Telling Windows to use UTC

Ok..let me post this agin since nobody cares to reply to my question below...I have asked nicely but at least someone should have the nerve to admit that they dont know so I can move on...Am I in a wrong forum or what?? Why am I having the silent treatment all of a sudden? Care to explain?


 I am dual-booting Windows 2000/Solaris operating systems and my INTERNAL CLOCK is set to UTC...by doing this in Windows:
HKLM/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Control/TimeZoneInformation/RealTimeIsUniversal
(REG_DWORD = 1)

Also telling Solaris to do the same with a command..

The ACTUAL DISPLAYED clocks on both desktops are set to local time (PDT)...

But per the instructions, after telling Windows to use UTC by creating that new registry key,  then after that, it says to go in the Date/Time settings in the Control Panel and CHECK the box "ADJUST TO DST AUTOMATICALLY".....

If UTC time is CONSTANT or does not adjust during DST....then why does the instructions say to check that box???

Heres the instructions for Windows below:
=========================================
Here is a non temporary fix to this problem (from Casper Dick's blog):

- tell Windows to use UTC:

Set the following registry key (it does not exist!)

HKLM/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Control/TimeZoneInformation/RealTimeIsUniversal (REG_DWORD = 1)

In the control panel with Day&Time settings, check the "automatically adjust" check box.
===========================================


Thanks
slajoh01Asked:
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Rob WilliamsCommented:
It would be a very long question if everyone posted they didn't know  <G>
I think you are in the right place, and it is a good question, but perhaps not a common one that people have the answer to. I certainly don't. However, the following link outlines the values assigned in the time zone information area of the registry, and what they are for, and may help you to tweak to accomplish your goals. Perhaps it will at least give some insight to get started. You may be ablt to manually create the "DisableAutoDaylightTimeSet" key to solve the problem.
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/14966/14966.html
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ChatableCommented:
That's because Windows still shows the time as local time and you still set a time region for windows for that purpose.
The automatic DST tells Windows to add an additional hour to the time zone (for instance, suppose you are located in Europe then your time zone is GMT+1, but during summer it's GMT+2).
Now this is especially important if you use UTC. This means that the real hardware clock is set to a fixed time zone all year long (There's no DST in UTC). Therefore you can't manually set your clock one hour forward when DST starts (because that would also set the hardware clock one hour forward and then it wouldn't be UTC anymore. The solution is to enable automatic DST because then Windows will change the local time zone rather than set the hardware clock.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
So if my CMOS clock is set to UTC....I would have to ENABLE or CHECK the box that says "ADJUST CLOCK TO DST TIME"???
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ChatableCommented:
If your country operates daylight savings then yes - So Windows can adjust your clock an hour forward without actually changing the CMOS clock.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Another question:

What if I set Solaris to DISPLAYED time or clock to UTC and leaving Windows on LOCAL TIME? (leaving the box checked automatically)..
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Yes..we have DST changes.....And my CMOS hardware clock is set to UTC...the way I wanted to be...And both OSses are displaying LOCAL TIMES...

But one more question:

What if I set Solaris to DISPLAYED time or clock to UTC and leaving Windows on LOCAL TIME? (leaving the box checked automatically)..

Will this cause any problems?? Even when the hardware clock is set to UTC time?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
EDIT>>

 Yes..we have DST changes.....And my CMOS hardware clock is set to UTC...the way I wanted to be...And BOTH Windows and Solaris are displaying LOCAL TIMES...

But one more question:

What if I set Solaris to DISPLAY the time or clock to UTC and leaving Windows on LOCAL TIME? (leaving the box checked on "automatically change time on DST")..

Will this cause any problems?? Even when the hardware clock is set to UTC time?
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ChatableCommented:
It will still work. Once you set the "RealTimeIsUniversal" and reboot, Windows will always set the CMOS clock to UTC. The local time that is displayed will then be a local conversion done by Windows and NOT stored back to the CMOS clock.
If we take the daylight savings time example again, when it's time to convert to DST, Windows will not modify the CMOS clock at all (Unlike what it would to if the RealTimeIsUniversal were set to 0 or absent) - it will only mark that the time zone has changed (for instance from GMT+1 to GMT+2) and display the local time accordingly.
Solaris may (or may not) have its own local conversion. The only thing you should worry about is that Solaris also knows that the CMOS clock is set to UTC and not try to set it to the local time.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
So if I set Solaris displayed time of UTC...and leaving Windows on local time...would that cause problems during DST time??

What I should do? just leave the both O/Sses to local time? Is that the best way to do it?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Yesterday I did some tests and here are the results and the things that i did:

 did the test on my machine since I dont have another machine to test it with.. Heres what I did:

1. Set Solaris to UTC...

2. Logged off and booted into Windows. Changed the LOCAL TIME (manually) 1 hour back with the "adjust to dst automatically" being checked.

3. Resarted the machine...Then went back into Solaris and now its showing the correct UTC time...

4. And the INTERNAL CLOCK is still left as UTC...I forgot to mention that..

OK...a bit of test results for you...After logging off Solaris now...and booting to Windows again, I noticed that the WIndows time was showing 07:45....instead of 06:45...Like I said, I set it ONE HOUR back...and then it seems like it got switched AHEAD back to the normal hour automatically to 07:45 again...

So..what do you think??? Did these test results seem to be suited for my needs??

Ok...I switched back to LOCAL TIME in Solaris and then after doing that gain, I logged off and booted into Windows again..Nothing changed in Windows...It still had the original time...thats good...

SO....I guess keeping the INTERNAL CLOCK or the CMOS CLOCK in UTC helps alot...

So what do you think about the test and my results?? Does it suit on what I was asking for?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
So if I set Solaris displayed time of UTC...and leaving Windows on local time...would that cause problems during DST time??

What I should do? just leave the both O/Sses to local time? Is that the best way to do it?
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ChatableCommented:
Open your date and time properties and check the "Current time zone" label at the bottom. If it states "Foo Daylight Time" (rather than "Foo Standard Time") and you are indeed during the DST part of the year then this is expected and normal.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Im not on Windows at the moment and I dont understand your last post..

Anyway...

So if I set Solaris displayed time of UTC...and leaving Windows on local time...would that cause problems during DST time??

What I should do? just leave the both O/Sses to local time? Is that the best way to do it?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
I just want to set the DISPLAYED time or clock in Solaris to UTC and avoid issues that may conflict during the next or future DST changes..
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Edit >>

I just want to set the DISPLAYED time or clock in Solaris to UTC and leave Windows to LOCAL and avoid issues that may conflict during the next or future DST changes..
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ChatableCommented:
And that's what you did. The real clock is UTC but Windows background-converts it to local time.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
I dont think you really understand as to what I want to do.

I am planning to use UTC as the displayed time in Solaris and leaving Local displayed time on Windows....I know that the CMOS Real Clock is set to UTC already..I know...

But what would ahppen if I were to set the clock in Solaris as UTC leaving Local time in Windows while the CMOS clock is already set to UTC?

Will this cause any conflicts with the next DST change?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
In other words...If I were to set the displayed clock panel to UTC in Solaris while the Real CMOS clock is already set to UTC, and WIndows is set to LOCAL, will the time in the clock panel in Solaris change back to local? Or, will it still read as UTC during the next DST time change?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
You see...thats what I want it to do during the next DST change...

Is I want WIndows to remain local and Solaris to be kept in UTC...( for the desktop clocks)..while the CMOS clock is still set to UTC..

Do you understand?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Windows can set its local time clock automatically...I DONT CARE...But...I want Solaris to use its desktop clock or time in UTC so I will not have to change it there in Solaris...

Hope you understand..

Now my question is...will this cause any problems??
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ChatableCommented:
As I said - no.
Since every country in the world operate DST differently, you cannot create a "universal" DST scheme. For that reason, UTC has no DST at all (actually UTC is simply GMT without DST).
First of all - You've configured Solaris to display time at UTC. This means that it won't do DST changes at all.
As to Windows, The "RealClockIsUniversal" registry key tells Windows that the CMOS clock uses UTC rather than local time. This means that when Windows switches the computer from "regular" time to DST (or back), it won't change the CMOS clock at all. It will only mark that DST is enabled so when it displayes the local time, it takes an additional hour forward. The CMOS clock is always UTC and is not modified by DST changes. However for that reason you cannot set the clock manually (because that would change the CMOS clock) and you need to use the automatic DST settings.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
EDIT >>>

 Windows can set its local time clock automatically ( converting from the UTC CMOS clock)...I DONT CARE...But...I want Solaris to use its desktop clock or time in UTC so I will not have to change it there in Solaris...Can this be done while the CMOS Clock or Real Time clock is set to UTC?

Hope you understand..

Now my question is...will this cause any problems??
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ChatableCommented:
If you set Solaris to display the time as UTC then it will display it as UTC. As I said, the real CMOS clock is always UTC and Windows will not touch it during DST switches. Since all changes will be Windows local then Solaris won't even notice them.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
But....

My question again...And I understand that the CMOS clock does not change when it is set to UTC..I know..

But if Windows local time changes the the local time automatically using that UTC conversion from the Real Time clock (UTC)...will Solaris's clock (on the desktop) WILL change or NOT when THAT clock (again Solaris's)...is set to UTC??? As I do NOT wanted to change in Solaris if I set it to UTC...

Hope this is clear enough..Im sorry.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Quote:
" If you set Solaris to display the time as UTC then it will display it as UTC."

I know....But Im talking about DURING THE DST changes....

But if Windows local time changes the local time automatically (IN WINDOWS) using that UTC conversion from the Real Time clock (UTC)...will Solaris's display clock (on the desktop) WILL change or NOT when THAT clock (again Solaris's)...is set to UTC??? (DURING THE DST CHANGE)...

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slajoh01Author Commented:
EDIT >>>>

 Quote:
" If you set Solaris to display the time as UTC then it will display it as UTC."

I know....But Im talking about DURING THE DST changes....

But if Windows local time changes the local time automatically (IN WINDOWS) using that UTC conversion from the Real Time clock (UTC)...will Solaris's display clock (on the desktop) WILL change or NOT when THAT clock (again Solaris's)...is set to UTC??? (DURING THE DST CHANGE)...In other words, will Solaris change it back to LOCAL TIME (from UTC) DURING the Daylight Savings Time or it WILL remain as UTC?? I am only referring to Solaris at this point.
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ChatableCommented:
Why would it change back to local? You configured it to display UTC and you didn't change the configuration ever since.
If the time displayed by Solaris is indeed the correct UTC time (Should be if you set the timezone to UTC) it will never change since UTC does not implement DST (therefore there will be no DST changes made by Solaris), and since the Windows changes are not written to the CMOS clock - The only clock shared by both systems - Any change would not be even noticed by Solaris.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Quote:
"If the time displayed by Solaris is indeed the correct UTC time (Should be if you set the timezone to UTC) it will never change since UTC does not implement DST (therefore there will be no DST changes made by Solaris)"

And just to confirm..your referring to the DISPLAYED time right??

Again just to confirm this...

1. The REAL TIME CLOCK is set to UTC

2. Windows uses LOCAL TIME

3. Solaris (DISPLAYED) time is set to UTC...I know and it is...I can see it on my desktop panel area..

Now..just to confirm this lastly and for once:

When the next or future  DST time change occurs, Will the displayed time (in Solaris) will still indicate UTC or will it go back to local since the REAL TIME CLOCK is set to UTC??

And I already know that Windows WILL change its local time automatically going by the REAL TIME CLOCK conversions...

Thats all i want to know lastly and to confirm.

thanks

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ChatableCommented:
Actually Windows internally uses UTC as well, it just displays local time. But yes, basically each system will display what it was configured to.
When the next DST change occurs, the real time clock won't be modified at all since both systems recognize it as UTC and thus not a subject to DST changes. Solaris will do absolutely nothing because its own time is also UTC, and Windows will change its conversion to reflect the change.

P.S. - I just checked a bit. You might still want to test it since the RealTimeIsUniversal value is not officially supported by Microsoft. It's actually a residue from a really old version of Windows that Microsoft never bothered to either officially adopt or remove. People who have tested it reported that usually it does work but in some cases may cause problems (for instance, if you use a kernel debugger).
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Interesting...But I did in fact the checked the BIOS and in under SYSTEM TIME it DOES read as UTC...

You keep on telling me that the REAL TIME CLOCK when set to UTC DOES NOT CHANGE...I already know that...

All I need to know, is that when the next DST change occurs, will Solaris actually go back to local time if its DISPLAYED time is set to UTC right now?

So my current time and clock settings are like this like I posted in my last post above:

1. The REAL TIME CLOCK is set to UTC..thats fine with me...

2. Windows uses LOCAL TIME....

3. Solaris (DISPLAYED) time is set to UTC...I know and it is...I can see it on my desktop panel area..

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ChatableCommented:
Check your Solaris timezone settings (I believe it's in /etc/TIMEZONE but I'm not a Solaris expert, I do have Linux experience though). If it's set to UTC then you're cool.
Also why won't you give it a test? Set your clock to the date when the next DST change occurs in your country boot both Solaris and Windows and see what happens.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
It is set to UTC....Actually, I dont know when the next DST time change will occur though...I heard that they will extend it through November...Anyway....How can I know when the next DST change will occur so I can do the test???

And do I have to set my clock in Windows the night before or something?? How would I do the test? Please explain...

For example: If the next DST time chnage occurs on lets say....Nov. 10, 2006....then how would I set the date and time for  the test??? Please explain.

Thats a good idea...Because the test that I posted above is NOT actually done on a DST change period...so I think this test will be more accurate..

Please explain...
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Also, how would I know when the DST occurs on what date and time??? They said it would be in Nov. this year. So how would I know? Is there like a website to go on and check? I live in So. California...
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slajoh01Author Commented:
And...as soon as I know that...then please explain how would I set the date/time?? Do I set it the night before or something???  Because it always changes on 02:00 in the morning here.

Because I dont want to wake up 2 in the morning and do the test then...So is it better to just set the date of the DST change the night before...before I go to sleep?
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ChatableCommented:
You can check (and modify) your DST settings for Windows using a tool called tzedit, which can be found on the Windows 2000 installation CD or downloaded for free from:
http://www.petri.co.il/download_free_reskit_tools.htm
It will tell you exactly when the next DST change is due. Then simply set your clock a minute earlier and wait.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
What do you mean a minute earlier??? Please post an example please...
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Or better yet...Please post the steps to follow in order to do the test please after installing that tool..
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slajoh01Author Commented:
So i have to wait until the next DST change is in order to do the test????
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slajoh01Author Commented:
I DO NOT want to edit the timezone...I just want to test if this will work or not...Thats all.. and when the next DST will occur in my state.

Just please post the test procedures in steps please.
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ChatableCommented:
Just open the tool, select the timezone you're currently at and click "Edit". This will open a new window that will show when the next DST change is due. Write this down and click cancel to settings for that zone are not modified.
Now to do the test just set your PC's clock a few minutes before that time (and preferrably reboot your computer) and see what happens.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
You mean REBOOT BEFORE actuallt doing the test itself...or after setting the minutes before?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Ok..I got it..

The next DST change will occur on last Sunday of October at 02:00 AM

So what do I do next? Should i set the clock 01:58 AM and then REBOOT right after that? Or, wait for the change to occur and THEN reboot?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
So ahould I set my date to the last Sunday of Oct. and then set the time to like lets say....01:57 and then reboot....??? Or, should I reboot after the change?
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ChatableCommented:
Try both. That'll make sure that any changes would go through the real time clock.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Suppose I set the date on the last Sunday of October and then set the time as being 01:55 AM....Now...should I wait till the change occurs while the PC is on??? Or, should I just reboot right after setting the time to 01:55 AM and wait until 02:00 AM hits and THEN reboot?

thanks
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slajoh01Author Commented:
I just want to get prepared for this...thats why the reason for all these questions...I am not going conduct it today though sometimes next week...And I'll post back...I just want to relax this weekend AWAY from the machine...

But please answer this question before I go...Thanks...AL lI want to know is the REBOOTING thing..thats all...

Suppose I set the date on the last Sunday of October and then set the time as being 01:55 AM....Now...should I wait till the change occurs while the PC is on??? Or, should I just reboot right after setting the time to 01:55 AM and wait until 02:00 AM hits and THEN reboot?

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slajoh01Author Commented:
I did the test WITHOUT REBOOTING and my PC totally froze...It got change 2 hours ahead...And then when I rebooted...it got changed to the normal time before the test...

I set the date as Oct. 29 2006 01:59....and then I waited till it reached 02:00..then it got locked up and then it was changed to 03:00 and then to 04:00...then I had to do a cold shut down because I caould not even have the shutdown console to popup...and then after booting up, it got the normal time of April 8 2006 11:30 PDT...I guess I should not mess with it....And guess I'll have to find out during the actual DST time change...

But however...the good news....is that Solaris still had the correct UTC time.....Thats the good news!!!!!
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slajoh01Author Commented:
But in any case...during a normal DST change when the CMOS clock is set to UTC....I SHOULD always ENABLE OR CHECK the box that says: "ADJUST TIME TO DST"???

I am referring to the ACTUAL DST time and not the test that I just did...

Why is there a delay in the replies?

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ChatableCommented:
Change the time to 1:50am and immediately reboot so the change will be written to the CMOS clock.
Then boot to Solaris and check that the time is displayed correctly as UTC.
Then boot to Windows and wait for 2:00am. Check that the clock is set forward/backward one hour as expected.
Then boot again to Solaris and check that the clock has not changed at all (apart for the few minutes that elapsed).
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Do i have to change the time WITH that box CHECKED to ADJUST DST TIME AUTOMATICALLY?

And when you say reboot immediately right after changing the time to 1:50am...after the rebbot..you want me to to boot into Solaris??? Right??

Just to confirm.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
I'll follow up with this later on the week..OK??

Just please confirm my last question above for me if you can..

So when I conduct the test. I should leave that box checked that says "adjust DST time automatically...right?
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ChatableCommented:
Yes, that box must be checked.

Here's exactly what I want you to do:
1) Set your time (under Windows) to 1:50am
2) Boot to Solaris - Check that the time is the correct UTC time corresponding to 1:50am in your local time.
3) Boot back to Windows.
4) Wait for 2:00am. Your clock should be set back/forward one hour.
5) Boot back to Solaris - No one-hour change should be indicated.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Anyway....

I do have this GUT feeling that WINDOWS will indeed change the clock to its normal time after rebooting...As it did on the last test.....Because the fact that the "ADJUST DST TIME AUTOMATICALLY" is checked...

Now...I guess it would NOT go back its regualr time if that boc was NOT chaecked...Thats what I want to confirm here...
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Ok...

On the last test that I did..I did set the time to 1:59 AM...(without rebooting) and when it hit 2 AM...my PC locked up...I dont know why...Maybe because I did not reboot?

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ChatableCommented:
If that box was not checked, Windows would not do ANY changes regarding DST, but then when a DST change does occur you would end-up with Windows showing your local time one hour back and without being able to change that (because if you set your clock one hour forward manually, that would also set the real CMOS clock).
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slajoh01Author Commented:
So why did WIndows lock up after the change occurred?? And why was it set back to the normal time after rebooting?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
So in Windows...you want me to change the time by going into the Date/Time properties and adjusting the time in that slot just under the Analog clock with the hands on it? You want me just to highlight the whole section and then press the backspace key and then enter 1:50 AM?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
I still want to know why Windows locked up on the last test
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slajoh01Author Commented:
So you want me to WAIT for the 2 AM to hit WHILE the computer is under Windows? Or you want me to reboot or boot to WIndows after it had reached 2 Am??
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ChatableCommented:
Many greater and smarter people than both of us together tried to answer the question why Windows locks up and failed. I don't know... maybe it's the tide or because you didn't stand on your hands when the change occured ;)
But seriously, Let's check it again so we can know whether it was a one-time issue or indeed a problem that prevents the change from going.
Yes, I want you to set the clock to 1:50am, not forgetting of-course to set the date for the next DST change.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Same problem....LOCKS UP...I even manage to restart it after the lock up..I had to do a cold-shutdown...

Anyway...The UTC time in Solaris is correct...just like before...But Windows manages to set it back to the correct time again after rebooting..

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slajoh01Author Commented:
not forgetting of-course to set the date for the next DST change.

Well, I forgot that.. I then had to go back to change it....My fault...

But thats not the issue...on why it locks up...
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ChatableCommented:
When exactly does it lock up?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
After I clicked on APPLY and OK...

Solaris is fine...But Windows is still locking up..

And I dont want to do the test again because I dont wanna have to do a cold-shutdown again..I dont want to destroy my HDD all because this bullshit.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Uhhhh???? Hello???
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ChatableCommented:
You mean it happens every time you attempt to change your computer's time? Again I have to verify that it happened more than once.
If it still hangs, you can also change your time via the 'date' and 'time' commands on cmd, or through Solaris.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
I guess you have a hard time understanding me or something...I dont know...

Here I go again and this is the last time I will explain this:

Solaris is OK...it has the correct UTC time..But evertime after I change the time in Windows for the next DST change, after I hit apply and OK it hangs...and it freezes...
WHY???

Understand now?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Is it possible that that box is checked?? thats why???

Im telling you ....that box NEEDS to be UNCHECKED no matter how many times you say it to check it...It has to be checked...or else WIldows will play a tug-of-war between the CMOS clock (UTC) and the local times..

I cannot understans on why your telling me that the Adjust dst automatically NEEDS to be checked???

It has to be UNCHECKED...Thats why its going back to its current times..
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ChatableCommented:
OK, that's what I asked you - Does every time change in Windows causes it to freeze? So I offer you alternatives so you can change the time without having your machine locked-up.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
I dont know..It freezes up during the test that you told me to do thats it.
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ChatableCommented:
Just like that? Without you doing anything?
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Well....dont bother...I dont wanna screw up the machine..We'll have to just wait till DST time comes around which in fact...comes in November this year...They extended it I believe...

So..thanks for the replies and I will have to just waited it out instead of doing the tests...Thats all.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Now..the clock under Windows is changing the time to UTC automatically....It this this yesterday also....when I booted into Windows..The local time was correct...But after 10 minutes or so..it got switched to UTC on Windows..

Weird.
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Problem...

Yesterday this happened also..

Yesterday I booted into Windows and it showed the local time...And after about 10 minutes or so, I glanced over to the clock and it changed to UTC time...Then I changed it back manually to local time, and I this morning I booted into Windows again and it did the same thing..It showed the correct local time but after 10 minutes or so I looked over to the clock and it shows UTC time...
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Also, the Hardware clock is still set to UTC...No problem there...Also, last weekend I set Solaris back to local time after I did the test...

WHy is Windows doing this???
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slajoh01Author Commented:
Im telling you...now...it keeps on changing to 7 hours ahead for no reason now...It does this after booting into Windows like 40 minutes after....

Can you please help me with this?
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