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Desktop Booting Problems

hi
today i assembled my new PC (AMD 64 athelon 3000+). But when i tried to boot up the screen is blanck, nothing comes up. i can see the CPU fan running, but i did not get any beep codes. i do not have any idea what the problem is. urgent request help requried.
cheers
kiran
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kiranvvkk
Asked:
kiranvvkk
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2 Solutions
 
burrcmCommented:
Mate, at this point the possibilities are unlimited. Incompatible RAM (likely), dead board, dead power supply, dead video card, short under the board (try it out of the case), CPU fan plugged into the wrong socket - must say CPU fan.

Chris B
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PCBONEZCommented:
Like he said: If everything is new/untested there are LOTs of "could be it's"

Take it down to the absoulte minimum system.
Motherboard, 1 memory stick (unless 2 are required), CPU and cooler, Video card (if not integrated), and keyboard.

No drives connected, no nuthin else connected.. (Except of course the power supply)

In this configuration it should boot to an error screen saying there is no operating system, or it can't find a boot device. (The exact message varies..)

Let us know.
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nobusCommented:
try first booting with the minimum connected :
mobo + cpu + 1 Ram stick, video card, 1 harddisk, keyb + mouse.
If still nothing the culprit is one of the above. try then without, keyb + mouse, and without disk.
if possible, try with another video card (even an old PCI one will do)
check also if the cpu is well seated.
 if you hold the power switch for 5 sec, does it power down? then probably the cpu is fine (at least a section)
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nobusCommented:
...and post the specs please
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kiranvvkkAuthor Commented:
it has an integrated video card. thanks for the advice. i will try once i go home.
regards
kiran
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baconyiCommented:
usually like you said, there will be a series of beeps if cpu/memory failure.. but again, possibilities are many like everyone said,
but this happened to me once with a new system i built for someone, everything was new, and same scenario as your's - no sound or image whatsoever. i changed everything on the stupid machine, i took my machine over his house to swap out parts to test... the very last thing i check was the power supply because EVERYTHING turned on, mobo lights were on, fans, hd/cd rom spinning, power led, everything, but it turned out it really was the power supply even tho everything turned on and seemed ok...
good luck
just suggesting you try the PS first before you pull out your hair like i did haha
Billy
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kiranvvkkAuthor Commented:
hi
like u guyz said
i tried with MSI moboard+1gb stick ram  video card, 1 harddisk, keyb + mouse... nothing happens (i mean screen is blank no beeps)

and i even tried without keyboard and mouse .. no result.

like nobus said when i hold the power button for 5 sec the system switches off.

Baconyi, i havent tried your suggestion. i will try it once i go back home.

kiran

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Craig_200XCommented:
Sounds like a mobo prob. no POST = shot dead.








oh yah...did you push the power button? HAHA I kill myself.
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PCBONEZCommented:
With that drive in there you still haven't isolated the problem to the core of the system.
I told you with -no drives- connected..
On some systems a bad drive or a drive cable in backwards can do exactly what's happening to you.
~ That's why I said to disconnect the drives..
Try it with without drives connected (data or power).

Are/were the fans and the drives spinning up?

Next is to re-verify your memory is of the right spec for your motherboard and to look through your manual to make sure you don't have a jumper setting wrong. (For example some systems have a jumper to switch between integrated video and an add-in video card.) If you have more than one memory slot make sure the memory is in the right slot. It's usually number "0".

Now would be a good time to tell us the motherboard model and info on the memory you are using.

Remove the system from the case and build it on a table. This is both so you can get to things better and to make sure it isn't a grounding problem with the case and mounting.
Put it on a good sized piece of fairly thick, CLEAN, DRY, cardboard. (Works in a pinch.)  

If you have another power supply or memory chip switch them and see if it will boot.
.
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kiranvvkkAuthor Commented:
Thanks Pcbonez

i tried with the drives power connected

the fans are running fine. dvd rom spins. not sure of the hard disk cannot hear any sound.

"Next is to re-verify your memory is of the right spec for your motherboard and to look through your manual to make sure you don't have a jumper setting wrong. (For example some systems have a jumper to switch between integrated video and an add-in video card.) If you have more than one memory slot make sure the memory is in the right slot. It's usually number "0"."
I will try this bit once i go back.

Motherboard: MSI RS482M4-L ATI, All-In-One

Memory : 1G DDR400 (Samsung)

regards
kiran

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Craig_200XCommented:
you would get a POST beep if it were a memory problem... or jumper configuration prob.

no post = MOBO, No Power, Loose Card, or Short.

since you have power, I think you checked your cards (2 or more times).., looked for shorts? I still say check your MOBO! was it locally bought? if so I would drive back and have em check it - if I didnt have another to swap in.

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PCBONEZCommented:
Try with NO drives connected to -anything-.
It's not real common, but common enough, for a bad hard drive to be bad because it is grounded internally.
If it is, it could be overloading your power supply.

1G DDR400 (Samsung) doesn't say enough.
You need:
184 pin DDR400 (PC3200)
unBuffered
non-Registered
non-ECC
2.5 volt

There is a note in the manual that says this board does not support memory modules with more than 18 chips on one module.

If you only have one module it needs to be in the green slot labeled DIMM1.

The board supports Athlon 64 3000+ in the (CG version) or (D0 version) or (E3 version) or (E6 version)
Is that what you have?

Power to the motherboard:
You must have either:
One 24 pin connector to the PSU.
or
One 20 pin connector AND one 4 pin connector to the PSU.
[ The 4 pin is square with 2x2 connectors and goes to JPW1 ]
- You motherboard supports both options.
If you have the 20+4 pin arrangement then make sure the 20pin is in the correct position in the 24 pin connector on the board. (You should not be able to put it in the wrong way but with too much force it might go in.)

If all this is good and you get nothing with the core system then you are looking at the:
PSU
Motherboard
Processor
or Memory
...... Being bad.

What's next depends on what you have available to you for swapping things to check them.
Replacing the PSU or the memory is easiest.
.
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kiranvvkkAuthor Commented:
thanks PCbonez.

this may sound really stupid, i connected both the 24 pin connector and the 4 pin pconnector on to the mother board. i do not know wheather it is right or not.

sorry it was a typing mistake before i tried connecting witout any drives. (but nothing came up).

kiran

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Craig_200XCommented:
Nothing wrong with that ... the 12v supplys power to the CPU...
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PCBONEZCommented:
I'm not sure what you mean.

In the motherboard you have a 24 pin connector and a 4 pin connector.

If the power supply has a 24 pin plug all you need is that one in the 24 pin connector.

If the power supply has 20 pin and the 4 pin plugs then the 20 pin goes in a particular position in the 24 pin connector on the motherboard (leaves 4 pins empty) AND you connect the 4 pin.

If the power supply has a 24 pin and a 20 pin and the 4 pin, just use the 24 pin.

If you connected a 24 pin from the PSU and the 4 pin then, no, that's not right.

The extra 4 pins on the 24 pin plug and the power in the 4 pin plug are electrically the same (connected together through the motherboard - they go to the same places.).
They provide the same voltages and have the same pin-out but they may come off different 'rails' inside the power supply. Unless the power supply is a REALLY bad design this probably won't have damaged anything.
.

If I understand you correctly you have fixed the power plugs and stripped it down to minimal and it still isn't booting???
.
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Craig_200XCommented:
IM looking at that mobo manual right now.

From the MOBO GUIDE (Page 2-9):

"The mainboard supports ATX power supply for the power system. Before
inserting the power supply connector, always make sure that all components are
installed properly to ensure that no damage will be caused.

ATX 24-Pin Power Connector: ATX1

This connector allows you to connect an ATX 24-pin power supply. To connect
the ATX 24-pin power supply, make sure the plug of the power
supply is inserted in the proper orientation and the pins are aligned.
Then push down the power supply firmly into the connector.
You may use the 20-pin ATX power supply as you like. If
you’d like to use the 20-pin ATX power supply, please plug your
power supply along with pin 1 & pin 13 (refer to the image at the
right hand). There is also a foolproof design on pin 11, 12, 23 & 24
to avoid wrong installation.


ATX 12V Power Connector: JPW1
This 12V power connector is used to provide power to the CPU.


MSI Reminds You...
1. These two connectors connect to the ATX power supply and have to
work together to ensure stable operation of the mainboard.
2. Power supply of 350 watts (and above) is highly recommended for
system stability.
3. ATX 12V power connection should be greater than 18A."

There is nothing wrong with connecting BOTH power connectors.

NO WHERE in the manual does it say install ONLY one OR the other. In fact it specifically says (as above) they work together.
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kiranvvkkAuthor Commented:
yes Pcbonez
you got me right i have connected both the 24 pin power connector and the 4 pin power connector to the motherboard.

iam worried now wheather it would have damaged my motherboard.

.."If I understand you correctly you have fixed the power plugs and stripped it down to minimal and it still isn't booting???" -- yes

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PCBONEZCommented:
Craig . I'm an Electronics Technician. Go look at some power supply schematics.
-- As I said. The board doesn't care but the PSU might depending on it's design.
Other than that, thanks for repeating what I said.
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PCBONEZCommented:
kiranvvkk
It won't hurt the motherboard.
It might hurt the PSU -if- it's a cheap outdated power supply.
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Craig_200XCommented:
I dont think MSI would have given you both connecters AND omitted the all important fact that you will blow your mobo if you plug both connectors in. THAT would be negligence in its highest form.


I would NOT be worried.
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PCBONEZCommented:
AS I SAID 2 OR 3 TIMES NOW... It would NOT hurt the motherboard.
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Craig_200XCommented:
PCBonez - Your an electronics tech? ok - doesnt mean your a good one. SO WHAT? I have worked with electronic boards for over 20 years and passed computer electronics certifications a few times... this doesnt negate my experience or my ability to read the manual. WHICH IS A POWER SCHEMATIC btw..  If you say he plugged it in wrong its your opinion based on experience, no offense. As I said I LOOKED at the manual , if you had looked at the manual, you would not have seen any disclaimers from the manufacturer saying what you said.

Like I said, I didnt repeat what you said.. I copied the page on the power supply setup FROM the manual.. and it doesnt say what you said. You in fact said he SHOULDNT plug both in.. thats WHY I copied the manual page... dont get mad at me.. I was just assuring him that the manufacturer doesnt say you CANT plug both connectors in as you said he couldnt.

Maybe YOU should take a look at a power schematic, it might just help you.
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PCBONEZCommented:
Craig:
I'm Certified by the Federal Government to work on Control Systems for Nuclear Reactor.
Have been since 1981.
I know just a little bit about auctioneering DC power, filter, and regulating circuits.
I've built PSU's from scratch because I needed more power in less space than factory made PSU's offer.
And I'm not going to explain how a PSU works to a Black Box Tech..
.
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Craig_200XCommented:
No offense, but why are you telling everyone that? it doesnt matter, no one is questioning your ability

SIMPLY: I was just clarifying what the MANUFACTURER mobo manual states and doesnt state about the power supply connectors.

You said he SHOULDNT plug both power connectors (24pin and 4pin) ... then later said its ok. then said it might hurt the CPU.... fine.  

DONT get mad at me for clarifying the manual. Which Ill bet money you didnt read. If you DID you wouldnt have said he shouldnt plug the connectors in.

You were wrong in that statement above and I clarified it,  whats the big deal?

This is a learning forum, not a whos right whos wrong. lets STICK to the problem and FIND the solution.
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PCBONEZCommented:
Craig
YOU DID question my ability in your last post
"Your an electronics tech? ok - doesnt mean your a good one."
YOU DID offended me.

I didn't say it would hurt the CPU I said it could hurt the PSU. (Reading problems?)

The fact that the manual does not say 'not' to do it DOES NOT mean it's 'okay'.
The manual doesn't have warnings or say to not stick the RAM in a PCI slot either does it?
By your thinking that's okay....

So now Mister Craig the Stroker Ace:
Please tell us what happens when you parallel two regulated DC power supplies (in this case power rails) with different sized Inductors and Caps in the Filters as very well could be found in a poorly designed PSU. (I qualified what I said with "power supply is a REALLY bad design". - More reading problems?)
So please tell us Craig... What happens??

No more on this.
- We are here to help this guy
- If you wanna argue with me then email me.
.
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Craig_200XCommented:
OK PCBonez - I agree with you. Im sorry I questioned you or your ability - and lost track after you told me to go read a schematic (  when I was reading one )

ANYWAY back to the problem at hand:

The manual does say that both power connectors should be plugged in - as they work together. Optionally he can use a 20 or 24 pin for the main connector. If the board is dammaged that should not have caused it.
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nobusCommented:
one thing to try : take the mobo out of the case, and put it on a cardboard, then start it up. you may have put in too many stand-offs, thus shorting something on the mobo
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kiranvvkkAuthor Commented:
thanks a lot guys for helping me out.

i removed my existing powersupply (550W) and tested with another PSU(400W). i removed all the drives.
no improvement.

like nobus said may be i need to take the mobo out and test.
kiran
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PCBONEZCommented:
Good next choice.
Once you have it out where things are easy to see and get to, remove and reinstall the CPU and memory.
~~~ Don't forget the thermal paste!!! ~~~ And don't use too much!!
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kiranvvkkAuthor Commented:
Thanks a lot guys for helping me out.

i took the mother board to the store where i purchased it from, the problem was some of the sasung DDR Rams are not compatible with the AMD 64 bit processors.

changed the RAM and the system works fine

i want to thank PCBONEZ and Criag_400 for their time to help me out

cheers
kiran
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Craig_200XCommented:
Thank you for the generous assist Kiranwkk!

Glad you got it working!

I think that PCBONEZ should get all the credit for this one.

Lemme know if you want me to get you those points Sam!...  you deserve it ...good work !!
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