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attaching LAN cable to brick wall

Posted on 2006-04-03
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i need to attach LAN cable to brick wall.
do you know any hardware i can do it?
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Question by:Hiroyuki Tamura
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by:Callandor
Callandor earned 180 total points
ID: 16362221
This will depend on building codes in your area.  A qualified electrician or architect can tell you what is needed.
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by:FuzzyAmoeba
ID: 16362237
glue?
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by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 16362240
thank you, callndor!

if i do it by myself, am i violating anything?
i live in new york.
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by:Hiroyuki Tamura
ID: 16362271
what kind of glue can i use?
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by:jdietrich
jdietrich earned 80 total points
ID: 16362285
I've done this quite a few times.  I don't think you'll find much on code related to data cable.  If it is multiple pulls, best bet is to enclose it in PVC.  A thin PVC works well, and can be painted if preferred.  To attach you will need a masonry drill bit and a drill that has the "hammer" feater.  When pre-drilling the holes you'll feel the hammer drill surge which helps to create the hole.  You can use metal clips to hold the PVC in place, in the screw/nail section of Home Depot they have masonry screws that will screw right into the brick withoug
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by:jdietrich
ID: 16362306
No to glue.  Yes, you can do PVC in NY, I'm in NJ, I did a warehouse in NY
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by:Callandor
Callandor earned 180 total points
ID: 16362362
PVC is a great idea - leave a string inside that is twice as long if you think you need to pull more wire in the future.  Electrical power cables are the ones that need metal conduit (to protect against rats).
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by:ECNSSMT
ECNSSMT earned 160 total points
ID: 16365398
You can use the surface mounted housing (they may be called runners) with the surface mounted terminal boxes.  I think you can get them at HomeDepot, otherwise its blackbox, or some other equivalent network hardware place.  And attachments can be made with mason screws.  If its in NYC, if you are in a unionized building, you will have to let the building do that for you. Otherwise, for fire codes they may require plenum cables for fire code or cable housing that prevents the spread and oxygenation of fire.

Regards,
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by:GinEric
GinEric earned 80 total points
ID: 16375383
Any drilling on any brick property in any city requires approval of the property owner.

I would think that in New York City if you drill a guy's wall without telling him, he could, legally, make your pay to rebuild the whole structure.

You don't just go off and take some internet surfer's advice on drilling someone else's property.

If someone took a hammer drill to my wall without my permission, they would at least be no longer living there.

Does that make sense to you?  So, where'd you move to New York from?
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by:GinEric
ID: 16375403
P.S.: if you "stick" something to the paint or wallpaper of a wall, you will be charged for repainting or re-wallpapering the entire aparment.
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ECNSSMT earned 160 total points
ID: 16388541
Hi GinEric,
Dang gum, if'n I wassa gonna be putin upa buznus in a dang partment, it be kinda intrestin' to see how a buznus stick all 'em com-puut-ers and buznus pe-poes ina onez bedrum partment.  

But on the serious side, much of the work space modifications are usually spelled out in any contract between the business occupant and the management company.  Modifications in a unionized building will have to be done by unionized people.  In non-union buildings, you get the contractors to do the work, per the clauses in your contract.  Nuff said about that.

As for the apartments you elluded to:
I guess, you haven't lived in a regulated brown stone, or the NYC projects.  I really can't imagine anyone putting in serious server, workstation and the support equipment into.  There are serious electrical issues that will prevent that.  Most of the turn of the century buildings are lucky if they have 2 20 amp lines going into an apartment; 1 20 amp line is usually the norm. The projects are just about the same.  As for drilling; good luck on anything heavy duty considering the insides of a brown stone are still plaster.  Anything that has a modern sheet rock has already been converted to condos or co-ops.

Condos; you own everything in your apartment and depending on the board, moderate levels of modifcations are innately allowed with the exception that you can't do anything that would effect the superstructure or alter the edifice.  
Co-ops are probably the most stringent with by-laws that specify HOW you hang a picture.

Also, putting up a business in a residence is illegal and will get you evicted (the managing agent has to have irrefutable proof )

We won't get into residential tenant laws... to say the least, they tend to be tenant friendly.

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by:GinEric
ID: 16433599
NYFD Code ppdfieefahddk1330dss##%<M3adkjd???: Section 1!:  If a gnat enters any public building within any borough with the intention to flagellate therein, said gnat shall be requred to register first with the City Planning Commissioner's Office of Gnat Residential & Business Gnat Tenant Code's Office of Gnat Flagellation of the Incorporated City of New York City, it's boroughs and causeways.  Failure to do so will result in the eviction of said rat [strike "rat" here and amend to "gnat"; rats are exempt under Aricle 455 hereof, Subsection 3, Clause 2 of the City Health Code Titles pertaining to NYFD Titles, incorporated herein by reference.] from the jurisdiction of this Ordinance No. 329543283350-A-01111, Section 1, Subsection 1, Paragraph 94348 therof and in accordance therewith.

Yeah, I get the point.  But how is a kid going to make it out of the projects if he can't have a server, eh?

I can just see the "Server Sqad, Bronx," raiding some illegal server for juice violations.  I also thought you had to be union to stick a Home Depot calbe sticky thing on the wall, especially in a brownstone.

I currently live in a brownstone, having evade the "Server Police" by joining up, and moonlighting by joining a few trades unions.  I know all about the plaster problems!  Darn mortar bit jumped right off the slat under the plaster and now I can't hang a shelf with just a simple lead anchor.  Might have to tear out the whole wall and sheetrock it, or just leave it as bare brick.  Gets kind of scarey drilling into the bare brick wall though.  Every ghetto kid knows you just get your uncle, who works for Conn Ed, the climb the pole and run a second line off the block transformer to get 220; oh, sorry, you were talking about the circuit breakers.  Well, maybe uncle can put in a 200 Amp service box while he's at it.

You can still hate New York, even if you love New Yorkers.
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by:ECNSSMT
ID: 16445151
Hi GinEric,

>NYFD Code...accordance therewith
That's worse gibberish than my 1st paragraph.

>But how is a kid going to make it out of the projects if he can't have a server, eh?
Getting out of the projects is not a function of knowing computers.  I know one guy that use to live around 111th St and CPW who is teaching in upstate NY.

>..."Server Sqad, Bronx,"...
You're talking residential now, 1 or even 2 computers is manageable powerwise.  If you use decorative runners (that was what they were called), depending on the enforcement, you may be asked to take it down.  
But because its residential, building management going into a residence is random and you may have to invite them in depending on the situation.  e.g. how often does your superindentent go into your apartment? But again, the laws are tenent friendly and if you do get cited, you will be warned several times before anything happens, housing court is cost, time, and labor intensive.

> ...Gets kind of scarey drilling into...
Isn't that a little extreme, especially for an apartment?  It sounds like you are adding $300-$500 of materials (not including $ of labor) to 100 meters of cabling that won't cost more than $30.

> ...climb the pole...
What pole(s)?  Where in the Bronx do you have power poles?  And at 200 AMPS... You may still see them in WhitePlains and points north.  Otherwise for the last 15+ years everything has been underground protected at junctions by heavy manhole covers.  This at least keeps the idiots away who thinks that they can handle a high voltage circuit.  
If there are any poles left, they are purely for phones and cable TV.

Regards,
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by:GinEric
ID: 16448689
I was being sarcastic.  It never ceases to amaze me that no comedian in New York City can take a joke, know what I mean, but they can sure make fun of others.  I own a brownstone; and no longer in New York City, therefore, I don't have to ask permission to work on my property.  I forgot that after the Bronx was proclaimed "Ground Zero" for looking like Beirut or Bagdad, some smart guy in Manhatan decided to buy all the projects and use them for his TV show: Work for The Lazy Donald!

I do know that every code, local, state, federal, is based on a single secret law: Get that double-dipping pension by writing nonsense and call it "The Law."

And I was just warning the poster that should he decide to drill a wall, he had better own it first, preferably, outside of New York City.  Any portable drill and a mortar bit, with some kind of shield or lead anchor will do for mounting an electricians "wall clip."  The clips are usually allow or aluminum in various sizes.  You don't actually need a hammer drill to drill brick, since these are usually for concrete, which is harder and often contain rock.  The pasties will not hold up, not even on wallboard, wood, or plaster.  Conduit is a little expensive and not really necessary.  If we don't go "into" a wall, we try to use the hung ceiling and just drop the cable wires from corners, then decorate over them with a thin strip of something like drape material, or art nousveaux [something like that orange junk flaggie stuff in Central Park that totally turned the park into "Logan's Run" Center.  I still can't imagine how inverted U-shaped girders in orange with stupid drapes on them made the park look like anything other than a gaudy corporate walkway, not what I would call "a park."  I can see the lawsuits now when some kid bangs into one of these ugly things.

Anchors, lead shields, work fine for brick walls and hold any weight.  But dropping from ceiling in corners and decorating is easier and faster to undo when you need to, more portable that way.  Just a creative solution from places like Home Depot and Lowe's.  You can also buy some PVC pipe for conduit and run it up and over like those U-Shaped monstrosities in the park; they glue together quickly, have elbows, and a platform to hold it upright might simply be a glued on based of some kind at each end.  You don't even have to glue the elbows and that makes them easy to take down.  Plus, you can hang some nice "mobiles" on them, etc..

That should be well under $300.00, but the shields and clips come in at under $10.00

I pay $5.00 for 100 fett of CAT5 or whatever.  Works fine for a LAN.  I get them from Chinese guy when he's clearing inventory.  Also, a good flea market will have them cheap.

I doubt that anyone has 200 Amp service there, probably 60 Amp or 100 Amp at most, and undergrade code wire of 14 guage from the days of "the cheapest we can get away with" construction.  Our electricians will not work on a property with AWG 14, especially 14-2 faked as 14-3 unless the owner first rewires the entire premises up to what is actually safe, not what the outdated fire safety code says is safe.  This is 12-3 with 10-3 for heavy current lines.  Rehabs and new construction are required to run conduits, square and not round, under floors, in walls, etc..  Which makes the future "pulling" of wiring and cabling a lot easier and a long term solution that will cost the customers a lot less when they need to upgrade to fibre optics in the near future.

Phones and cable tv are also going underground, this is pretty much becoming law all over the U.S. because our country looks so ugly with all those poles, poles don't conserve the Rain Forest or Oregon, and, in the end, they are far more expensive than underground causeways such as there are all over Europe.  It's a lot easier to work on the underground stuff than to hook and ladder to a block distribution transformer point to work on cable or phone or electric too.  Too bad Edison and Bell didn't see this.

If I were in an apartment in New York City, I would seriously consider the decorative approach and stay away from drilling and sticking things on walls.
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by:ECNSSMT
ID: 16449714
Are you still being sarcastic?
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by:GinEric
ID: 16451700
not sarcastic about the decorative approach.  It's portable and violates no ordinances.  There are also ordinances about the difference between a permanent structure or improvement and a temporary one, under tenant law, etc..  Nor about the cables going underground; it took decades to get past ugly poles and their lobbyists to make our planet look a little more like a place you'd want to call home.

But that monstrosity in Central Park has got to go!

Orange monster!

That is not art; that was a way to give someone's relatives a big fat paycheck and call it art!  It actually made the park ugly, did not fit in at all with the very idea of a park [you know, trees, grass, "Away from Manhatan and all that steel and glass?"  I don't have to ask what idiot approved it and called it art.
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by:Callandor
ID: 16455159
>But that monstrosity in Central Park has got to go!

Uh, that was only up for a little while.  It's been gone for more than a year: http://www.nyc.gov/html/thegates/html/about.html
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by:GinEric
ID: 16470342
Haven't been there for over a year, maybe why I didn't notice.

Thanks for the link.
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