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Newly Built PC Thermal Shutdown - not consistent

Hello,

I have just build a Pc with Intel D945PSN motherboard, Intel processor (Pentium 4 3.06 MHz, LGA775 package), 2Mb dual-channel memory (all 4 slots) in an Antec P150 case. I did not use additional thermal grease between the processor and fan. The cpu fan seems to be securely attached (locked) to the motherboard.

Additional components are an SATA HD, floppy amd CR-RW/DVD-Read IDE Drive. Power supply is ATX12V ver. 2.2

With case fan (92mm) at high speed and the case side off, the PC shuts down after a few minutes with a thermal shutdown message. There was no speaker sound(siren sound), before shutdown.

The processor zone and two temperature threshold zones are clear of cables and air flow does not appear to be restricted.

Now the interesting parts:

(1) The above ocurred in my home office (cooled @ 73 deg.) with the Antec case side off. What follows is with case closed.

(2) Running the PC in my workshop (not cooled, 5 degress warmer) for an hour the shutdown problem did not occur.

(3) Running the PC in my home office *and* booting from WINXP Pro installation CD,the shutdown problem did occur when windows was starting.

(4) Running the PC in my workshop *and* booting from WINXP Pro installation CD,the shutdown problem did occur when windows was starting.

(5) Running the PC in my workshop for a couple of hours with no CD the shutdown problem did not occur.

I have looked at http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-012552.htm, Intel Desktop Boards Thermal Zone Information. Except for BIOS update and Intel® Active Monitor (can't install), I believe all conditions are met.

What's going on (cpu working harder at boot?) and how to I fix problem?

Cheers, Jim
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MARSPATH
Asked:
MARSPATH
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7 Solutions
 
CallandorCommented:
Is the cpu fan plugged into the cpu header on the motherboard?  Is the heatsink flush against the cpu and not loose (you shouldn't be able to move it much)?
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MARSPATHAuthor Commented:
>>Is the cpu fan plugged into the cpu header on the motherboard?
Yes, I paid atention to this detail.

>> Is the heatsink flush against the cpu and not loose (you shouldn't be able to move it much)?
Yes, when I push the corners, the motherboard flexes and the heatsink seems firm.

PC has been running in workshop for 1-1/2 hours (boot CD loaded twice) with no thermal shutdown.

A point I didn't mention earlier: In workshop, no peripherals (keyboard, mouse, monitor) are connected as they are in my office.

Cheers, Jim

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CallandorCommented:
When you said "I did not use additional thermal grease", is there any thermal grease at all?  You should use very little, an extremely thin layer, but that can make a difference in heat transfer.
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MARSPATHAuthor Commented:
>>When you said "I did not use additional thermal grease"

I meant I did not use any thermal grease beypnd what was on the fan/cpu mating surface, as recommended by the Intel motherboard manual. That square of thermal material (perhaps 1/2" square) seemed OK.
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garycaseCommented:
To begin with, let's assume the heatsink/fan is correctly mounted and you have a good thermal bond.   This SHOULD be true, since you used the Intel boxed unit.

This sounds like a power-related issue.   First, to check the "simple" things first, did you connect the ATX auxiliary power connector?  (the 4-pin connector that plugs in close to the CPU socket).

If that's connected, then you MAY have an inadequate power supply.   430w "sounds" like a lot, but with modern systems it's not all that much.   Section 2.11 of the technical reference for the D945PSN shows the DC loading characteristics of the board.   This shows a minimum load of 275w, and a max load of 500w.   You didn't mention what video card you're using, so it's hard to say where in this range you are => other considerations are you have a P4 instead of a Celeron (but not a dual-core);  you have all four memory slots filled;  you didn't say whether you have any add-in PCI cards.   If you have a fairly high-end video card it's very likely your total power requirements are simply more than you are providing.

Post the exact details of what you have in the system:  add-in cards, video card make/model, etc.
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garycaseCommented:
... Note that the 275-500w draw of the motherboard does not include the power for the hard drive, optical drive(s), floppy drive, case fans, etc.   You SHOULD have adequate power for your system with the power supply Antec ships with that case; but if you happen to have a high-end video card you may not.
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MARSPATHAuthor Commented:
>> did you connect the ATX auxiliary power connector?
Yes - this was stressed in the manual.

The video card is an ATI Raedon X1300 256Mb PCIE. I have no other add-in devices, just 200Gb SATA HD, floppy drive and CD-RW/DVD-Read.

Still of interest (to me anyway) is that with the PC in my office (~ 73 Deg.) the thermal shutdown occurs consistently, though in less time as the machine runs longer. Starting with a WINXP Pro Installation CD seems to decrease the time to thermal shutdown.

In my workshop, the PC will run for > 2 hours with out thermal shutdown - this is just moving the PC to another area in the same building. I will continue this experiment. There does not seem to be a consistent pattern. Perhaps I should run without the video card to see in any difference.
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garycaseCommented:
Please clarify a couple of things:

(1)  Have you actually installed XP on this machine?

(2)  How are you monitoring the temperatures?  (if XP's installed, I presume it's with Intel's utility;  otherwise I'm curious what you're using)

(3)  How do you know the shutdown's are thermal events?

(4)  With no keyboard, mouse, or monitor (in the workshop), how do you know that the system is running okay?
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PUNKYCommented:
Seem to me you are having a defective motherboard. If you monitor the thermal event in BIOS, then see if you can disable related thermal warning / shutdown. If you able to do that, then start to install windows os. I had Intel Motherboard before and experienced with such issue, then I changed mobo Intel to mobo Asus, guess what? system boot and start working great since.
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jimilicaCommented:
As I've seen this your problem starts when you start using the CD-ROM device.
It seems to me that is a power supply issue since it's running properly before using
aditional consumer (CD-ROM). Have you tryed changing the power supply to a bigger one?
If so what was the difference in temperature?

The intel processors are known heating much but not that much to cause this problem.

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dcsdaveCommented:
All I can say is that Intel needs a better design for attaching their CPU heatsinks.  

Don't get me wrong I like Intel's product but on more than one machine I have had to put on an aftermarket CPU cooler.

All were a success by the way.  One even dropped the CPU temp by 10 degrees Celsius.  

Some of the clips on the OEM coolers didn't even lock completely on the motherboard.  

It's like the cooler needs a certain pressure along with the proper amount of Intel heatsink compound or something.  

The best reasonably priced quiet CPU coolers I have found are from End PC Noise.  Good Luck.
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MARSPATHAuthor Commented:
>>Have you actually installed XP on this machine?
>>How are you monitoring the temperatures...
I have been unable to install XP as thermal shutdown occurs before installation CD can start Windows.
From BIOS, Processor temp is 105 deg. C, Internal temp is 40 deg. C, Remote temp is 30 deg. C,

>>How do you know the shutdown's are thermal events?
Upon restart (in office with monitor, etc.) the system beeps (a two-tone sound like UK sirens) and the monitor displays "The CPU was previously shutdown due to a thermal event (overheating)"
Processor Fan Speed: 2080; Rear and Front speeds are 0, though Rear fan is operating - no connection to motherboard available.

>> With no keyboard, mouse, or monitor (in the workshop), how do you know that the system is running okay?
I guess I really don't, so I have moved to office.

>>Have you tryed changing the power supply to a bigger one?
No, but certainly a solution to consider, if I can find one to fit! (Antec Truepower 2.0, 550 Watts - ATX12V Version 2.0?)

>>If you monitor the thermal event in BIOS, then see if you can disable related thermal warning / shutdown.
No BIOS dialog to do this.

This link, http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-012552.htm, states Processor Zone limit is 75 Deg. C using Intel® Active Monitor or Intel® Desktop Utilities - Not BIOS.

Based on the above, not sure if problem is overheating (Processor temp?) or insufficient power supply.

Any thoughts?
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CallandorCommented:
If only changing the location causes the PC to work or not work, have the power outlets checked.  An unstable or out of range voltage can cause the power supply to work harder and possibly shutdown.
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willcompCommented:
It's time to remove CPU cooler, clean off the old thermal tape, and reinstall cooler using new thermal compound.

Something just isn't right here.  Try another power supply if reseating CPU cooler is not effective.

A note:  I've seen Intel CPU heat sinks that did not quite make good contact with the CPU leaving an air gap.  I fixed problem by using silicone thermal compound which can be applied in a rather thick layer.

Now we await further edification from GaryCase.
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willcompCommented:
Is power supply set to correct input voltage (115 or 230V)?

A good quality power supply such as an Antec can accomodate a fairly wide range of input voltages.  I suspect that a house wiring problem sufficient to cause problems would wreak havoc with other devices and you would know.
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MARSPATHAuthor Commented:
>>Is power supply set to correct input voltage (115 or 230V)?

Antec Powersupply (NEO HE 430) spec states 100 --> 240V OK. Also BIOS values looked OK.
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garycaseCommented:
"From BIOS, Processor temp is 105 deg. C" ==> OUCH !!   Yes, that's WAY above the processor's thermal spec (70C).   Clearly, to quote willcomp, "Something just isn't right here."

I'd agree the next step here is to remove the processor heatsink; clean it well (both the heatsink and the top of the CPU -- a bit of isopropyl alcohol on a clean rag will get what you can't scrap off with a credit card); and remount it with a good thermal compound (e.g. Artic Silver 5).

If that doesn't help, I'd try a better power supply.   The Antec you noted would be okay, but I'm personally a big fan of Seasonics, which are exceptionally efficient (waste less power and run much cooler), rock-solid, and very quiet.   This would be excellent:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817151024
... or if you want a LOT of headroom, this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817151025

willcomp -- r.e. "Is power supply set to correct input voltage ..." ==> If it was set to 230 (in "115 land")   the system wouldn't even turn on :-)    (If it was set to 115 in "230 land" it would have "fried" when it was turned on)    Another nice thing about Seasonics -- they have a universal input;  you can plug them in to 110, 220, etc. and they work just fine; no switch to set :-)

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garycaseCommented:
... Obviously (from Marspath's post) the Antec also has a universal input :-)
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garycaseCommented:
BINGO !!

Marspath -- In re-reading your question, I noted that you used a 3.06GHz CPU.   I believe the only 3.06GHz Pentium-4's were 533FSB CPU's.   Your board does NOT support this processor !!   I suspect this is what your problem is :-)

Here's a list of the CPU's that your board supports:  http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/sn/sn_proc.htm
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MARSPATHAuthor Commented:
My error, the CPU is Pentium 4 630 3.0GHx, 800MHz FSB... which is in the list you linked.

My sincere thanks to all who contributed to this posting. I learned a lot.

My efforts will be directed toward improved CPU cooling and. if necessary, upgraded power supply.
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willcompCommented:
Gary, from wonderful experience, some PSUs set at 230V will power up with 120V input.  System is flaky, to say the least.  No experience the other way around since I haven't had the pleasure of European assignments.

If it truly is a 3.06GHz CPU, Gary's probably correct and a 533MHz bus (133 x 4) mobo is required.
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garycaseCommented:
Well, since you DO have a supported CPU, it's back to the previous suggestion, as you've already indicated you're going to do:  focus on the heatsink's thermal bond; and if that's not it, upgrade your power supply.

Dalton - I'm surprised a system would power up with a 230v setting.  Must have had one heck of a voltage regulator circuit to get close enough to power on with only 1/2 the input voltage !!  Not surprised the system was "flaky" :-)

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