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Posted on 2006-04-03
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hi everyone,
ive been reading some posts but nothing to my specific problem/question...
when we create users on SBS (clients with stand alone exchange works fine) sometimes thier email account doesnt get created.  not just the exchange mailbox, but the email address and account info under the properties of the user account---- until we reboot.  other times it might take 10-15 mins before the account shows up in the properties but a number of times we've had to wait til after hours and reboot the server for the info to show up, or if its an important person that needs this account setup right away, we have to call everyone in world to make sure they stop accessing documents or whatnot and reboot.

anyone know if there is a patch or fix or is this normal? i dont think its normal because it doesnt happen to ALL our clients with SBS but this is what we determined so far:
 -ALL of the above situation only happens in SBS
 -NOT ALL SBS's are effected
 -NOT all users are effected on the effected SBS's

we've tried restarted the exchange service but that doesnt work, we've logged on the user in/out, user being created was a copy of a "template" user which has worked in the past (again, this doesnt happen all the time, but we use this template all the time to create the users).

if anyone knows about this or has heard about it let me know, even if theres no solution I'd like to hear that we're not the only ones experiencing this problem.  but so far i couldnt find anything of the same on here.
thanx
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Question by:baconyi
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by:Zadkin
Zadkin earned 400 total points
ID: 16365469
SBS is not a standard Exchange server.  As the SBS mantra is use the wizards, are these SBS mail accounts created through the SBS "Add user wizard"?
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Saineolai earned 800 total points
ID: 16366435
This sounds like the recipient update service has not run on the user account.  This service is responsible for populating those details.

Have a look at this page http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/MF017.html

You can manually force it to run through exchange system manager, under recipients, recipient update services.  Right click on the two entries and select update now.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy earned 400 total points
ID: 16368407
How are you adding new users?  Hopefully with the add user wizard in the Server Management Console.  This is the ONLY way a user should be added on an SBS.

If you are using this method, then it's possible that your User Template has become corrupted.  The best thing to do at that point would be to reinstall the Administrative Tools through the Unified Installation of SBS.  

If you are unsure how to do this please let me know... it will be important to know if Service Pack 1 has been installed on this server.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:baconyi
ID: 16371127
we add users thru the normal active directory users and computers, thing is though, its always worked aside form those times i mentioned, which is more of an annoyance than a problem...

because as you all know, sometimes its not possible to just reboot a server during office hours, and this past year, we've created maybe 10-15 users between our clients that have SBS, and about 5 of them we needed to reboot.  3 of them were from 1 client thats why it became a concern because they are wondering why we have to tell everyone to shutdown to reboot when users are created...

when we add a user through ADUAC, it does ask to create a mail account, which like i said, many times it works, within 10 mins the account shows everything and the exchange box is there once we log the user on.  but in some cases (more than prefered) nothing happens til a reboot.

i guess let me know more about reasons why adding users the way we do are wrong? because 2 of you mentioned we should be using the wizard...
thanx
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by:baconyi
ID: 16371174
just spoke to my boss, he said he tested a few users, and one them didnt have info again, he restarted the system attendent service and the info came in...
not sure if that was the solution but any more info from you guys will be appreciated...
will up and split points because it looks like a number of things you guys are suggesting... keep me posted, thanx again
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Expert Comment

by:Saineolai
ID: 16371608
The recipient update service is a sub component of the system attendant.  Please have a look at this document and the URL posted earlier.  They describe your issues.

http://support.microsoft.com/?id=319065
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by:Saineolai
ID: 16371642
I also agree that you should always use the wizards via the server management console when using Small Business server.
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by:baconyi
ID: 16371726
thanx guys for the info, thank you saineolai - you're right that system attendent controls the RUS, we will configure that when we get a chance but until then if this happens again, we know we can easily restart the system attendent service without disrupting the entire company.... although we know that the file server should be on its own in cases like this, but we mainly deal with medium to low level companies which want to save as much $ as they can, so everything just about is on one server except 2 terminal servers in this particular company which they need all the resources they can get on them...

id still like to know more about what the difference is, or what the pros/cons are with adding users with the wizard vs. the ADUAC. thanx
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16373364
There is a lot of difference in creating users with the wizard (which is really just a SCRIPT).  First, I've never seen the need to reboot to create a mailbox!  Plus, the process uses a TEMPLATE which has all appropriate permissions and group membership.

But if you look at the add-user wizard log (found here: C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows Small Business Server\Support) you will find that this is the detail of what transpires when you use the wizard:

A user account will be created with the following properties:
      Full name: John Doe
      User logon name: John
      E-mail alias: John
      Home folder: \\SBS\USERS\John

The following template will be applied to this user:
      User Template

The user will be added to the following security groups:
      Remote Web Workplace Users
      Domain Users

The user will be added to the following distribution groups:
      DomainName

SharePoint access will be configured for the user through the following site groups:
      Reader
      Contributor
      Web Designer

The user will have the following disk quota:
      Disk space limited to 1024 MB
      Warning sent at 900 MB

It should be noted that there are other AD entries which are not shown in the log which take place when using the wizard.  For instance, the user is created in the default OU for users under MyBusiness.  There are some instances with SBS management that will not accept users that are not created with the wizard.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16373372
Also... you DO realize that a user mailbox doesn't really get created until that user logs in for the first time?

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:baconyi
ID: 16381247
yes, as i said in one of the posts that not only mailbox, even after logging the user in, the email address info in the properties of the user account doesnt even show up...

but adding users with the active directory users and computers under administrative tools does the same thing?  if i right clikc and add new user, it asks me for name, account, passwrod, to create a mailbox or not in exchange, and the user gets created... thats why i didnt understand why it was different with the wizard.. because in essence, when i click add user, it sort of goes thru a wizard step by step and even asks for the mailbox name or alias.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16382397
What OU are your users in?

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:baconyi
ID: 16382461
we created a new OU <company name>_users, the system users folder is still there but we like to keep new/created users seperate incase the clients want to go in and check things...

when you guys say the wizard, i went to manage server, and clicked on manage domain users, it just brings up the same snap in as Start - program files - administrative tools - active directory users and computers... thats why i was asking isnt the wizard the same as directly going into the ADUAC then going to my OU, right click - new - user?
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by:baconyi
ID: 16382503
techsoeasy, ive created a new question if you can use that one to continue our convo.  i will award more points to you for taking the time to explain things to me.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16382810
That's your problem... you can't create a new OU... you MUST keep all users and computers in the default SBS OU's.

Put them all back in the MyBusiness OU.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16382841
P. S.  Creating a new question is against the rules... so I've actually deleted it.  Thanks for the thought though.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16382848
FYI, review this paper to see what I'm saying about the AD OU's:  http://sbsurl.com/itpro

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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Author Comment

by:baconyi
ID: 16382972
well technically this isnt part of my orignal question... i awarded points, then asked for more insight, so technically i shouldnt have asked a question within a question right?... ok anyways, i read part of the article, lots of info, thanx... i guess im looking for an explanation why but i should just follow the rules :)  i just dont get why it wont work but in standard windows it works fine... i guess the design of sbs is just that much different... thank you.
Billy
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16383674
Well, I believe that the solution to your original question was found only once I determined that you had moved users out of the Default OU's -- this would absolutely cause such behavior because it renders the add-user wizard kinda useless.

The main reason WHY is because the wizards (which are really scripts and can be edited as such if you like) are pre-configured for the default settings.  If you change where things are, you will need to edit the wizards to comply.  

It's really important to remember that SBS has a UNIFIED ARCHITECTURE which is somewhat of a house of cards (although I really don't think that metaphore does it justice) -- however it is true that all of these parts are reliant on the other parts in order to stay standing.  If you move one of them without moving the other, then you're likely to cause problems.  The wizards allow you to make simultaneous configuration changes to all server parts which are affected by a modification.... thus keeping everything in tune and standing strong.

The advantages of this architecture are numerous... mainly SBS is VERY RELIABLE and VERY INEXPENSIVE.  Two qualities that you don't often hear said together when describing a server.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:baconyi
ID: 16383850
ok...we never used the wizards, just the admin tools - AD users - right click and add new user, same as standard 2003, but occaisionally we ran into that email account problem but we never knew why.  and strange thing is it doesnt happen to all users we create.  but i will take your advice and from what i read in the article you posted for me, and start using the wizards for our SBS clients.  Thanks again for taking the time to explain details for me.  sometimes it feels like too much to know :)  cheers to all you people with the expert knowledge.
Billy
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16384673
no problem... fyi, here's too much to know:  http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2004/06/24/8898.aspx

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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