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connecting xp to novell 4.11

It has been many years since I first put the novell in (back then I knew all about netware, but those brain cells are long gone).   The ipx network number is 1994, so it has been about 12 years.  We run an old dos foxpro program that does specialized printing on about 4-6 different printers.  Started with Novell 3.x and then upgraded to 4.11, but did not do much with nds except the minimum.   About 5 years ago, I had to upgrade the computers to Windows 98.  If I remember correctly, I had to do everything with win98 and novell in bindery mode.  
Now five years later, every single 98 computer's hard drives have died (all Dells), so I cannot go and investigate what I did back then (I do still have a Duracom computer still running win 95 working, the no name computer is still going strong).  So anyway, the new computers are all winxp.  I have perused all the comments in here referring to this matter and they did not help.

One the novell, set bindery mode is O=tdf.  I have three loaded protocols, the virutal_lan with ipx network number 00001994, and both 802.3 (network # 000001E3) and 802.2 network # 000001E2) loaded.  If I remember, 4.11 preferred the 802.2, but I had to load 802.3 for legacy reasons.

I cannot get the xp to see the novell server.  I downloaded the netware client from Novell; I assume it is the latest since it was the only one listed on their website.  I have reinstalled it several ways, with it currently being ipx only.  I can only assume that the Netware client settings are not correct.  It does not seem to auto detect the network, and only with I set it to 802.2 do I get some packets received.  It did see the tree once recently, but when I tried to search for a context, it told me that the tree could not be found.  I am trying to just attach to the server only (bindery mode) but it cannot find the server.

I welcome any suggestions (detailed).  I tried downloading tools from novell (slist) but it did not find anything.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.
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jjackson2004
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jjackson2004
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ShineOnCommented:
Novell is a company.  They sell a lot of different software titles, including more than one OS.  One of their OSes is NetWare.  Please don't call it "Novell 4.11" - you're not calling your desktop OSes "Microsoft 98" or "Microsoft XP" after all..

That said.

1)  Uninstall the client completely, including NICI and NMAS (which installed with the "typical" installation) - you'll find 'em in add/remove programs as separate entries.

2)  Install the client Custom, IPX only, NDS (I know, you said bindery, but that's what bindery emulation is for on the server. The server and the user identities are still in NDS regardless.)  Deselect every optional item you may see, especially NMAS and NICI.

3)  After installing the client, go into the client properties, Advanced Login tab and set NMAS to "No" (it tries to use it anyway, even though you choose not to install it...)  In the Advanced Settings tab, set File Caching to Off and File Commit to On.

4)  In the network properties, go into the properties of the IPX/SPX NetBIOS Compatible Transport and choose a frame type and network number.  It shouldn't matter which unless the legacy software requires the old type, so choose the newer one, 802.2.  Be sure to leave the "Internal network number" all zeros - only set the IPX network number and frame type in the lower-half of the properties page.

You'll probably have to reboot.

You should now see your NetWare 4.11 server.

If your old foxpro program doesn't work, then you'll have to backrev the PCs to Windows 98, 'cause 16-bit support in XP sucks...
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ShineOnCommented:
Oh, on the advanced tab of the NWGINA login screen, fill in the tree name, server name and context.  It'll find it easier.  There was no "contextless login" with NW4.11.  

Using it with Modern NetWare, it's not unusual to only have the tree name box filled in, letting the rest happen behind-the-scenes.  Sometimes, you don't even need to fill in the tree name, if you're using DHCP and DHCP is giving all of that info to the client...
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jjackson2004Author Commented:
Thank you for your assitance.  My Microsoft XP utilizing computer is communicating with my Intranetware 4.11 server.  I figured it was something simple, never imagined it was to exclude all the options upon installation of the client.  Still have an issue with the bindery I believe, I am able to direct to the different printers programatically, but they are not accepting the downloaded fonts.  I will play around with it today and post further questions as they appear.

Thank you again for the quick response. I will be returning to the states Sunday, so this issue will be closed soon.
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ShineOnCommented:
Printer redirect in WinXP is your issue, not bindery.  Goes back to the "16-bit support in XP sucks" thing.  

Depending on the program, you either have to have a special driver running in your DOS session or you have to set up printer redirect (capture) on the WinXP printer object.
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jjackson2004Author Commented:
Possibly, but it could also go back to the program only working correctly under Win98 when utilizing only bindery mode.  Printer redirect by the program appears normal.  I know you want to ignore the bindery issue, but it was the only way that the printing worked under Win98!

Program functions fine; can capture and print normally, specialized printing where page coordinates are used to place output on a specific part of the page works, capturing to 6 different print queues from withing the program works , but the following code not longer appears to have any affect for downloading the fonts (after the appropriate code to redirect output to printer)

    ??mesc+'*c' + mbfid1 + 'D'
    ! COPY /B &mbf1 prn >nul
    ?? mesc + '*c5F'

    ??mesc+'*c' + mbfid2 + 'D'
    ! COPY /B &mbf2 prn >nul
    ?? mesc + '*c5F'

    * ' Names'
    ??mesc+'*c' + mnfid1 + 'D'
    ! COPY /B &mnf1 prn >nul
    ?? mesc + '*c5F'

    ??mesc+'*c' + mnfid2 + 'D'
    ! COPY /B &mnf2 prn >nul
    ?? mesc + '*c5F'
    * ' Check Number '
    ??mesc + '*c' + mcfid + 'D'
    ! COPY /B &mckf prn >nul
    ?? mesc + '*c5F'


Tried modifying the code to use "Copy &mckf /b prn /b" after perusing web sites about the matter and using their suggestions.  But it still does not download the fonts to the printer.  
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jjackson2004Author Commented:
or at least does not appear to be downloading the fonts.
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jjackson2004Author Commented:
P.S.  Thanks again for your assistance.
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ShineOnCommented:
To be bluntly honest, you'd have to prove it to me somehow that bindery login is necessary to download fonts to a printer that otherwise can be successfully printed to.  Having a bindery context defined on the server provides a bindery services interface to NDS, to programs that require bindery services - you don't have to authenticate as a bindery user to access them, AFAIK, and having bindery support enabled on the server does not replace NDS with bindery - it emulates bindery, using NDS.  The program's printing function is unlikely to care how you've logged in to a server as long as it can access the printer.

Then again, it's been over a decade since I've last used NW3.x (the last truly bindery-based server Novell produced) and I upgraded everything to NDS-aware as fast as I could when I upgraded to IntranetWare 4.11 (I got your joke, BTW...) so I don't remember all that clearly what kind of printer service changes might have been involved with the change - other than the print server logging in as an NDS user.  

If there's a specific type of SPX call that's being made from the software in order to download the fonts to the printer, then maybe switching from 802.2 to 802.3 would do the trick.  Perhaps that's why you had both frame types bound to the server.  But, that's just communications transport/protocol, (IPX/SPX frame type),  not authentication/identity services (Bindery vs NDS).

I could be wrong.  It's happened once this year, so far ;)
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jjackson2004Author Commented:
anyway to change the protocol used w/out having to reinstall?

glad to see subtilty is not lost on you.
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jjackson2004Author Commented:
ignore last question please
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jjackson2004Author Commented:
Can't get around the problem, so to beat a dead horse, do you know how to do a bindery only login?  I went to the advanced setting and told it to only allow bindery connections, but that does not seem to do what I would expect it to do which is, to only do a bindery connection.

To answer the earlier question, the only proof that I have that the bindery only login is necessary is that it was the only way to get Win98 to work.  The only thing that I can think other than the bindery issue that could be causing this is that Win98 still used DOS (though I preferred CP/M) and XP does not, but rather an emulation of it.

Running out of time, so I still welcome any suggestions.

I am going to post the code from above in another question to see if anyone else might have suggestions as well.

thanks
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ShineOnCommented:
Whatever other question you post, make sure it's a pointer question to this question, or you'll violate the 500-point limit.
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ShineOnCommented:
I think the key is "prn."  It's a DOS device equivalent to LPT1.  How are you capturing the printer - is it as LPT1?  

Whatever, try changing the COPY line so the destination is LPTx where the x is the numeric printer "port" you're capturing.  Leave the /B before the file variable. A /B before the target file makes it not send an EOF when it's done.

It's a DOS command.  "COPY /B" is copy the binary file.  "&mxxx" is, I assume, a DOS variable containing the font filename and "prn" is the target "filename," and ">nul" directs the "output" of the copy command to nothing, meaning it's not going to display any results in the command prompt window.

That has nothing to do with bindery.  If you can access the printer, you can access the printer.
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ShineOnCommented:
You can test that by issuing the copy command yourself from the command prompt to see if the font file loads, keeping the >nul off the command so you can see if it throws an error at you.

It may also have something to do with the font filename variable - issue the command with the actual source path/filename. Maybe the font file isn't being found?
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jjackson2004Author Commented:
it has taken an interesting twist.  hope i have not violated anything, but the other thread (which I made as a new one since this thread was connecting to a Novell 4.11 :-) server (in the old days, Novell was netware, then came groupwise, and then ....), and the new thread is printing to a hp printer using the copy /b command.   though i brought it up here, it is still a separate  question.  Not sure how to do a 'pointer' question.

If you would like to peruse it :  http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Q_21785136.html

maybe you can wind up with 1k points.
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ShineOnCommented:
"maybe you can wind up with 1k points"

If it would be through answering one question, it would violate the MA limit of 500 points...

... And in the really old days, Novell was hardware ;)

Novell never "was NetWare" - it just was easy for people to look at the big red N and the red software boxes that say "Novell" in white letters and do the "frigidaire/kleenex" thing and call the server OS "Novell."  

Don't forget that, even when NetWare 2 was floating around, they also had Btrieve... ;) and somewhere along the line they had UnixWare, and AppWare, and LANalyzer...
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jjackson2004Author Commented:
In the early days it was, in fact, just Netware, btrieve though it may have been a separate product was always bundled in Netware (and it was written and sold by someone else if I remember correctly) and LANalyzer was from another company in the beginning (though I don't remember it ever being under the Novell label, it was sniffer systems for something like that), Unixware came out later as well as Appware.   They did have network adapters in the early days, which I used many of, but that was hardware and I don't believe that they made it, just resold it.  As far as software it was just netware.  But I will give you that the adapter was there from the beginning of netware.  Do you remember what the name of that horrible procedure was in the beginning where we had to 'build' the product from the numerous disks before you could even install it.  I don't remember what they called that torture but I am now going to have to go looking for the name now.

Connecting to Novell server with win xp and downloading fonts to a hp printer are separate questions.  It would not appear logically to violate the policy, but I could be wrong.  I would think that my violation would be bringing up two different questions in one thread, but then again...
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