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Egg come first or Hen

Now this is a brain boooooogling question



does the hen come first or the egg :) any one knowss  this one ???
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lov_hacker
Asked:
lov_hacker
6 Solutions
 
☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
Dinosaurs were popping out of eggs way before chickens appeared
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ozoCommented:
Fish were laying eggs long before hens existed
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freebuddyCommented:

The egg came into existence after the chicken. If there's need for an explanation, let me know and I'll provide it.

Peace,

FB
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WelkinMazeCommented:
Hey man, don't you know the Bible?
The Hen is made by a Rooster's rib ;) So who cares about the Hen or the Egg ;)
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freebuddyCommented:

I know the Bible. With all due respect WelkinMaze, you are not well-informed about the Bible's content. In fact, it was a woman that was created from the rib of the man, not a hen from the rib of a rooster, :) There has been a very well explained theory about the Hen and the Egg, which came first, etc.

Peace,

FB
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thoffmanCommented:
What's the explanation, FB?

Personally, I think a hen layed laid an egg. Then, through a freak time travel accident, hatched from the very egg she had laid.

--
Troy
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Galisteo8Commented:
We should teach the hen-from-rooster-rib theory alongside that of the woman-from-man-rib theory in our schools.  You know -- ensure that the "other" side gets heard.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
The egg could not possibly have been "manufactured" without the help of the "factory" within the chicken#.  

The egg is an extension of the womb, a "packed lunch" for the developing embryo.  The coating of the egg (the shell) is made up from stuff that the chicken has eaten.  There must have been some evolutionary advantage for the chicken to lay an egg rather than carry the embryo around for the whole gestation period which outweighed the disadvantage of the egg being eaten by a predator.

#Whether the animal that laid the first egg can be formally classified as a chicken is another matter.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Galisteo8: Are you a fan of "The Far Side" by any chance?
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
In my dictionary, egg definitely appears before hen, although chicken comes before egg...
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Philip PinnellCommented:
At some point something that was not a hen laid an egg from which something that was a chicken/hen hatched.
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harfangCommented:
Excellent point, andy, but was that egg a "chicken egg" or a "non-chicken egg"???
(°v°)
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muso120999Commented:
> At some point something that was not a hen laid an egg from which something that was a chicken/hen hatched.

A point brought up in another P&R (Philosophy and religion) thread, but that isn't strictly true.  There is no such clear dviding line between pre-proto-chicken, proto-chicken, and chicken.  Also, arguably they are still evolving...

But then again, there would have also been proto-eggs too...
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muso120999Commented:
> does the hen come first or the egg :) any one knowss  this one ???

Naturally the egg does.  Alphabetically.
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Philip PinnellCommented:
>Excellent point, andy, but was that egg a "chicken egg" or a "non-chicken egg"???
>(°v°)

Aaah well that's the point. It is a definition thing.
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muso120999Commented:
> It is a definition thing.

"Chicken" isn't in the question:

hen
n.

   1. A female bird, especially the adult female of the domestic fowl.
   2. The female of certain aquatic animals, such as an octopus or lobster.
   3. Slang. A woman, especially a fussy or nosy old woman.
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harfangCommented:
> Also, arguably they are still evolving...

Well, at this point, we make them.

About the definition of specie, it's relatively usable synchronically (no interbreeding = different species), but biologistst haven't been around long enough for a good diachronical definition... Find some old chicken-looking bones, and watch them argue!

But I guess we are missing the really important question here:

Why did the egg cross the road?
(°v°)
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gilbarCommented:
obviously, the roster came first, who didn't care whether the hen came or not. as far as the egg coming, that's just wrong
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moorhouselondonCommented:
>Why did the egg cross the road?
Ah the old yolks are the best
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aiailaCommented:
i think people got it all wrong all these years. its the hen and the rooster that came first. which able the hen to produce eggs.
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neopolitanCommented:
Argument for the egg:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question85.htm
Argument for the chicken:
http://www.galactic-guide.com/articles/6R37.html
For none:
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/chicken_egg.html
A treatise on the subject!:
http://radicalpedagogy.icaap.org/content/issue5_2/04_garner.html
And Finally:
The answer depends on your perception and belief.
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freebuddyCommented:

Thoffman, you can check the links Neopolitan posted. There is a theory that speaks about species before the chicken, which were non-chicken, and that they created with another non-chicken another "non-chicken", which in fact due to some changes and evolution matter, it became the first real chicken, our nowadays chicken. So, the egg came first, then the chicken came and reproduced.

Good day,

Freebuddy
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harfangCommented:
> So, the egg came first...
Quite so. But was it a chicken egg? The yolk was produced by a proto-chicken hen, from proto-chicken genes; the egg generation followed all genetic instructions of a proto-chicken egg. Only once cell on the surface of the yolk was the zygote of a chicken.
So, do not ditch the question: was that egg a chicken egg?
(°v°)
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Galisteo8Commented:
>Galisteo8: Are you a fan of "The Far Side" by any chance?

Why, yes I am, Moorehouse.  :)


>There is no such clear dviding line between pre-proto-chicken, proto-chicken, and chicken.  Also, arguably they are still evolving...

Up next: The pre-post-modern chicken...
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muso120999Commented:
> So, do not ditch the question: was that egg a chicken egg?

The question states "the egg".  Nothing of the properties of being "of a chicken" are given, nor implied.

As per the dictionary.com reference, "the hen" could even refer to a female octopus.

So, what kind of question *are* we left with?  Which came first, an octopus or an egg? And came where? From where?
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moorhouselondonCommented:
>does the hen come first or the egg :) any one knowss  this one ???

Something that has not so far been mentioned is the fact that in most Supermarkets the Chickens come before the Eggs.  

Do designers of Supermarkets unconsciously do this, or do they have meetings to discuss it?  
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techn125Commented:
Feathered-birdlike-egglaying-nonchicken-specie #1
mating with
Scaled-birdlike-egglaying-nonchicken-specie #2
=
mutant-feathered/scaled-birdlike-egglaying-specie #3, which goes by the moniker 'chicken'.

The mix of reptile / bird marriyng best of both world at the extreme of the wild life spectrum also explain why everything taste like chicken and chicken taste like everything.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
>Up next: The pre-post-modern chicken...

Are you referring to the legendary Big Cock?  They do exist, as this photo should prove...

http://www.tomrobinson.com/personal/manwith.htm
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☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
This thread is getting overegged
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harfangCommented:
And I always thought the the eggs came from the Bunny ;)
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HuntyCommented:
I think you've all got egg on your faces now.  ;-)
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asian_niceguyCommented:
So the chicken and the egg were in bed. The egg rolls off the chicken and says to the chicken -

"Now we know the answer to THAT question!"
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borislavmarkovCommented:
The egg is first, but this is not the egg of a hen.

This is egg that your mind has formed.

Thus we may say: first you have the idea(egg) then you come to an action (hen)
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jitendra_wadhwaniCommented:
What ever you will order(at restaurant) that will come first........
Kidding...

Hen came first.....

Because Chicken will not come out from egg untill and unless hen will sit on it and provide the heat....
While Egg can come out from Hen....

Today you can be able provide that the similar atmosphere so that chicken should come out of egg, but in those days it was not possible...I hope you understand those days..
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
>>any one knowss  this one ???

I do, it's by Ry Cooder:


You may be a hater, you may be a lover
You can bet your life one destroys the other
I don't know how it all began, which came first
The egg or the hen

The moon comes up and the sun goes down
This old world keeps spinning around
Just as sure as the day turns into the night
What you do in the dark will turn up in the light
Masked man ridin' out across the land
Spreading destruction and moving his hand
He carries a ray-gun, shoots from the hip
Got your past in his pocket, your future's in his grip

You may be a hater, you may be a lover
You bet your life one destroys the other
I don't know how it all began, which came first
The egg or the hen

Now, you bet your life without a doubt
Asking a masked man to leat you out
He's got you so tight that you can't even see
That ray-gun is pointed right at you and me

You won't see it coming
You won't feel the blow
You won't get no warning
You won't never know
You can't start it sooner
And fix it up later
And you ain't going to read about it in the newspaper

Rich or poor, mighty and meek
Don't need no ticket, you've all got a seat
High up on the mountain, low down in the alley
We'll all watch the world turn into death valley

You may be a hater, you may be a lover
You can bet your life one destroys the other
I don't know how it all began, which came first
The egg or the hen

Better shake my hand 'cause time is winding up
Shake your neighbor's hand 'cause time is winding up

You may be a hater, you may be a lover
You can bet your life one destroys the other
I don't know how it all began, which came first
The egg or the hen
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deightonCommented:
birds are descendents of dinosaurs, dinosaurs layed eggs, therefore the first bird was the offspring of a dinosaur and it came out of an egg.

So it was the egg
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BigRatCommented:
If you decide upon sexual reproduction then you'll need two parts to form a whole. These gametes as they are called *could* be identical in size and weight and indeed in some forms of life they are.

But if you just release your gametes into the wild the chances that they meet is low and furthermore for the embryo to develop you'd need a certain size of gametes to make a critical foetus size. Therefore it would be more sensible to have one gamete large and few of them, the other gamete small and plentiful. We now label anything as female which produces a few large gametes, and male which produces millions of small gametes.

Therefore to answer the question, the chicken came first in order to make the gametes. Before then, although it is not the case, the chicken could have reproduced asexually, like a lot of plants and some animals, like the snail.

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borislavmarkovCommented:
Hey I got the idea.

Maybe the chichen is the first because KFC exists for a long time, before the egg and hen.
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lov_hackerAuthor Commented:
now thats we called a gr8 answer  KFC exist before the egg and th hen .................. but if it does then the last atphabet in KFC i.e 'C' is  said to be CHICKEN ........ so how do KFC knows abt the chiken when there was no chiken nor egg and niether hen :-)  
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Aramis11Commented:
Clearly the answer depends on belief.  In Creation, certainly the hen appears first, since an egg so placed would die from cold or be eaten by another creature.  Defining the egg as just on the verge of hatching is not an 'out' since it is then simply a very young hen inside an eggshell.  In evolution, there must be a point of transition between two states, one in which no chickens exist, and one in which at least one, by definition, does.  The mutation that distinguishes the particular species will not make the leap to an egg-laying creature from some other reproductive type in a single generation.  So the individual organism seminal to the new 'chicken' species must appear as an ovum produced by a different one that does not qualify to be defined so.  Put more simply, the first 'hen' must either emerge from a mutated egg of a 'non-hen', or be spontaneously deposited by divine intervention.
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freebuddyCommented:

I am the eggman, they are the eggman, I am the walrus! goo goo joo
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wertykCommented:
it had to be the egg.

for evolution:
whatever eventually evolved into the chicken, it didnt happen instantly, like you see some other bird, and all of a sudden its a chicken. it would have to be done over a generation, so that something that was not a chicken layed a chicken egg. so the egg came first.

for creation:
if you were god and you were going to create the chicken, obviously you would create the egg first and let it grow into a chicken. one or the other had to be created, it seems more likely that the egg was created and not the chicken.
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Joachim CarreinSr. Software DeveloperCommented:
according to some story i heard,

a chicken and an egg are together in bed, the chicken smokes a cigarette and look satisfied. the egg looks up and says:
"Well, there's the answer to that question"


Or so to say, the chicken -came- first
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jitendra_wadhwaniCommented:
What ever you will order(at restaurant) that will come first........
Kidding...

Hen came first.....

Because Chicken will not come out from egg untill and unless hen will sit on it and provide the heat....
While Egg can come out from Hen....

Today you can be able provide that the similar atmosphere so that chicken should come out of egg, but in those days it was not possible...I hope you understand those days..
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muso120999Commented:
This thread is getting over-chickened.
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deightonCommented:
BigRat

>>Therefore to answer the question, the chicken came first in order to make the gametes. Before then, although it is not the case, the chicken could have reproduced asexually, like a lot of plants and some animals, like the snail.

conventional scientific wisdom is that there was something with no feathers or wings laying eggs way before it evolved into a bird.

I didn't think a snail was asexual, I thought it had both male and female sexual organs, so it can both fertilize the eggs of others and have it's own eggs fertilized, a hermaphrodyte.
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muso120999Commented:
> something with no feathers or wings laying eggs

Could they not be regarded as early attempts at prototype chickens? :-P
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BigRatCommented:
deighton: "convention scientitic..."

Yes, to be exact. But sexual reproduction appeared simple asexual reproduction, cell splitting for example, so in the case of the egg, ie: the female gamete, it must have appeared after the parent, which up to that time had reproduced asexually. So in a sense the "chicken" appeared before the "egg". If one could give the name of the creature which had first reproduced sexually, one could say "the <put something in here> appeared before the egg". But one can't so I paraphrased it.

>> snails.

You are correct. I was trying for the life of me to remember which creature reproduced asexually in times of plenty and sexually in times of hardship, and only the snail came to mind.
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neopolitanCommented:
Hens must chicken out hearing rotten egg stories!
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moorhouselondonCommented:
As it is Good Friday (for some people at least), how about pondering:

Which came first, Easter or the Egg?
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wertykCommented:
the egg of course. you cant have easter without easter eggs, its just not right.
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neopolitanCommented:
What kind of a chicken laid the easter egg?
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Cluck knows

I think children these days could become very confused where there is this strong association between Easter Eggs and Easter Bunnies.

As it is Easter Saturday, how about pondering: How did Bunnies get involved with Easter?  Some kind of joint marketing campaign perhaps, with films, videos and books expected soon...
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ozoCommented:
rabbits and eggs are spring fertility symbols
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Overindulging in chocolate spring fertility symbols leads to a big belly and morning sickness
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-easter-bunny
>>The origins of the Easter Bunny aren't clear; the first recorded references to him are generally agreed to have come from Germany in the 1500s. In ancient times the rabbit was a symbol of fertility, equated with springtime and renewal of life, and the hare was also associated with the moon, whose cycles determine the precise date of Easter each year.

>>The idea of an egg-laying rabbit came to the United States in the 18th century. German immigrants in the Pennsylvania Dutch area told their children about the "Osterhase" (also: "Oschter Haws") or Easter Bunny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eostre

http://www.homestead.com/englishheathenism/eostre.html

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pedalheadCommented:
>>Comment from wertyk
>>it had to be the egg.

>>for evolution:
whatever eventually evolved into the chicken, it didnt happen instantly, like you see some other bird, and all of a sudden its a chicken. it would have to be done over a generation, so that something that was not a chicken layed a chicken egg. so the egg came first.

>>for creation:
if you were god and you were going to create the chicken, obviously you would create the egg first and let it grow into a chicken. one or the other had to be created, it seems more likely that the egg was created and not the chicken.

i believe it is the chicken

for evolution:
if I make the assumption that the egg is a 'chicken' egg, it is not possible for a non-chicken to lay a chicken egg. A chicken egg is so named because it is laid by a chicken, not because it contains a chicken. While the first chicken may have come from an egg, it was not a 'chicken' egg.

for creation:
Adam and Eve were fully formed humans and did not develop from fertilized eggs. I think it is safe to assume that the first chicken also lacked a bellybutton, so to speak.
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harfangCommented:
pedalhead, this is a totally different and completely unrelated question. You should create your own thread:

    Which came first, the belly or the button?

;)
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moorhouselondonCommented:
The keyboard and mouse must have preceded the button.  Using similar logic, the keyboard and mouse preceded the Menu.  Otherwise "What is the Meaning of Buttons and Menus?"

Both Chickens and Eggs appear on Menus so, without them, Microsoft Windows wouldn't exist.
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HuntyCommented:
I'm starting to like you MHL...you crack me up!
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moorhouselondonCommented:
OMG You've set the Pun Warning alarm off, everyone Duck.  Oh no, the system is about to go into Cold Turkey mode.  Lov_hacker Lov_Hacker are you receiving?  Cluck, Cluck assign points before Batman has a chance to put his Capon.....
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HuntyCommented:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!  You're killing me!  :-D
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neopolitanCommented:
>>Are we seeing a love affair here, in the name of chicken and eggs?!
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SteveG00000Commented:
Well, personally I think the Cock came first, or the Egg from the Hen would not of been fertilised therefore nothing would of hatched from the egg to start with <`.’ >

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wertykCommented:
well the cock isnt in the question, now is it, steve. slap yourself.

thats like saying:

"what color should i use, i have blue and red"

"green"
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HuntyCommented:
>>Are we seeing a love affair here, in the name of chicken and eggs?!

Are you trying to get me into trouble here?  My muso is all I need for love.  But you can never have enough friends.  :-)
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wertykCommented:
friends.....with benefits?
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HuntyCommented:
8-O
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JorgeCorreaCommented:
It was the egg first: the evolution say that... it was first the eggs of all the prehistoryc animals (dynasours...)... then a lot of years later came the chicken
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tordanaCommented:
Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked them both into existence simultaneously.
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Jim CakalicSenior Developer/ArchitectCommented:
LOL! +1 for that.
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techn125Commented:
The chicken came 1st.
Then, it layed an egg.
Then trying to go and do its duty of caring and heating on this egg;
The chicken crossed the road.

We all know what happened there. Poor chicken.

So, the egg is there, left alone, orphaned.

Leading to today's confusion.
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tonsofpcsCommented:
The egg came first.  Not the egg of a fowl, but still an egg.
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naoyCommented:
The solution is simple - the egg came first.

Given that organisms evolve by a process of genetic mutation, the genetic material that caused the pre-chicken-organism (we will call it Chickinus Prehistoricus) to evolve into a chicken (Chickenus Maximus Decimus) as we know it today must have been present at the embryotic stage - ie., the genetic mutation occured in the egg.

The reason why the chicken could not have come before the egg is therefore obvious - mutations in the genetic material of the egg are necessary in order to hatch a 'chick', or chicken.

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harfangCommented:
Hah, yet another genetic "solution"...

If you count the "mutation" as the starting time, you must surely realize that it happened before the egg was formed. Mutations happen during the meiosis, or the process of gamete creation. Either the 1n female gamete or the 1n male gamete was already a "Maximus Decimus" gamete. And the fecondation — resulting in the first "Maximus" zygote — also took place before the egg white was added to the yolk and the shell formed. Finally, it can reasonably be argued that the egg being formed by the "Prehistoricus" hen, it was in fact just another "Prehistoricus" egg.

There are convincing arguments for the egg, but the genetic argument is not one of them ;)

Anyway, this entire question is just a pleasant paradox to obfuscate the really scary question of creation. In the end, the jokes always win!

Cheers!
(°v°)
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naoyCommented:
EGGSCUSE ME??

The Question was:

"does the hen come first or the egg :) any one knowss  this one ???"

The Answer is:

The egg came first!!! How the egg got there is not part of the question, but without the egg there would be no chicken/hen!

EGGS RULE!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!

Seriously folks, the egg - first.

Now I can sleep.
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freebuddyCommented:

Are we still talking about this? :)
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naoyCommented:
That is because I solved the riddle!

MWAHAHAHAH!!!
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freebuddyCommented:

hahaha nice one, riddle? this is an old cliche
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jitendra_wadhwaniCommented:
What ever you will order(at restaurant) that will come first........
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jitendra_wadhwaniCommented:
What ever you had ordered(at restaurant) that came first........
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JR2003Commented:
This one is really too easy.
The egg came first. If not what did the chicken pop out of?
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moorhouselondonCommented:
I thought that chickens came out of square plastic containers with KFC marked on them

Sorry, I think we've exhausted all possible combinations of chicken/egg jokes.  What are we going to talk about now......
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moorhouselondonCommented:
...I know... Which came first?...  the Computer or the Headless Chicken?
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harfangCommented:
Aaarrgh! This thread is being taken over by blasphemous eggists.
Chickenites of the World, Unite! Let us spread the true faith at every cross-road!
(°v°)
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wertykCommented:
i know asian_niceguy said it already, but it deserves another mention

So the chicken and the egg were in bed. The egg rolls off the chicken and says to the chicken -

"Now we know the answer to THAT question!"
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Galisteo8Commented:
Then they both light cigarettes and fall asleep.  Which came first: the chicken flambe or the fried egg?
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wertykCommented:
the fried egg. cause the egg doesnt have hands and cant hold the cigarette, so it slips
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SunBowCommented:
Q> Title: Egg come first or Hen
A1> OK

Q > Title: Egg come first or Hen
A > Yes
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jitendra_wadhwaniCommented:
Author seems to be sleeping from last one month.....

Last comment
Apr 12
Today May 12...

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SunBowCommented:
Asker Last EE Comment: 04/19/2006 http://www.experts-exchange.com/M_3646455.html
I guess my comment means I been pretty asleep here too
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SunBowCommented:
Supplemental, and identifying some favorites from above:

Galisteo8 > We should teach the hen-from-rooster-rib theory alongside that of the woman-from-man-rib theory in our schools.  You know -- ensure that the "other" side gets heard.

:-)

andycrofts > At some point something that was not a hen laid an egg from which something that was a chicken/hen hatched.

(3) More than likely meThinks, whether some contract mod to accomodate the cosmic ray hitting a developing egg or the mother suffering the flu and having a malfunction or eating something tainted by pollution, being downstream of some mammals. Although I am (opinionated) tainted by stories of ugly ducklings.

muso > Naturally the egg does.  Alphabetically.

:-))

(4) The egg comes first, for breakfast. Later on comes the time for the chicken salad, then the drumsticks and BBQ wings, then the breast ... then the holiday when the outdoor grill gets fired up and all comes back together when the eggs are devilled.

Although, just what happens when instead one uses a deep fryer for the eggs, or a microwave oven, has yet to be determined, AFAIK, concerning the posting of the photographic 'proofs' of results.

muso > "Chicken" isn't in the question:

:-))

harfang > the really important question here: Why did the egg cross the road?

:-))
Beat me to that 'answer' [late again]

moorhouselondon > old yolks are the best

:-))

neopolitan > The answer depends on your perception and belief.

:-))          -and use of definitions

freebuddy > So, the egg came first, then the chicken came and reproduced

There's also the happenings for after the egg was laid, the chicklet was quite vulnerable in forming up the cells before breaking out as a fully developed chick, being neither egg nor chicken nor chick.

Q > Title: Egg come first or Hen
A > No
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SunBowCommented:
muso > The question states "the egg".  Nothing of the properties of being "of a chicken" are given, nor implied.

Don't snakes lay eggs? Don't snakes like to invite hens to dinner once they've developed?

http://www.thematzats.com/snakes/life1.htm
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Turkey Fryers

http://www.ul.com/consumers/turkeys.html

FREE House Fryer comes with each Turkey Fryer!!  FREE fuel - simply cook your food on a wooden verandah!!

Look at that link: Are the Underwriters Labs insinuating that Consumers are Turkeys??
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SunBowCommented:
Turkeys have bigger eggs. Didn't know you had to torch the veranda to prepare htem. No wonder chicken eggs are more popular, even if they are smaller.        ;)
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drdewmCommented:
Take as an example you child is what is commonly accepted as a chicken. You are not a chicken and neither is your spouse. It's the combination of you and you spouse that made the chicken therfore the egg came first.
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SunBowCommented:
that goes with the definition of what  a chicken is, it is what comes from the egg.
Although the topic used the word 'hen' instead of chicken, it doesn't seem to be overtly a trick question like that
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moorhouselondonCommented:
I will repeat something I said earlier:-

The egg is an extension of the womb, a "packed lunch" for the developing embryo.  There must have been some evolutionary advantage for the chicken to lay an egg rather than carry the embryo around for the whole gestation period which outweighed the disadvantage of the egg being eaten by a predator.

Look back at the chicken's evolution.  It is likely that at some point in their history chickens might have been able to fly (domestication - fattening up - by humans was probably the factor that more or less grounded them).  

Question: Are there any animals that you can think of that can fly, but do not lay eggs?  

Predecessors of chickens ("pre-chicken") might well not have laid eggs, they may have had a womb to protect the infant until fully developed, at which point the "pre-chicken" would have given birth.  If this animal were able to fly, such an animal would nevertheless have probably been grounded during pregnancy - a big disadvantage.  
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harfangCommented:
Smart bats. Didn't want to be part of *that* question...
(°v°)
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Good thinking.

Thing about bats is arguably that they do not have a natural predator other than perhaps bigger bats.  Apparently the females of at least one species of bat that is preyed on by bigger bats migrates in order to rear their young in a non-dangerous environment.
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MNH1966Commented:
The answer's pretty simple...
Some fish. bird, reptile or whatever, layed an egg and completely freaked when a mutated version of herself popped out (being a hen).
So I'd say the egg came first :)
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harfangCommented:
,Ø°` —› ø —› ,Ø°` –› ø —› ,Ø°` –› ø –› ,O°` –› o —› ,O°` –› o —› ,O°` —› o

,Ø°` –› ø —› ,Ø°` —› ø –› ,Ø°` —› o –› ,O°` —› o —› ,O°` –› o —› ,O°` –› o

???
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Aramis11Commented:
>>  Thing about bats is arguably that they do not have a natural predator other than perhaps bigger bats.  Apparently the females of at least one species of bat that is preyed on by bigger bats migrates in order to rear their young in a non-dangerous environment.

--And certain squirrels?  They have some predators, and at least some tree-climbing snakes would have been able to eat squirrel eggs.

>>There must have been some evolutionary advantage for the chicken to lay an egg rather than carry the embryo around for the whole gestation period which outweighed the disadvantage of the egg being eaten by a predator.

At one time chickens started to lay eggs around hot springs, to shed weight for flying advantage.  The hot springs not only incubated the eggs without their being sat on, but also drove away predators with sulphur fumes.
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David_FongCommented:
I think you've got it backwards Moorhouse, egg layers were around a long time before mammals and it's the placenta that gives mammals an advantage of being able to carry their young with them to save them from predators.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
David_Fong:

I see your point, that birds merely emulated their ancestors in laying eggs, whereas mammals evolved from there.
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Galisteo8Commented:
Going back to the original question.... are we talking about the concept of "egg" -- that is, an animal reproductive body consisting of an ovum together with its nutritive and protective envelopes and having the capacity to develop into a new individual capable of independent existence -- or, specifically, a chicken egg -- that is, a reproductive body as described above but having been laid by, or having given nourishment to, an actual chicken?
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harfangCommented:
Galisteo8: ".... are we talking about [X] or, specificall [Y] or [Z]?"
Well, yes! ... and "z" is most popular...
(°v°)
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Jason210Commented:
May be we should go back to the origins of life on this planet and think about how may have reproduction begun. It seems to me that a lifeform must have evloved before the ability to reproduce evolved.
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harfangCommented:
The ability to reproduce is the very definition of life. Not to feed (viruses do not feed), not to die (amoeba do not die if not killed), but to reproduce. Perhaps you meant "sexual reproduction"?
(°v°)
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Jason210Commented:
Harfang >The ability to reproduce is the very definition of life.
That's a good definition, but an arbritray one at best. The question "What is life" is a long debate and could be the subject of another thread. But if the definition holds true, then let's replace the word "lifeform" above with the word structure. There must be an original structure to replicate from. Even it's just a glob of molecules, a simple structure must first exist, before it can replicate. That initial replication may just be a chance thing, but a structure that could replicate would soon outnumber other structures in the primaevil soup.

>not to die (amoeba do not die if not killed)
Huh? How can something be killed and not die?

>Perhaps you meant "sexual reproduction"?
No - rather I meant "the ability to replicate".

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harfangCommented:
The veil is lifted. That is the really scary question {http:#16614891} hidden behind by the "chicken or egg question"... ;)
And that, as you said, would be another thread...
(°v°)
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
I found this, I didn't read it all but the answer could be in there somewhere. It's a long term study of birds and eggs so it might go back far enough (not green eggs and ham!)

http://www.boc-online.org/PDF/124GreenEggAndSkin.pdf

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JR2003Commented:
It's now been ruled by some eggs-perts:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/5019682.stm
The egg came first
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☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
So, just to recap then, http:Q_21807482.html#16412983 ...

M :o)
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_Gez_Commented:
Based on evolution, each new egg may produce some furhter development due to inbreeding, cross breeding or global conditions.  Therefore the EGG comes first as it develops into the next generation or hybrid of a species...which then breed (cross breeds) producing another egg with possibly different mutated genes.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
We have discussed this topic at some length.  The next question is:-

Which Disappeared first, the Question or the Person Asking it?
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ksbhatCommented:
Egg come first and then the hen...look at any dictionary
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Jason210Commented:
Hen.

As I said, earlier, there must be an original structure to replicate from. Even it's just a glob of molecules, a simple structure must first exist, before it can replicate. That initial replication may just be a chance thing, but a structure that could replicate would soon outnumber other structures in the primaevil soup.
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neopolitanCommented:
We have seen many egg-sotic and egg-centric comments from egg-ceptional egg-sperts.

An egg-strodinary and egg-cellent egg-hibition which egg-spounds egg-sactly on the virtues of hens (and cocks too)
– and provides an egg-cyclopedia of egg-samples. It was egg-citing but do we need to egg-spand it further? Is it not time to egg-sit without egg-cuses?
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
I'll have a bottle of... oh that one please. And I did, and I drank it all, and it was quite pleasant...

Oh yeh, my great idea. Spawned by reading the eggy comment above (thanks neo), well *cough-cough* my idea is that *cough* if someone posts in here at least once in 21 days it should keep clear of the auto-closure thingy and this annoying notif will pop up about once every 3 weeks..

I had an egg on my pizza and there wasn't even a chicken on the menu so I think that say's something - hey my brain is boooogled!
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
actually, what scientists neglect to tell you is that one of the products of the big bang were eggs.  now, this was a long time ago, so they didn't quite look like the kind of eggs we're used to, but sort of a mix between those a pokeman balls that my brother doesn't pick up and that I step on.

and from those came all sorts of various lifeforms.  now these lifeforms could not produce the same levels of energy that the big bang did, in fact some of these lifeforms weren't capable of any sort of bang when mating, no matter how hard they tried.  and so, the energy produced with thier "bangs" led to new life, the kind we see today.  some species laid eggs, because while the bang was strong enough to get that done, well, it was a quick one, and whats done quick isnt always done well, so these animals would often lay many many eggs in the hopes that a few would survive

some animals took a different pattern and spent their time banging and put that energy into only one new lifeform at a time.  in fact, while the lifeform was growing, they would off bang again and again, putting all of their efforts into that one offspring.

of course, i've forgotten about the species that "can't bang at all" these species do have to continue on in life, but, the intense levels of energy needed to produce offspring can't be created by anything but banging so they sacrifice part of themselves for their offspring.  these are not dumb creatures or noble creatures--they sacrifice regenerating parts of themselves, and those parts become the few, the lonely, the asexual.

and that, my friends is the story of the chicken and the egg, and all life on this planet.

if you want to know how years later these chickens ended up walking accross all sorts of roads, you'll have to offer more points
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dkloeckCommented:
a hen must have been born, and they of course are born in eggs, so, someday (long long ago) another animal must have layed an egg which had a "mutant"  in it.. this mutant was a hen! q.e.d. =D
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wertykCommented:
>> a hen must have been born, and they of course are born in eggs, so, someday (long long ago) another animal must have layed an egg which had a "mutant"  in it.. this mutant was a hen! q.e.d. =D

no, not q.e.d.

for this to be true, evolution must be true. prove that first, then you can q.e.d. this.
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dkloeckCommented:
http://www.nwcreation.net/geneticrecombination.html

That's the actual knowledge about evolution, I of course have to take it as an axiom for my proofs. I can not proof mathematicly how evolution works...

and as you see genetic recombiantion and mutations happens when a new "child" is born (I'm not sure if it could happen if you fall into radioactive liquid or an alien spider bites you..I'm just a computer scientist), so the first hen must have been born as hen due to the genetic recombination or a mutation, and since hens usually get born from eggs.. the egg was first. I try again: "Q.E.D!!" =D
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Jason210Commented:
The egg is not complete, a chicken is.


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dkloeckCommented:
what do you mean by complete? an egg is a complet egg. I really dont get it
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Aramis11Commented:
Got that much right.
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Jason210Commented:
How can something replicate if it doesn't first exist. Original comes first, replication second.

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dkloeckCommented:
But through mutation and genetic recombiantion new animals apear (evolution you know ;) )

The hen, as you probably know was not the first animal on earth so other animals evolved to the hen.
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Jason210Commented:
If you define life by the ability to reproduce....
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dkloeckCommented:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life

We are not able to define life yet, but we are able to define some properties, the ability to reproduce is of course one of them.
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IsisagateCommented:
oh rly? no wai!
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GeisrudCommented:
No comment from author since 4-11...

Surely a record length forum though.
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wertykCommented:
>> Surely a record length forum though.

you have no idea. check this one out:
http:Q_20392238.html
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way12goCommented:
With all the different kinds of possibilities of machines called Life, any of the many things are true possibilities and, might not be called as history but they are the true possibilities of existence and all are relative truths.

The absolute truth is, everything in the world is moving and, the relative truth is, we do consider ourselves or something else as stationary comparing with something else. But, it's not true.

The truth is, ... let me put it into couple of statements that are reflections of the other truths...

Everything is moving/Nothing is stationary...

Nothing, is impossible/"Zero" is impossible...

If you consider putting aside many possibilities... we do have atleast two of the possibilities...

1. The other Life's intervention,... using the possibilities...

2. Evolution, perhaps the easy way to suggest an answer, without actually knowing the truth....

Many glitches, always possible... with Life...

If you take implantation as a key word the egg could be the first thing called Lfe and if you take Evolution as the key word the Hen or something closer is the possible first thing. You need to beleive ... these are nothing more than true possibilities...
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IsisagateCommented:
I guess it all depends on if God gets up in time for breakfest or goes straight to lunch
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GeisrudCommented:
Wertyk - at least the author of your link is still posting.
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MysidiaCommented:
The first hen couldn't have been born from an egg laid by a hen, because there were no hens, and thus
no hen eggs... the first hen must have come before the first hen egg.

The first hen may have been born from an egg laid by another species of animal, or the first hen may have
materialized or come into existence by bioengineering or genetic manipulation -- I wasn't there, I don't know
for sure.

If you backtrack sufficiently through other similar species an egg of which might of given rise to the first of another species, you may eventually find a species that reproduces in a way that does not require an egg, so the egg
was not like the first thing to exist.
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AdvanceWithITCommented:
A caveman made the worlds first egg out of clay, and he was as confused as anyone else when a chicken hatched from it.
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☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
So, just to recap then, http:Q_21807482.html#16412983 ...

M :o)
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Masqueraid is dropping Very Strong Hints about some points which are about due.  
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☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
Eggsactly :o)
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
*glares*

*cough http://www.experts-exchange.com/Miscellaneous/Puzzles_Riddles/Q_21807482.html#16989889 cough*

I may be dropping hints later, but the big bang way predates dinasours...
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Taking the question quite literally, I think that Masqueraid was the first to answer the question.  Was there such a thing as an egg first?  No matter if it was from a dinosaur or a fish is not relevant (so long as we agree that fish and dinos existed before chickens did), the fact is that the Egg is something that existed on this planet way before any chicken walked the earth (and started organised big bangs, they talk about nothing else, if you've ever listened to chickens talking).  

(Whether the asker chooses to dish out points to those who add substance to the answer is up to the asker - or to the lucky Clean Up Volunteer who has to unravel this lot 21 days after the last post, which may never happen, the rate we are posting...).
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
there were a LOT of good answers, though i do like mine.  normally i cant think of anything good.

I should at least get points i think for included sexual and asexual reproduction.  did anyone else do that?  course, i might lose points for the chicken crossing the road corniness too

--------

<or to the lucky Clean Up Volunteer who has to unravel this lot 21 days after the last post,>

I was wondering about that.  what the hell do they do?

i wonder what would happen if this (http://www.experts-exchange.com/Miscellaneous/Lounge/Q_20392238.html) ever went to clean-up...
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moorhouselondonCommented:
>what the hell do they do?

They either do it like this:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1140000/images/_1142681_reform300.jpg

or there are probably some cynics who think it's done like this

http://ings.rucus.net/albums/engagegm/17_Jody_playing_darts.jpg

(pity the poor cat if anyone misses)

>i wonder what would happen if...
Well, they would need to give it to someone young.  Any older person wouldn't be able to see the job through.
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AdvanceWithITCommented:
Maybe nothing came first, and the chicken/egg conundrum is just a construct of our collective psyche.  Remember, there is no spoon...
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
i'm scared that you had those pictures on hand.

<Well, they would need to give it to someone young.  Any older person wouldn't be able to see the job through.>

and they would need to either find a way to divy up one point, or to figure out the one worthiest comment
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Admin4XPCommented:
Man there are a lot of posts so im probably repeating somone here when i say:

If you look at the way evolution works than the only answer for this question is that the Egg came 1st. A chicken must of evolved from somthing we would not call a chicken by todays standards, but that thing that would not be classed as a chicken would have laid the 1st egg that would give birth to the 1st thing would would class as a chicken. So it must be that the egg came 1st.

P.S. Chickens RULE!
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
<If you look at the way evolution works than the only answer for this question is that the Egg came 1st.>

Really?  Why?  Were/Are you there?  (if you go to kansas you can apparantly still get in on the action)

Actually, if you look at the way that evolution works, the only thing you know, is that something came before both the chicken and the egg, that the animal we know as the chicken evolved into.  Now, you probably have to go quite a few steps back before the chicken, because those steps near the chicken were most likely egg containing, as the chicken as we know it probably evolved from something in its family, or something that, if it were alive today would be in its family.  So, for the chicken and the egg argument, if you want to have an evolutionary one, you have to have a chicken-like and egg argument. Maybe, the chicken (chicken-like) evolved from something that didn't lay eggs at all.  There are other forms of reproduction.  In fact, maybe that was what its big evolutionary devolpement was.

One day, some things that look sorta like chickens are walking around and mating.  These chickens give birth to their children live.  Its a bit of a drawback, because like todays chickens, they still walk around after their heads been chopped off, so that tells you how much their brains play a part in their daily lives.  Survival of baby chicken-like things?  Very small.  One of these chicken like things goes into water that is yellow.  I know, stupid chicken-like thing!  It's DNA mutates.  And, after another frenzied round of mating, it gives birth, TO AN EGG.  The chicken like thing is very confused, and starts poking at it with it's beak, and the first egg, never becomes a chicken.  See what I mean about survival rate?  That's alright though, because in it's lifetime the chicken like thing that mutates "gives birth" to dozens of eggs.  Now, only 4 survive, but normal chicken-like-things back then got knocked up about 4 times total, and if they were lucky had one live and grow to adulthood.  Far too many killed themselves during pregnancy walking into trees and the like.

Now, the children of the mutated-chicken-like-thing reproduced much more quickly and soon, they were all that remained, the other chicken-like-things having died out.  Not due to greater idiocy, but lesser ability to replace lives lost by idiocy.  Now, these descendents of the original mutated-chicken-like-thing continued, and generations on other mutations occured, and the land of the chicken-like-things changed as new animals were better able to live and adapt, though curiously no smarter.

And, it all led to today, where we can't wait for our chickens to mutate themselves, it takes too damn long!!!  So we feed them hormones and we lock them up to keep them from running into trees and killing themselves, and we take their eggs away to keep them from pecking the eggs to death.  Really, humans are the best things to happen to chickens since that chicken-like-thing walked into that yellow water.

But still, none of this changes the fact that according to the evolutionary rules that you prize so highly, chickens undeniably came first.

That's why the shell is so thin you know?  It's that unhealthy yellow water coursing through their viens.

And, I'm still not telling how they started crossing roads until someone offers more points.
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
HOW COULD WE HAVE DONE THIS???

we forgot to answer the question.  which comes first, the chicken or the egg, in kansas?

the answer is simple.  now, first, read the two stories I've provided you.  that provides the answer for the evolutionists.  but what about the creationists?  and are we really going to teach our children two different curriculums?  the answer to the latter is of course not.  because the story of the chicken and the egg is one thing evolutionists and creationists can agree on.    but where is god in the story of the chicken in the egg?  in your kitchen.  go to the kitchen.  take out a frying pan and crack an egg.  there you will see the face of god.  god is in every egg.  so while the bible may be a little shaky on the details, never doubt, young devout ones.  never doubt
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MereteCommented:
lol you guys crack me, ahahahah
This hen and this egg meet in a barn and have mad crazy sex all afternoon, eventually they lay back and the chook lights a cigerette and blows out the smoke, with a sigh she says well that solves that question I came first. :D
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way12goCommented:
The question is a contradictary question, like almost all other questions and, the answer is also one of the contradictary answers like many other answers. It's all doubtful because of wrong life was given birth and, then you never are sure of any knowledge, what so ever!? I must add, just kidding, just kidding, and, just kidding,... It's intervention of life? What life is it?
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way12goCommented:
Unfortunately, today, I find myself using the internet explorer and unfortunately, I found myself using firefox over internet for the past couple of weeks and, I probably got stuck before the PC " Under the control of Alien Life forms... " and, blew the internet bill. It's an Alien bill with a small and yet a different meaning and yet we, a collection of small things fail to exist...
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
<Unfortunately, today, I find myself using the internet explorer and unfortunately, I found myself using firefox over internet for the past couple of weeks and, I probably got stuck before the PC " Under the control of Alien Life forms... " and, blew the internet bill. It's an Alien bill with a small and yet a different meaning and yet we, a collection of small things fail to exist...>

what the fuck?

ok, I think the point should go the person who mentioned sex the most times in their post, because really, life comes from sex, not chicken or eggs, even if you are infertile.  it can an obvious mention, like orgasms over cigarettes, or a subtle one, like my poor little organisms who couldn't bang at all

look at your post, or posts, and count em up.

my first post has at least nine. i just reread it, its awful, every other word refers to sex.  then i have two in my chicken first story, and somehow, the creationists got no sex.

frenzied round of mating counts as a sex reference right?

so there you have it people, stop contemplating, "if i went into this door" and start counting the bangs!
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MereteCommented:
agree they came from sex and then hen came first ahaha no one even laughed..
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way12goCommented:
No, deaf and dumb. It's the truth and, nothing but the truth. It's defenitely not a SiFi movie story. If you can't digest, you don't.
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
well, it's not funny, but at least it's GOOD sex.

though i'm a bit confused on the sex of the egg and everything.  is it a lesbianic relationship or a male egg or is the egg genderless at that point?
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GrandSchtroumpfCommented:
The egg McMuffin (1973) came before the chicken McNugget (1983)

source:  http://www.mcspotlight.org/company/company_history.html
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way12goCommented:
There are multiple possibilities with life and, one of them has to be taken care with several possibilities/variations and, it's the fact that the hen could be first and the egg could be first too but, first to what? Evolution and, intervention of other life or circumstances ( Circumstances? ( = ? ) Evolution? ( =? ) Intervention ( =? ) Transplantaion..... and, others.. ( =? )....

None of the above absolute facts are to be discarded and, the zillions of lifeforms on this planet called Earth alone prove it!?
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gkishorejiCommented:
It doesnt matter which comes first egg or hen.... i will eat them both
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HuntyCommented:
>>It doesnt matter which comes first egg or hen.... i will eat them both

Here, here!  Ever had a chicken and cheese omlet?  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
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way12goCommented:
LIFE?!?!...
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
@way12go

first, stop making statements and ending them with question marks, it's annoying.

second, stop making this philosophical , and theoretical and deep, because really, we're only slightly better than the chicken corssing the road people and on the theory of life ladder, they're not even on the bottom rung.  they're deep in a hole below the ladder.

speaking of which, anyone up for a game of shoots and ladders?
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way12goCommented:
The dictionary is filled. What for? There are many words and, to spare many let's stick to any two...

1. Difference.

2. Similar.

You're alive and the difference is vivid!
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way12goCommented:
I forgot or, should I say I just remembered or, should I say it just occured to me... And, what is it?

Well let's take, the two...

1. Big.

2. Small.

The World ( World = Everything ) is filled with the small?! Do you have any knowledge or conciousness of what it means?

If any problems with my English, pardon me, all, nothing but collection(s) of small things! The question has nothing to beg to differ?

Oh! Is that it?


----------------------THE END!-----


I've this final ( for now! ) for you ( all! ) statement.

Beleive/Trust me, I just forgot and, I seemed to have recollected it.

Oh! No. I truely forgot but, I understood that I already delivered lifes lessons and, it's Life that can see with its minds eye or may be never. Minds eye?!
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g127404Commented:
I have a headache now from reading the last few statements...

What was this thread initially about?  Wow, 4 months long... are there any other topics that have gone on like this?
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
the longest thread that I know of is this...

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Miscellaneous/Lounge/Q_20392238.html

and it started in 2002, so go join the fun!!!  w00t!

yah, i didn't get the last comments either, but I've figured that the more you respond to way12go, the more bizzare nonsense is posted, so just let it die, please.  i'm hoping that this is eventually closed.  most of the comments here are way fun though (read mine, sexy chicken, sexy eggs!)
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way12goCommented:
I typed a verygood message and, completely informative and, you would have your problems solved, all of them. But when I hit the space button after selecting the submit button using tab I got this page

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1140000/images/_1142681_reform300.jpg


and, lost the data and, I got to go. And, you ... nevermind.
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
EVERY VOTE COUNTS!
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Flare_PhoenixCommented:
As a believer of god, i believe he created the chicken.

Also an egg would not survive in the environment unprotected.
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GeisrudCommented:
The eggs are clearly filled with dark matter, and thus, are the binding force of the entire universe.
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/aug/HQ_M06128_dark_matter.html
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antovCommented:
top points to the first comments on the page. It would first of all be near-impossible (excluding the possibility of a God) for something to be created without its starting point (or life source). This would then mean that the egg was created before the Hen. Although I do like dictionary answer for this.  
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avinash016Commented:
thats it hen first
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
<This would then mean that the egg was created before the Hen. Although I do like dictionary answer for this.  >

Did you even read what I said?  without mentioning god even once, I explained how chickens could come from eggs and vice versa.  good old evolution and darwanism was all I needed.  you disgust me.
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way12goCommented:
Files are inside the PC. And, no lifeform knows it, without prior data feed?! It can't be true or is it, It might not be true? I am not good at punctution because I didn't learn it in the first place. There are so many errors ( about any forum... ) and, there is so much left untyped.
We must agree with the fact that what we know/think/anything similar is negligible when compared to what we shouldn't and, couldn't and, we wouldn't k.../t.../a...
A letter here and there and, a word and or a statement here and there and, it's all over?
The word same applies to laws, more often. And, the word different applies to the whole world in the biggest sence since the world is " never the same variation " always a different set of variation(s). It's always different with similarities because of limited ( something like that... ) possibilities of main causes?! I hope you understand. There is more to it. Much more. Got to go. Read and understand or else it's futile?!
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way12goCommented:
EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONTROL OF THE SCUM LIFEFORMS THAT EXIST, HERE AND NOW. NEVER MIND! NO BRAIN, PERFECT.

If you read the above group of words then don't make them bad. You will? I read a statement from a newspaper and it goes something like this... " ... what  a comple ...xxx web we weave when we experts s... exchange practice to decieve .... " / modified ...  I already typed " ... it goes something like this " If my posts don't exist, they simply don't exist to the organ of optical illusion. Isn't it true that optical issusion is part of all lifeforms and the very proof of stupidity in life itself. Oh! Sometimes, it gets meaningless but take one and leave many!?

Just your data.
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way12goCommented:
The truth is.. and, nothing but the undeniable truth is " The Plague lifeform(s) have their control and, it can create any machine it has control over!? Can't be true to the last word of the statement(s). But, you can read and, understand what it means and possibly what it could mean. Never mind, all the data that's not disclosed. Most of the times it just can't get disclosed. It controls all! What's in a brain? It's garbage.

You look for the wrong thing in all the wrong places. The Present's and, the Future's ( Future? ) meaning for brain is something like it's a garbage body under the control of Nobody. Nobody? Who is Nobody? Nobody populated the World with it's disgusting xxx.
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way12goCommented:
Memory, erased. S.....s.
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way12goCommented:
Memory, erased. S.....s.

Memory, erased. S.....s.


Memory, erased. S.....s.



Memory, erased. S.....s.






Memory, erased. S.....s.











...
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way12goCommented:
The whole lifeform(s) are p.r.e.p.l.a.n.e.d and your body can't get the instruction?
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way12goCommented:
The two statements are different?

You have no idea, who I am.

You, have no idea who I am.

More to fallow? Negligible.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Hmmm?

(taps side of question lightly with finger, puts ear to it, then shakes gently from side to side)

I think I'm going to have to press the On switch in for about 5 seconds to Shut Down...
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
what is with the really random and nonsensical spamming on this thread?

i mean, some threads really really lend themselves to it, but most of the stuff on here was just really absurdly funny and creative.  so can we please quit all of the random nonsensical spamming?  look, this is a great question to approach as a joke or philosophically or a bunch of different ways.  but a lot of the recent stuff hasn't been any of that, it's been scarily similar to that nonsense spam i get that has words strung together that almost make sentences and paragraphs but don't.

also, it keeps this thread open longer without any real discussion every time this happens and its annoying.
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way12goCommented:
All of must agree that the knowledge/memory of a Language such as English and the ability to mixup and, use such things makes us a common grooming talking ( actually errror prone ) things. It's true for several good and, perfect reasons. These are certain reflections of the machines we are. Change is here but the source code is never too far away. The rock can't fly or swim like a particular machines called fishes and or birds do. By the way if you know your memory might suggest the few exceptions of swimming birds ( birds swimming ) and ( fishes flyinf ) flying fishes.

 The egg has history so it can't be first on its own. If you consider any egg, every egg is different. The hen too has history and, the same goes with the hen. The begining of all life is different from the successors. Any life is unique like the infinite numbers. The numbers are infinite and so are the variations of the World we are part of. If my memory and, the other supporting factors help, I might add something more interesting and completely/partly ( different ) meaningful. What difference does it make? The topic is here as a question and the answer(s) are full of different threads which are definitely different even if you take a single individual into account and, that might not be the case of all. Anyway, any egg can't be taken into consideration and, it's the same with any hen. The begining of all things, wether it's Life or not, is made of small things. All the different things in this World are part of the ( Everything is the superset of all the somethings and the imaginary nothing too )World. Small things are named as they are different but, they're different in a sence that they're all collection of small things. There is energy, there are other such variations with their own dimensions/lengths/measurements such as volume and, mass and,...
Ok, I understand that, as I go on typing I might not get the connection of the different statements in a better way. Anyway the answer for the first thing is ... the first things are small and if you make arrangements/divisions to modify the data into multiple groups/classifications the answer is likely to be different. As a whole it's not the egg or the hen. It's some eggs and, some hens and they're different variations. We do know if the egg were to be the evolutionary variation of the Hen you're typing about then, it's the Hen ( Closely related to the new/modified Hen(s) ) that comes as the forerunner of its kind and, it naturally includes egg(s). Well uff... So, let it be so. It's the truth. Variations in all Life are unique but the similarities are not wandering outside of the Laws that simply rule. All laws in our World have two reflections and, they are
1. Absolute nature.
2. Relative nature.
These laws coexist. All inteligence is nothing but Relative. The language we use is not Absolute, it's the subset of limitless possibilities/variations of Relative nature of existence. Pardon me with all the sentence formations. After all this, I could be wrong at some point, with my English.
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way12goCommented:
All of us...
I didn't notice the other errors but, you may please cope with them. Got to go. I just took a glance. I use a painful network!
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neopolitanCommented:
lov hacker
If u r still around,
way12go merits all the points for sheer volume of egg-hen discussion :)
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
actually, I was about to compliment way12go for probably the first coherent comment made on this thread

and, i don't give the points on this thread, i'm not the author.

for the record, way12go has made 17 comments on this thread

this will be my 14th comment.

however, comment volume also has nothing to do with who gets designated points, it has to do with comment quality, so while I've provided multiple chicken egg stories, the author may decide that they like one more than mine.  that person only needs to have commented once.

but, way12go, i don't even know what typo/error you were referring to.  I made lots of typos on this thread, i'm sure.  either spell check before hand, or just let the errors be unless they are so bad that someone won't know what you mean.  remember, we get e-mails for every comment, and while i want the emails that have something actually in them, i don't need to know that you made a mistake in your comment.  if you have something to contribute, do, but other than that, don't bother
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TalmashCommented:
who was born at first, you or your parents ?

the world is a creation, and the creator (lets not speak of theology or religion), intented/created bodies with the power to create thier next generation.

now back to my 1st question, asume the chens are asking the same question :
man come first or ...

so, which "chen" sat on that egg, if it somehow appeared !?

tal
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☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
>>it somehow appeared

Sadly this is no longer about things appearing, more about disappearing.  
It appears that  lov_hacker has "left" the site.
Let us now look forward to the appearance of the Clean-Up Volunteer.
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
which came first, the clean-up volunteer or the broken egg?
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
this is one of lov_hacker's three open questions, but the other two have been long abandoned.  (and now submitted to clean-up by me)

we're the only fools who are still commenting.  so lets have a moment of silence.  a three week moment of silence.

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UnexplainedWaysCommented:
The egg came first, however it was probally not a hen that layed it but more of a freakish twist of eveloution that turned it into a hen egg.
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☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
>>a three week moment of silence

Broken only by the occasional sound of a repeat

Damn - nearly made 2 wks undisturbed!

Ah well, reset the clocks everyone ...

PLEASE TRY NOT TO POST HERE UNTIL OCTOBER :)
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UnexplainedWaysCommented:
oh sorry my bad, i didn;t know i wasn't meant to post, i only just found this section.

Wont be hearing from me again, untill october. pitty i can't ask why your trying ot do this because that would involve yet another reply.
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
we are trying to get this sent to clean up  we cant do that unless everyone here is very very quiet for three weeks.  you can lurk but do it silently.  be very very quiet we hunting rabbits.  and we don't care where the hell they hatched from.  the asker is gone and we wants our POINTS!  and a rabbit i guess if we're hunting rabbits.  i guess we're really hunting clean-up volunteers.

basically, unless it is of the utmost importance, i.e. you are going to die and we can do something to stop it, DO NOT SAY ANYTHING.  and really, support is much better at handling immanent death. really, we're more likely to be the ones causing said death.

if you want to say something funny or clever or apropos, and have no where to go, or really want to keep a thread alive, go to http://www.experts-exchange.com/Miscellaneous/Lounge/Q_20392238.html, aptly titled, THIS THREAD WILL NEVER CLOSE.   those people have been getting comment notifications for almost four years so they apparantly don't mind comment spam or e-mail floods.

all right people, do it with me now, the hardest thing you will ever have to do, say....nothing.   no, not even that
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
rabbits don't lay eggs
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
<no, not even that>

nothing at all.  shhhhhh.....yes, you too.  
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Flare_PhoenixCommented:
We talking about a hen egg? Because i am fairly sure there were animals before the hen, which were laying eggs (Dinosaurs if i recall) so therefore the egg must have come first.
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
look at the wording of the question.  and the very first answer.  and lots of mine.  it's non specific.

and STOP COMMENTING PEOPLE

i don't care if you have some burning question.  you can most likely answer it yourself by looking at the page.  we do not have fonts of knowledge that you don't.  we can see the exact page you can.

i also don't care if you think you have something really important/brilliant to say.  most likely it's not.

now, be quiet everyone.  or i'll start throwing eggs.  and hens.  and dinasours.  and anything else i can find.
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andyalderSaggar makers bottom knockerCommented:
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muso120999Commented:
Cool link andyalder!  Finally an original and interesting comment in this thread!
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neopolitanCommented:
I think people are going to find new chickens and eggs as long as this thread stays open!
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neopolitanCommented:
If you want a crazy professor writing paper, check this:
http://isotropic.org/uw/papers/chicken.pdf

And if you want to play chicken and egg game:
http://flasharcade.com/chickenandeggs.html

Even the delay in linux desktop is due to resolving the chicken and egg problem!
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1897398,00.asp

And we can go on forever..............
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☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
>> And we can go on forever..............

It does seem like it, perhaps we should just post every 20 days and go for one of the longest open threads on the site ;)
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UnexplainedWaysCommented:
I think you need to have more open questions in the "Puz & Rid" section so people wont see them and wont post.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Did you know that the gestation period of a chicken is 20-22 days?  Coincidence?
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HuntyCommented:
I do believe you just laid an egg with that comment.... :-P
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muso120999Commented:
This thread is becoming eggscruciating.
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Aramis11Commented:
Sort of brings to mind an ironically priceless Batman villain.
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HuntyCommented:
Egghead?  :-)
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muso120999Commented:
Ad praesens ova cras pullis sunt meliora.
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HuntyCommented:
ACK!  I don't speak Latin damnit.
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Jason210Commented:
Omg is this still going on? What a waste of disk space.

Muso>>Ad praesens ova cras pullis sunt meliora.

Present eggs are better than tomorrow with the chickens?

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lovewithnofaceCommented:
Ok.  This will not be closed and will continue for forever unless we can all be quiet for three weeks.  Now we have come very close several times.  But, we will be waiting for years for there to be enough P&R threads (Puzzles and Riddles, not Philosophy and Religion) in order to knock this off the front page, so we simply MUST muster the will power ourselves.

BE QUIET!  Create a new Puzzles and Riddles thead!  Create a new Philosophy and Religion thread!  Get a life!  I don't really care.  But unless you're comment is going to get 99.9% of the people on the this thread to vote it the funniest comment, and keep in mind that they would be voting over their own comment, be quiet!  Just distract yourself for three weeks.  That's all I ask.  Please.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Date: 10/01/2006 10:44PM BST
 Date: 10/05/2006 09:58PM BST

We were nearly four days in until a few minutes ago
;-)
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muso120999Commented:
Jason210 > Present eggs are better than tomorrow with the chickens?

Almost: Eggs today are better than chickens tomorrow.


> What a waste of disk space.

Delete your cache and unsub.  Job's a good 'un ;-)
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moorhouselondonCommented:
TGIF

Thank god it's friedegg tomorrow
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HuntyCommented:
.....and the yokes just keep on coming....
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Aramis11Commented:
^ Could not hold a candle to that one but still want to be her Casan-ova.
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Jason210Commented:
Egg-jelly - is Strine for what?
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muso120999Commented:
Nah, you wouldn't want to end up getting egg on your face! :-P
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muso120999Commented:
Egg-jelly?
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Jason210Commented:
Egg-jelly, I quite enjoy this thread.
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magnetic_kisserCommented:
lov_hacker on 04/09/2006
 Jason210   on 10/06/2006

wow ...................have u all read this egg and chick en stuff !! :-o
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avinashrkCommented:
HI,,

Think cool, Logically,in a calm way,in silent ,close ur eyes

think
think
think

go to history..(in mind).....

think

before a hen came out.. there was another bird which was similar to this hen ..
there was a partial change in that bird .. and the next version of that bird was a hen..
ther was a slow change from that bird to hen ... only a slight difference,,,, it changed slowly...
and became a hen... it took more than a thousand of years for that transition,...
Now also there may be some transition of the mammels ... from generation to generation...
but we may not abel to observe it,,,,

but hen should be ihn the egg first ...
I think EGG came to this WORLD FIRST...
:-)
bcz from egg only a transition should take place...
what ever may be the parent bird...
THNINK. DEEPLY....INTO THE PAST>>>
U will find out ....
Points Please.....
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magnetic_kisserCommented:
>>>I think EGG came to this WORLD FIRST

if egg would be first then how egg was created ?? well someone must have been laid that egg ...but that someone who had laid that egg comes from an egg and after generations and generations back we still see hens laing egg and from eggs hen come out !!

well may be when God created all animals hen and cock was created and then egg comes out !!
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sandip132Commented:
lov_hacker ,
First tell us, When the Cock come, before egg or Hen ?
you must got the answer. ;-)

Regards,
Sandip.
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Galisteo8Commented:
Gosh, I almost hate to add to this thread again........................... Oh, well.

>magnetic_kisser: if egg would be first then how egg was created ?? well someone must have been laid that egg ...but that someone who had laid that egg comes from an egg and after generations and generations back we still see hens laing egg and from eggs hen come out !!

As someone pointed out many moons ago in this thread, the first biological object that could properly be called an egg would have been produced by some kind of reptilian animal, long before hens and chickens even existed.  So, in that sense, the egg came first.

(In the rhetorical sense, however, which is how the question is ultimately posed, there is no answer.  If there were an answer, the rhetorical question would never have been asked.)
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Jason210Commented:
Comment from avinashrk

>I think EGG came to this WORLD FIRST...:-)

The chicken represents the adult lifeform, the actual form that the whole cycle is about. The egg is a step in the reproduction of a new chicken.

If we define life by the ability to replicate (seems a good defintion to me), then there must have been a molecule, a virus type thing that "replicated". The point being, there has to be an original for replication to take place. So, the chicken, in some sense, is the original, and the egg the "replicated".
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magnetic_kisserCommented:
Galisteo8 ...............

since then it would be a question that dinosours comes first or the egg ?? what do u so abt that ?
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abruskoCommented:
...And knowing the answer to this question will enhance your life how???
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magnetic_kisserCommented:
naah not enhance life ....but this can be a gr8 medical question i may post a request to tranfer it in Religion and philosphy by looking such great audience answering :)

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Jason210Commented:
Can we apply the chicken and egg question to humans, and see where we get?
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muso120999Commented:
Huh? What do you mean?  Which came first: man or woman? mammals or eggs?
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Jason210Commented:
Exactly...
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abruskoCommented:
...And there is a person out there who actually has the answer to this question...and can prove it?
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magnetic_kisserCommented:
Can we apply the chicken and egg question to humans, and see where we get?

well philospy section have all the madness it can have .......and some top rated experts from philospy section will answer this one ....even they caould prove that red colour is not red :P ...............
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
You are spamming all of us who are still on this thread, waiting for an eventual close, or perhaps a clever answer or two in the meantime.  I'm more than annoyed that once again the three week process has been interrupted, but not of you is attempting to answer the question--rather you are having an annoying IM-type conversation that is barely even on topic.  If you want to debate the merits of the question or of EE or of the P&R sections, open another question, or take it elsewhere.  Stop spamming everyone still on this thread.

Thank you.
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muso120999Commented:
If you unsub, lovewithnoface, you will only receive one more notif when the answer is closed (I believe).  If you think an answer is forthcoming at this point, then it's unlikely to be anything groundbreaking.  This tired old question has been beaten to a bloody amorphous lump. It's not even twitching any more at this point.

> prove that red colour is not red

Tempting... :-P
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HuntyCommented:
>> prove that red colour is not red
>Tempting... :-P

Didn't we talk about this yesterday?  ;-)
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abruskoCommented:
Some chickens are red...do they come from red eggs?  Or should I say....did a red egg come from a red chicken...gosh this is fun and interesting.
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magnetic_kisserCommented:
its from apiril lovenoface.......the user might be not active at EE now ......u say spamming ?? .....u could easily direct all EE emails to junk on ur email adreess...what abt the other questioned opened which is abt to complete an year ??...it would be extremely good if u dont visit this question any more ....!! it would save ur time much !!......

red eggs..........hmm may be in the past eggs were red ....as time passes by eggs like other asnimals changed colour....they became white now !!
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
Magnetic Kisser--yes, I know that the user is no longer active at EE.  But, if there is no activity on this question for three weeks it can go to clean-up.  But, that is not the point.  What the most recent comments have been are in fact spamming.  You are completely off-topic, and those of us on this thread should not have to change our e-mail habbits (how we receive EE mail or unsubscribing from this question) simply because people on the thread have an unability to follow the EE site rules.  I realize that this question is not a serious one, and that there is a very relaxed atmosphere here, and that you and the other might not have known--which is why I commented here first instead of immediately reporting the thread to support.

But, I do want to continue receiving EE mail and I do want to stay subscribed to this thread and this thread isn't supposed to include whether or not philosophy and religion people can convince you that red is in fact no red, or another of the other variety of things you have been recently talking about.  Our discussing whether or not your posts are spamming is also in effect spamming everyone else on this thread, so please, either let the thread lie, or if you actually have an answer that hasn't been posted yet, go ahead and post it.  But let's leave it at that.
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
>I do want to stay subscribed to this thread  - why??

You don't appear to have any real interest in finding an answer, just in the closure of the thread. Your first appearance in here was some ten weeks after the question was first asked and most of your input since then has been asking people not to post in it - that's about as effective as putting a sign up asking people to avoid touching the wet paint.
The asker seems to have left and in their absence a vote by all participants would probably result in a majority for 'don't care', but you are right in suggesting that your discussion about spamming results in unwanted posts - it does.
I remain subscribed to this because I enjoy the happy, slightly off-topic conversations that appear in here - I'm looking forward to next Easter when it can start all over again.
Please keep posts either on topic or humerously close. Suggesting that another TA can help with the definition of the colour of an egg is could be useful and could be relevant - it may not be up to you to decide.

If you do unsubscribe you can still look in at your leisure to see any new comments, all that would change is that you wouldn't get a notif every time there was a comment added.

I think it's the egg
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jahboiteCommented:
Didn't Mork arrive in an egg?

We'd have to go to Ork to find out if they had eggs before we had hens.

And just to check, we might have to travel to the outer edge of the universe to see if a planet exists on which eggs or hens have evolved - these worlds would likely have evolved such things before us so whilst our eggs might come before our hens, our eggs might come after their eggs and they might have hens that came before our eggs and our hens and even possibly before their eggs.

EE calling Orson, come in Orson...
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harfangCommented:
I had a chat with my daughter about this thread. Of course, she loved the question, but was amazed by my selected translations. As lovewithnoface seems to expect more on-topic coments, here goes our 7-year old compatible conclusion...

1) if the question is about "any egg" and "a hen", the answer is trivial: there were egg-laying animals before chicken. Thus the question is non-interresting and we can drop it.

[Note: I will let creationists argue between themselves to decide whether God created a hen and a rooster, or just a couple of eggs... Would these be called "divine eggs", btw?]

2) if the question is about "chicken eggs" and "chicken", we need a more precise language than english, because english does not require a qualifier between the word "chicken" and "egg" in the expression "chicken egg". But we can simulate it:

2a) "egg from a chicken" or "chicken"

Well, that is easy. If a "chicken egg" is an "egg laid by a chicken", then the chicken came first. Proof: a non-fertilized egg laid by a chicken is called a "chicken egg".

[Note: this is the trivial conclusion in most languages. For example "oeuf de poule" is french for "chicken egg", but it means "egg from a chicken". This is the only philosophically acceptable answer, of course.]

2b) "egg to become chicken" or "chicken"

Easy as well. If a "chicken egg" is the unhatched embryo stage of the adult chicken, then the egg came first, because the first chicken must have hatched from an chicken egg. Proof: the egg has the same genes as the chicken that will eventually hatch from it. If we have a genetic criteria to distinguish a chicken from a proto-chicken, it applies to the egg also.

[Parental note: although cute and often defended in this thread, this answer implies that an unfertilized egg is not a "chicken egg", in fact not even an "egg" in the biological sense. Perhaps 2b emerges from a semantic confusion between "zygote" and "egg". Compare with: "the first chicken appeared as a zygote in a proto-chicken egg (fertilized by a proto-rooster and laid by a proto-hen)."]

2c) "chicken egg" or "chicken"

If one resolutely refuses to define what is meant by the puzzling expression "chicken egg", then it's a riddle, used as a metaphor for an infinite causal chain. As such it has no answer. Compare this to "is the highest integer even or odd?".

[Note: the french version of the question is "l'oeuf ou la poule", not "l'oeuf de poule ou la poule", which would make the point moot...]

Conclusion:

As many seemingly difficult philosophical questions, this one resolves when using other languages to express it. This is also why the only good answers (unlike this one) are puns.

(^v°)
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lovewithnofaceCommented:
@RobinD

how is this an Easter thread?  I get the obvious egg and life connotations of Easter, but I'm a bit confused about this being an Easter thread.


I do have an interest in this thread.  I thought that it was funny when I first got here (I don't know how my arrival time is relevant) and have loved reading the answers.  I have asked that people not interrupt the three week process just to interrupt it, just to bump the thread and keep it alive, and I'm not the only one who has.  If they've posted a new answer or picture or joke, that's one thing.  But I do have a problem with off-topic postings and with people interrupting that three-week process posting a joke that's on the thread twice, or with an answer that's on the thread 5 times--often they've already posted it before.  When there have been two weeks or almost three weeks of no activity and suddenly, someone comes and posts saying "it can't be the chicken because the chicken came from the egg" and they've already said that twice, then that's not ok.  And it adds nothing to the thread.  The posts that I have a problem with are against EE site policy too.  



Colouring eggs--if they manage to connect it, go ahead.  I'm sure someone could come up with a great story about how eggs didn't exist until Easter and the colour would play a great part in it.  But, I didn't say ANYTHING about coloured eggs.  I said that the comments about how P&R people could "prove that red colour is not red" were completely off-topic and spam.


Please don't misquote me.


-------------------------------------------

I'm suprised no one has managed to get Faberge eggs into this thread.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Did you know that Jean Paul Sartre wrote a lot about the philosophy of eggs?
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
>how is this an Easter thread?
I never said it was - please don't misquote me. It had a bit of an awakening last Easter is all, and I expect it will when Easter comes around again.


harfang,
That was a very enjoyable read and probably one of the best and most complete contributions so far!

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