ibackup.com which shows it). Userid: experts and Password: experts1

I had pushed restart cable modem last night with no results. This time I clicked on Restore Factory Defaults. It says it may take from five to thirty minutes. My Internet was back on in about twenty seconds.

So, why the hell didn't the Adelphia guy suggest this? No, all he could say was it was my NIC card. Has this never happened before? Can he not restore factory defaults from his end?

So, this begs the question: If the modem works now that it is reset to factory defaults, then was it my router that went bad before? I doubt my modem just changed configurations. It would be more likely that the router went bad, then when I set up the modem on its own, it was configured wrong?

Everything is working now except I don't have a hardware firewall, which I don't like. Plus, I have other networked hardware that needs to be connected. My guess is I should purchase another router.

Thanks.

Bert
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Oh, btw, I posted from home : )
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
your router was working at the cable modem faulted... it more than likely got an invalid DHCP Ip addresses..

as for the Aldelphia guy..must've been your level one support guy and not the experts that were guiding you here on EE!

Can we all say "HooAHH!!"

:-)
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Bert2005Author Commented:
irwinpks,

So, does that mean I should insert the router back in. I know I am at more risk with just ZoneAlarm at the moment, but I hate to tempt fate. May be a good time to purchase a more robust router.

I guess this problem is almost solved, if not solved. Everyone helped a lot, but it's too late right now to go back and read all the posts to divvy up the points.

I would be interested in everyone's take on whether or not it was the modem; and if I should use the same router again.

Bert
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
plug the router back in.
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masnrockCommented:
Your router should be cool. It was the modem, and a crappy support person. :-)
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Let me add Bert.  1/2 through this thread, upon finding it was a Surfboard 5100, I gained some personal interest. I  have a client with a mission critical VPN connection , and use a Surfboard 5100, as do 40% of cable modem users in this area. The ISP's supply modems here for consistency and ease of support, which is excellent. They use a WatchGuard firewall, a very good $500 unit, but they lost their connection the other day  To get it to reconnect I had to do the powering/ power off/ router/ modem/ stand on your right foot "thing" for 2 hours, but it came back. The same thing happened the next 2 times I tried rebooting. Again, is it the router, is it the modem?

This connection uses a static IP, and I could connect a laptop directly to the modem and get a connection at any point so you would assume it is the router that is the problem. However, I have a back up identical router, it wouldn't connect. Both routers work great in all other respects and I have a $20,000 Fluke network analyzer that says the Watchguards were both working fine. To add to that, I set up 1 of the routers at another site and worked instantly. After talking to the ISP who said everything was fine he mentioned some routers, D-Link in particular, have a hard time re-establishing a connection with these modem.

So after my lengthy rant, I am just saying I think this particular model modem, may have issues connecting to certain interfaces. If there is a problem with the modem, good luck proving it if you can get an occasional connection, they will say it is your equipment.

I must try the reset. I was afraid to give it a shot in case it didn't come back up.
I have convinced the user to buy a new Cisco, for various reasons, and the cable company to replace the modem if I pick it up at their office. However, I too cannot specifically locate the problem.

Try picking up a $25 router and see if it connects. I would recommend Linksys, just from a compatibility issue. You will have an emergency spare if nothing else. For the record if you have a Dynamic IP it is common, though not always necessary, to have to turn the modem off for 20 seconds before connecting a new device.
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Hi everyone:

Great posts. Rob, thanks for a very detailed one. Plus, it makes me feel better that even super tech networkers sometimes have difficulty troubleshooting the problem.

I will plug in the router tonight and let everyone know how it works. I don't want to kick a dead horse as it seems as though this problem is solved, but I want to throw one more thing out there.

When this all started, the symptoms were a very slow Internet connection. Outlook, rather than showing Send/Receive status for three seconds with no email to download, would show it for thirty seconds. Or one 3Kb email would take forty seconds to download. But, the connection DID work. My browser would intermittently connect, but sometimes load a page in a minute. My question with this is: If irwinks is correct that my modem got an invalid DHCP IP address, would that in and of itself cause the Internet to be slow?

Or is that something a router going bad would do? I am not a router hater : ) and trying to blame the router no matter what, it just seems that the modem would either work or not work. ???
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masnrockCommented:
Signal issues can cause some of the exact things you just described. I had a time where my signal was actually too high and it screwed the hell out of my internet connection and my digital cable for two weeks (when they fixed it). So you could've had a temporary case of bad signal which affected your modem.

If the router went bad, it should only its clients (your machines), not the modem. (Unless a power surge hit your modem somehow via your router... not the most likely)

If you got an invalid IP, then it would be one of two things: an IP conflict which would cause poor connectivity OR no connectivity at all.

Modems generally work or don't... but there are different factors that come into play and manifest themselves in strange ways. Weak signal like I mentioned is something that's not your fault or your modem's... it's the cable co. Yet it'll cause problems with connectivity. A bad modem can do the same. However, with plenty of issues, things look fine from the call center's end, and forces them to send out a tech to check it out.
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Thanks Bert,
--Rob
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Bert2005Author Commented:
Wow, that was more difficult than fixing the connection. It can be very difficult assigning points when everyone is so helpful. I actually printed out the Q/A, and it was 17 pages. I had to read every post over and over.

I accepted Rob's answer, because it allowed me to focus on the modem and not just the router. And, masnrock and irwinpks helped a lot.

I have to say that I absolutely love this site. I used to ask questions in Microsoft's news groups and come back in a day and find out no one found my question interesting enough to answer. With Experts-Exchange, one is almost guaranteed three or four people dedicated to helping with the problem.

OK, I wanted to post this before trying the router. Didn't want to lose connectivity and not be able to send this. But, of course, if I am able to set it back up (which everyone seems to think will happen), I will confirm that everything is OK.

One last thing here: I forgot to mention that usually when I test my speed at dslreports.com, I get something like a 4,000Kbs download speed. When I was having the problem with the modem and router, I was getting about 350Kbs download. Now, I am getting only 1200Kbs with just the modem.
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Bert2005Author Commented:
You're welcome, Rob.
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Bert2005Author Commented:
OK, so I just tested again, and I got 4500Kbs download speed.  I am happy with that since it is three times faster than a T1.

I would like to mention again about the factory default. Apparently, it must be a bit more than a reset. I must have unplugged and turned on and off the modem and router and PC a dozen times and nothing. Clicking on Restore Factory Default fixed the whole thing. There is even a reset button on the same page. Prior to this whole thing, I didn't even know one could telnet (if that is the right term) into the modem. I have done it tons of times into my router and switch.

Thanks again. And, did I mention how much I love E-E?

Bert
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
Glad to hear you are back up and running. Performance sounds good too.

Are you actually Telneting in, i.e from a DOS window, or using a web browser? I didn't know those units would accept telnet connections from the LAN side, but then again I have never tried.

EE is great isn't it !  
What I like is how everyone is so pleasant. I find some other message boards have more insults than answers. Also, as you mentioned you often get a response here in minutes.

Have  good weekend !
--Rob
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
thank you
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Bert2005Author Commented:
yw irwinpks

And, Rob, I am using the browser to get into the cable modem. I didn't know it was possible either. I guess I contributed to an expert!

And, yes, everyone is pleasant. I have been told as long as I don't use all caps, everyone will continue to help.
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
I knew the browser was possible but I thought you were using telenet. Telnet is a way from a DOS prompt to connect to numerous devices at a low level. Most modems can be accessed by the ISP, from the WAN side, with more configuration options, but I haven't seen that as an option on the Motorola's. Thanks for clarifying.

Caps say a lot don't they. :-)  Some people get quite offended.

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Bert2005Author Commented:
>>"I didn't even know one could telnet (if that is the right term) into the modem."

See, I knew I had the wrong term. : )

Actually, I hate all caps, too. If, I get an email that is all caps, I don't even want to read it. It's funny, because there are some places in the digital world where all caps works better. I don't like all caps in our office scheduler and certainly not in the progress note, but they work for the ICD-9 code (diagnosis).

Bert
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