graysonwolfe
asked on
Groupwise and Outlook 2003
Howdy from Grady Hospital in Atlanta, Georgia.
In an earlier question about how to use Outlook 2003 with Groupwise there was a lot of chatter about how great GroupWise is and how evil MS is, but the question was never directly answered.
How do you make GroupWise 6.5 work with Outlook 2003 as its client? The GroupWise 6.5 client is not very good (at least compared to the Outlook product).
My question is specifically and exclusively about Outlook 2003 as a mail and groupware client into GroupWise 6.5.
I will not be upgrading to GW7. While there may be some advantage to the "security" of GW that advantage comes more from its rarity than its inherant security. The expertise is expensive and rare, the Blackberry integration is sickly and the third party groupware application set is thin.
Regards,
graysonwolfe
In an earlier question about how to use Outlook 2003 with Groupwise there was a lot of chatter about how great GroupWise is and how evil MS is, but the question was never directly answered.
How do you make GroupWise 6.5 work with Outlook 2003 as its client? The GroupWise 6.5 client is not very good (at least compared to the Outlook product).
My question is specifically and exclusively about Outlook 2003 as a mail and groupware client into GroupWise 6.5.
I will not be upgrading to GW7. While there may be some advantage to the "security" of GW that advantage comes more from its rarity than its inherant security. The expertise is expensive and rare, the Blackberry integration is sickly and the third party groupware application set is thin.
Regards,
graysonwolfe
ASKER
I am not a technical expert, nor do I claim to be. Hence my annoyingly blunt question.
I am an executive in the IT group who prefers the Outlook interface and the ease of integration with my other tools. Little things like that popup that asks if it is ok to spell check each message when you hit send rather than checking as you type - and then asking if you really want to send - Other little things like the query after you click reply make me crazy. Regardless of where you stand on the Microsoft issue - one must admit they are absoulute geniuses at creating interfaces. The outlook interface is better than the same generation GroupWise interface. I will go to the wall arguing that - though it is not really the point of this request for support.
I am not a technical user, and the speed bumps in the client are really all I will ever see of the product (aside from the downtime reports and support invoices that come across my desk). I stand by my statements about rarity based on available information regarding market share. There is no way you can debate that a college educated and certified Novell Groupwise expert is harder to find and more expensive than the same MS Exchange expert. As for the name calling - I get that from the staff here. My interest in these products is not religious in any way - they are tools. The goal is to implement the most effective set of functionality for the most attractive price. Novells acquisition, marketing and product placement blunders have impared its ability to compete effectively when someone like me looks at the 5 year Cost to Own (CTO) and factors in support, hardware, licensing and staffing. I am interested in that "10s of millions number" though. Does that number include active mailboxes or "tradeshow servers"? Tradeshow servers typically have some outrageous number of minimally active accounts running on big iron in the background. IBM is famous for that with Notes. There is not much GroupWise in Atlanta and that is where crunch these numbers. We are a huge Groupwise implementation here with ~10000 seats. We cannot upgrade due to budget restrictions, but I am working on a grant proposal to the Gates Foundation for Healthcare...
Regards,
graysonwolfe
I am an executive in the IT group who prefers the Outlook interface and the ease of integration with my other tools. Little things like that popup that asks if it is ok to spell check each message when you hit send rather than checking as you type - and then asking if you really want to send - Other little things like the query after you click reply make me crazy. Regardless of where you stand on the Microsoft issue - one must admit they are absoulute geniuses at creating interfaces. The outlook interface is better than the same generation GroupWise interface. I will go to the wall arguing that - though it is not really the point of this request for support.
I am not a technical user, and the speed bumps in the client are really all I will ever see of the product (aside from the downtime reports and support invoices that come across my desk). I stand by my statements about rarity based on available information regarding market share. There is no way you can debate that a college educated and certified Novell Groupwise expert is harder to find and more expensive than the same MS Exchange expert. As for the name calling - I get that from the staff here. My interest in these products is not religious in any way - they are tools. The goal is to implement the most effective set of functionality for the most attractive price. Novells acquisition, marketing and product placement blunders have impared its ability to compete effectively when someone like me looks at the 5 year Cost to Own (CTO) and factors in support, hardware, licensing and staffing. I am interested in that "10s of millions number" though. Does that number include active mailboxes or "tradeshow servers"? Tradeshow servers typically have some outrageous number of minimally active accounts running on big iron in the background. IBM is famous for that with Notes. There is not much GroupWise in Atlanta and that is where crunch these numbers. We are a huge Groupwise implementation here with ~10000 seats. We cannot upgrade due to budget restrictions, but I am working on a grant proposal to the Gates Foundation for Healthcare...
Regards,
graysonwolfe
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ASKER
Bill- Thanks for your good natured and genuinely funny response. I am meeting with the GW admin today to discuss POP services on our GW servers.
Im sorry for being pushy and rude. I have a high level of e-mail frustration and it really isn't your problem. It came out here and it shouldn't have.
I was once into horseback riding - long ago- but it ended badly for me and tragically for a friend. The stories are still on the net if you google my name.
Regards
graysonwolfe
gwolfe@gmh.edu
Im sorry for being pushy and rude. I have a high level of e-mail frustration and it really isn't your problem. It came out here and it shouldn't have.
I was once into horseback riding - long ago- but it ended badly for me and tragically for a friend. The stories are still on the net if you google my name.
Regards
graysonwolfe
gwolfe@gmh.edu
Um, graysonwolfe... I gave you a link to the GroupWise 6.5 documentation that explains how to configure GroupWise for POP or IMAP access for using Outlook as a client, in my first Comment.
Regardless of how good-natured and genuinely funny billmercer may be, that doesn't make it right, by Experts-Exchange rules, to ignore my comment and accept a later comment as your Answer. I wouldn't object to a split, but what you did, IMHO, is just wrong.
If you'd like to reconsider your choice, I won't have to whine and complain to the Moderators about you ;). Just post a (free) question in Community Support with a link to this Question asking for it to be reopened.
If you're wondering how you're supposed to handle questions and accepting answers, the Helps are a great guide and are based on the Member Agreement.
https://www.experts-exchange.com/help.jsp#hs5
and under "the big mistakes" category:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/help.jsp#hi104
Regardless of how good-natured and genuinely funny billmercer may be, that doesn't make it right, by Experts-Exchange rules, to ignore my comment and accept a later comment as your Answer. I wouldn't object to a split, but what you did, IMHO, is just wrong.
If you'd like to reconsider your choice, I won't have to whine and complain to the Moderators about you ;). Just post a (free) question in Community Support with a link to this Question asking for it to be reopened.
If you're wondering how you're supposed to handle questions and accepting answers, the Helps are a great guide and are based on the Member Agreement.
https://www.experts-exchange.com/help.jsp#hs5
and under "the big mistakes" category:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/help.jsp#hi104
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Apologies if I stirred painful memories, Graysonwolfe.
The reason I asked that question is because I had actually read about that incident just recently, because it was in the same issue of a magazine as an article I was reading about an Emory professor and a controversy over his take on Hinduism. Just one of those weird coincidences.
The reason I asked that question is because I had actually read about that incident just recently, because it was in the same issue of a magazine as an article I was reading about an Emory professor and a controversy over his take on Hinduism. Just one of those weird coincidences.
graysonwolfe - here's another link to a document you might want to check out. It's a Butler Group technology review of GroupWise 7 from October of last year, and in that they mention GroupWise having an installed base of over 35 million users. Like I said, tens of millions. http://www.novell.com/products/groupwise/butleraward_oct05.pdf
... and that's just GroupWise. That doesn't include NetMail or OpenExchange.
ASKER
Hello Again,
I havent been able to get that "whole office solutiuon" to work. When the tech installed O2K3 on my notebook he did install the whole suite - all set to run on my PC and no luck. It opens the mail just fine, but can't send messages or calendar items.
The final solution - which has worked - was to bully and cajole the support team into enabling SMTP services works fairly well. My admin is rebuilding my calendar - it didn't survive.
I did post a request asking for the ticket to be reopened so that I can split the points but there has been no action on that front.
Regards,
Graysonwolfe
I havent been able to get that "whole office solutiuon" to work. When the tech installed O2K3 on my notebook he did install the whole suite - all set to run on my PC and no luck. It opens the mail just fine, but can't send messages or calendar items.
The final solution - which has worked - was to bully and cajole the support team into enabling SMTP services works fairly well. My admin is rebuilding my calendar - it didn't survive.
I did post a request asking for the ticket to be reopened so that I can split the points but there has been no action on that front.
Regards,
Graysonwolfe
Remember, you'll be able to use Outlook for email only. Your calendar will be yours and yours alone, not synched with your GroupWise calendar, so if anyone wants to make an appointment with you, busy search will be useless to them unless you manually sync your calendar to GroupWise, which means you'll have to use the hated GroupWise client anyway... ;)
Anyway, I don't think there ever was an Outlook Connector for GroupWise 6.5. They kinda phased it out for a while there, between 5.5 and 7. The method for using Outlook with GW6.5 was to use it as a POP or IMAP client. Makes it tough to use any calendaring or other Groupware features.
http://www.novell.com/documentation/gw65/index.html?page=/documentation/gw65/gw65_interop/data/am15u0q.html
I don't understand how you can think that GroupWise's security advantage is that it's not as prevalent as Exchange/Outlook. It's the usual "bla-bla" FUD crapola line that 'softies spout whenever a competing product is shown to be more secure than the corresponding M$ product. There are fundamental technological reasons for GroupWise's inherently superior security, not the least of which is "it's not Outlook," meaning it doesn't have the basic security flaws that Microsoft has neglected to fix or even acknowledge until very recently. GroupWise has tens of millions of seats worldwide. It's not a "rarity."