Video Card Upgrade Needed for daewoo computer

Im looking to upgrade the tower system below and was wondering what type of video card would be accomodated by the system....the agp 4x is integrated onboard but im curious as to what speed/memory card i can put in.....I am unclear from the website. I was looking at this website "http://www.daytek.ca/ct673027.html" Can someone tell me what this system would support for the upgradeable video card as Ive talked to daewoo and the salesperson kept telling me i could buy any card from ati and nvidia....I was a little skeptical so i thought id post here just in case...Thanks

Tower System (daewoo) CT6730 - C27/28
 

Specification
 
CHIPSET
VIA KM266 North Bridge

L2 CASH

1 PBSRAM, 512KB, Built-in-M/B
32K x 8-bit, 8nSEC

MEMORY

4x 184-pin 2.5V DDR SDRAM Socket (PC2100/1600)
System has 256MB DDR SDRAM
MAX 2 GB (DDR SDRAM)

3D AUDEO
Integrated AC97 2.2 Audio Codec


FDD
3.5" 1.44MB


I/O PORT
Integrated Super I/O (FDC, LPT, COM 1/2 and IR)
1 Floppy Disk Controller (Up to 2.88MB)
1 VGA Connector
2 Serial ports (COM A + COM B) or 1 Serial port with 1 VGA port
1 Parallel port supports EPP/ECP mode
USB Ports
LAN: VIA VT8235 integrated MAC + VT6103 PHY
Audio Ports (Line-in, Line-out, Mic-in and CD-in)
 
IDE


Bus Master, PIO Mode 4 (-16.67MB/s)
Ultra DMA-66/100/133
2 40-pin Boxed-Headers for IDEs & ATAPI


EXPANSION SLOT
1 AGP (Supports AGP 2.0)
3.3V / 5V PCI PUS Interface
1 CNR (Communication Network Riser) slot


KEYBOARD/MOUSE
PS/2 type


CASE
ATX Tower


DRIVE BAYS
2 x 5.25" External
1 x 3.5" Internal


BIOS
Award PnP V1.0/APM V1.2/Multi Boot
Flash EPROM
Desktop Management Interface (DMI) function


USB
6x USB Connectors


POWER


300 watts (ATX SMPS)
ACPI, PCI 2.1, PC98 support
Auto Fan Control Support
Keyboard Password Power ON


THERMAL MONITORING


Detect Processor temperature
 

* Specifications, components and software are subject to change without notice.
* All other products or brand names are registered trademarks of their respective companies.
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frogglegsAsked:
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nltechCommented:
the speed of the gpu on the card or how much memory it has, doesn't matter.  you can put anything you want in it so long as it's compatible with agp 4x and your operating system, which would be pretty much any new agp card available on the market today.

get what you can afford to spend or is suitable for your expected needs (games, dual display, etc)...  if you play games on it you might want to check out some benchmarks, so head over to www.tomshardware.com

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frogglegsAuthor Commented:
thx nltech.....i just wasnt sure though the integrated 4x was there , if  a guy could put an 8x card in the agp slot.....i didnt want to get an 8x card and have it not work.....the sales guy was telling me any agp card would do but would not even look up the system to make sure if the board supported an 8x card...

Its getting hard to find 4x cards out where i live anyway as all the new stuff selling is 8x.....
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willcompCommented:
Here's a card that should work.  Per specs you listed, AGP slot is 2X which limits you to a 4X AGP card.  8X cards are compatible with 4X slots but not 2X slots.

http://www.directron.com/rv6db3.html
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nltechCommented:
8x card should work in a 4x slot just fine. in fact i have an 8x card in a similar motherboard in the system i'm typing on right now..  if you read the specs, you'll find they're listed as "4x/8x"
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CallandorCommented:
Don't worry too much about an 8X card working in a 4X slot: http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Q_21186300.html.  Performance-wise, you probably won't see much difference between an 8X and a 4X card.
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willcompCommented:
Copied from his question:

EXPANSION SLOT
1 AGP (Supports AGP 2.0)
3.3V / 5V PCI PUS Interface
1 CNR (Communication Network Riser) slot


If it's an AGP 2.o slot, AGP 8X won't work at all.  Better to be safe and get a 4X card.
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CallandorCommented:
Dalton,

This says an AGP 8X card will step down to 4X if the slot doesn't provide 0.8v: http://www.directron.com/15agpguide.html.  Thoughts?
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frogglegsAuthor Commented:
so the AGP 2.0 means the slot is 2X but a 4X card will work?
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CallandorCommented:
No, the AGP 2.0 spec allows for 1X, 2X, and 4X modes.
    * 1x (266Mbps) (8 bytes per two clock cycles)
    * 2x (533Mbps) (8 bytes per clock cycle)
    * 4x (1.07Gbps) (16 bytes per clock cycle)
http://www.motherboards.org/articles/tech-planations/920_4.html
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willcompCommented:
An AGP 8X card will work in a 4X slot as I previously stated.  However, it will not work in an AGP 2X slot.

All that aside, slot is AGP 2.0 not 2X (my bad), which means it's a 4X slot and most 8X cards should work.
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willcompCommented:
Callandor posted while I was preparing response above.  He is correct.
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frogglegsAuthor Commented:
so Callandor what would be the "AGP? spec" for a card running 8X mode? Thx
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TechInsiderCommented:
Here's the link and description you'll need to understand what AGP 2.0 handles:

http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_AGP.html

-------snipet
The AGP 1.0 specification defined 1x and 2x speeds with the 3.3v keyed connector.
The AGP 2.0 specification defined 1x, 2x and 4x speeds with the 3.3v, or 1.5v keyed connector or a 'Universal' connector which supported both card types.
The AGP Pro specification defined 1x, 2x and 4x speeds with the 3.3v, or 1.5v keyed connector or a 'Universal' connector which supported both card types.
The AGP 3.0 specification defined 1x, 2x, 4x and 8x speeds with the 1.5v keyed connector or a 1.5v AGP Universal / Pro connector.
Each up-grade is a super-set of the 1x mode, so 4x will also support the 1x speed. The base clock rate is 66MHz, but to achieve to 2x, 4x, and 8x speeds the clock is doubled each time. AGP uses both edges of the clock to transfer data.

AGP (1x): 66MHz clock, 8 bytes/clock, Bandwidth: 266MB/s [3.3V or 1.5V signal swing]
AGP 2x: 133MHz clock, 8 bytes/clock, Bandwidth: 533MB/s [3.3V or 1.5V signal swing]
AGP 4x: 266MHz clock, 16 bytes/clock, Bandwidth: 1066MB/s [1.5V signal swing]
AGP 8x: 533MHz clock, 32 bytes/clock, Bandwidth: 2.1GB/s [0.8V signal swing], still uses 1.5 volt motherboard power
------end snipet

Ok, so what's all that mean?  It means that your AGP 2.0 slot will deliver either 3.3v (for AGP 1x and 2x cards) OR it can deliver 1.5v to meet the specification of AGP 4x and 8x.  

I've dropped dozens of 5000 and 6000 series Nvidia video cards into AGP 2.0 slots, and they work just fine.  AGP 8x cards simply step down to 4x performance when inserted into a 4x slot.

6000 series Nvidia cards and x700/x800 series ATI cards do have very high power requirements however.  Your power supply should be no less than 350w, if you choose to go with these more advanced options.  300w might work, but you'll be pushing it very hard.

Ok more info...

Here's a link for the VIA KM266 chipset, used in your Daewoo:

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/legacy/km266/

Again, nothing new here.  AGP 2.0 (2x/4x) just as you indicated.  From the system specs here, I know your system can take a 5000 series Nvidia (5500 or 5750 might be good choices), or an ATI 9700 or 9800 Pro.  Again, the wattage requirements of last years cards (6000 series and x700/X800 series) may be to high for your power supply.

Your salesperson was pretty much right, except he may not have considered your 300w power supply in the equation.

Hope that helps!

-TechInsider
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nltechCommented:
see here for additional information on agp.. http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/agpcompatibility.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Graphics_Port

so long as the card you get is an agp 1.5 volt card, it *will* work on that board. it don't matter if it's 1x, 1x/2x, 2x, 2x/4x, 4x, or 4x/8x... as long as the voltage is right, 1.5v.

if it's 8x only, stay away (0.8v only);
if it's 4x/8x, check the specs (could be 1.5v or 0.8v);
if it's 2x/4x you're ok; and
if it's 1x, check for the 2 key notches on the connector.

while a 0.8v card may work on your board, there's no guarantees so look only for 1.5v cards.

i'm using a 4x/8x 1.5v geforce 5200 on my km266 asus board right now.

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TechInsiderCommented:
I should add that the system I'm writing from right now is using an i845e chipset, which is also AGP 2.0.  I'm running an 8x Nvidia 6800GT, on a 420w power supply.  While I do only get 4x performance, the video card works perfectly.  http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?categories=1&model=33

AGP 2.0 is 'keyed' for the 1.5 volt spec or the universal spec, as are all cards that can run on 1.5v inputs.  All AGP 4x/8x cards will work just fine in the slot (the larger considerations are space in the case and available power from the power supply).

Your upgrade will work.  Just choose based on space and power availability (300w is not alot).

-TechInsider
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CallandorCommented:
> so Callandor what would be the "AGP? spec" for a card running 8X mode? Thx

TechInsider identified this as AGP 3.0.
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frogglegsAuthor Commented:
i will try to opt for a card that is not too hard on the psu.....i am awaiting a pricelist for 4x cards at the moment....thx for all the details guys
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nltechCommented:
http://tinyurl.com/lt57u will get you started. check the specs. verify at the manufacturer's web site. 1.5 volt agp is all you are looking for. nothing else matters.
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frogglegsAuthor Commented:
seems like many cards dont have the voltage rating stated on the website...this is annoying....also i am looking for a 128 /possibly a 256mb video card...
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TechInsiderCommented:
Yes, AGP 8x runs under motherboards with the 3.0 spec only.  But that's just the bandwidth we're talking about, with regard to 2x, 4x and 8x.  The slot requirements, voltage requirements, input voltages and compatibility are built into the whole of the AGP specification.

Your price for a solid video card with your existing power supply should be somewhere between $46 and $80, depending on the model and features.

Here's the list of all the Nvidia 5500 cards from Newegg.com:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=2010380048+1305520548+1067909563&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48

And if you want to go for something a little more robust, here's a top performer from the Nvidia 5700 series (note the 250w power req...nice!)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814133136

Just so you'll have something to compare to the price list you get from your supplier... =)

-TechInsider
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willcompCommented:
One other thing.  Add more memory.  256MB is bare minimum for XP.  512MB of RAM will increase performance significantly.

Don't go overboard with video and neglect rest of system.

Most any currently available ATI or nVidia AGP card will greatly outperform on-board video (probably S3).
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PCBONEZCommented:
~ WAIT !!!!
~ WAIT !!!!
~ WAIT !!!!

According to the specifications in the link the Asker posted to his system the *AGP Slot*
THE SLOT, is only AGP 2x.

.......
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willcompCommented:
Hello PCBONEZ.  You are making same mistake I initially did by homing in on AGP 2X.  It is an AGP 2.0 rather than AGP 2X slot.  The AGP 2.0 spec is for AGP 4X.  Kinda like the SATA specs, confusing.
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PCBONEZCommented:
Me too, confused APG 2x with 2.0.

But: The voltage refered to when talking about AGP 4x compatibility is NOT the power voltage to the slot it's the SIGNALING voltage. That voltage is 1.5 volts for AGP 4x. . AGP 4x is never any other voltage.

There were lots of problems with people frying video cards and/or motherboards when AGP 4x came out, not only because people got confused and installed the wrong type video card, but also because some of the video card manufacturers implimented the 4x incorrectly on (2x/4x) and (4x/8x) cards.
As far as I know all of those problems are in the past but watch out if you buy a used card.

8x is not -guaranteed- to work in a 4x slot.
Most (currently probably all) manufacturers are making 8x cards the work in either slot.
~ But there's nothing that -MAKES- them do it that way. . 8x ONLY cards could exist (and probably eventually will).
If it doesn't say -flat out- it works in a 4x slot with 1.5v don't assume it does.
.
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PCBONEZCommented:
willcomp.. .. 2x/2.0
Yeah, I skimmed the posts and thought he was about to fry something so I popped that comment off too quick.
~ Oops ~
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willcompCommented:
Due to slot keying, an incompatible card should not install.
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PCBONEZCommented:
~Should~
Depends on the vintage of the card. Origionally they tried to control the signal voltage it by resistance between the A2 pin and ground on the AGP cards with no special keying. It didn't work out well.
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PCBONEZCommented:
The AGP 2.0 specification allows use of a "Universal AGP" 1x/2x/4x AGP slot which is has NO KEYS whatever in the motherboard's slot.
The idea with that slot was to use the A2 pin to tell the mainboard whether to use 3.3v or 1.5v signaling.
A2 grounded meant use 1.5v and A2 open meant use 3.3v.
All AGP 4x cards were supposed to have A2 grounded.
The problems 'then' were (1)that some 3rd party video card manufacturers initially missed that little fact in the specs (this was quickly corrected once enough mainboards got fried) and (2)in some cases earlier 1x/2x cards had A2 grounded by chance because before AGP 2.0 the condition of A2 wasn't an issue.
Now the problem is we have slots with no keys that will let -any- AGP card in and we have video cards that use 0.8v signaling. So long as all those 0.8v cards support 1.5v too it's no biggie but as far as I know there is nothing MAKING vendors support both voltages or both AGP 4x and 8x on the same card.

I have not seen a picture of this Daewoo motherboard because I can't find one.
It is an AGP 2.0 which means it -could- be this Universal AGP slot.
I highly recommend any video card he buys specifically SAYS it's AGP 4x.
.
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TechInsiderCommented:
8x AGP 3.0 Spec cards are still 1.5v cards, with a built-in .8v signal swing.  There's still 1.5v being delivered to that slot, and only an 8x AGP card, in a 3.0 spec slot will cause that .8v swing to fire off.

Any AGP card that reads 4x/8x (like the AGP 3.0 6800GT 8x card sitting in my i845e AGP 2.0 slot), will work just fine.  There's no risk of frying.

I was timid the first time I 'tested the spec' too, but trust me guys, it works, and it works great!

The big concerns, as I previously stated, are power supply output and space in the case.

His 300w power supply will work perfectly with 5th generation AGP 4x or 4x/8x video cards, such as those I listed above (5000 series Nvidias and ATI 9000 series cards).

-TechInsider

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PCBONEZCommented:
TechInsider, that's because AGP 3.0 allows 3 different kinds of cards and you didn't have an straight "AGP 3.0" card, you had one of the two "Universal AGP 3.0" cards.

The different AGP specs allow for 6 different slots and 6 different kinds of cards.
People seem to want to think there are only like 3 variations. Not true....

Motherboard Slot ............. Key(s) ... Speed(s) ..... Voltage(s)
AGP 3.3v .......................... 3.3v ....... 2x, 1x .......... 3.3v
AGP 1.5v .......................... 1.5v ...... 4x, 2x, 1x ...... 1.5v
Universal AGP .................. NONE ..... 4x, 2x, 1x ...... 3.3v, 1.5v
AGP 3.0 ........................... 1.5v ....... 8x, 4x ............ 0.8v
Universal 1.5v AGP 3.0 ...... 1.5v .... 8x, 4x, 2x, 1x .... 1.5v, 0.8v
Universal AGP 3.0 ............ NONE .... 8x, 4x, 2x, 1x ... 3.3v, 1.5v, 0.8v

Graphics Card .................. Key(s) ....... Speed(s) ..... Voltage(s)
AGP 3.3v ..........................3.3v ........... 2x, 1x ........... 3.3v
AGP 1.5v ..........................1.5v ........ 4x, 2x, 1x ......... 1.5v
Universal AGP .............. 3.3v, 1.5v .... 4x, 2x, 1x ......... 3.3v, 1.5v
AGP 3.0 .......................... 1.5v ........... 8x, 4x ............ 0.8v
Universal 1.5v AGP 3.0 ..... 1.5v ....... 8x, 4x, 2x, 1x ..... 1.5v, 0.8v
Universal AGP 3.0 ....... 3.3v, 1.5v .... 8x, 4x, 2x, 1x ..... 3.3v, 1.5v, 0.8v

A universal slot has no key.
A universal card has both keys or an absence of pins in the key region.

There are 36 possible combinations and advertisers are lazy about correct names.
You need to read the SPECS, not the ad, before you buy something.
.
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TechInsiderCommented:
Sigh...

It's a VIA KM266 board.  Daewoo doesnt have the PC manufacturing power to redo mainboards.

It's a straight, good ol' 2x/4x AGP 2.0 slot.  1.5v and keyed.  2x/4x/8x will all work in the slot.  Out of the 36 combinations, only what...6 won't work?  AGP looks complicated, but they've been really good about keeping compatibility between new cards, and previous generation AGP slots.

I can't think of a 5000 series or ATI 9000 series card that won't work in his system.

Of course, the solution to all this speculation is to:

A.  Look at your board, and take note of the key, if any, on the slot.  It'll either be mostly toward front of the slot (the back of the PC), or mostly to the other end of the slot (toward the front of the PC)...or not there at all.

B.  Take a look at where you card plugs into the key, if any.  You can buy any card with an open key area in that same spot, or a card with both key slots open.  4x/8x should be enough 'spec' for you to find the proper card, in the face of the lazy manufacturers :)  Remember, to watch your power reqs. on the card.

-TechInsider

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PCBONEZCommented:
TechInsider,
It's a VIA KM266 chipset. That doesn't make it a VIA board.
Daewoo builds cars, TV's, microwaves, home DVD players, too.
Maybe they don't anymore but from the days of 286 through socket 7 (at least) they did in fact make their own boards.

I never said anything pertaining to you suggested combination. I'm sure it would work fine.

What I did say was if you have a 4x slot MAKE SURE the video card supports 4x.

My intent with the detail was to dispell blanket statements made by several people in here that, while usually true, aren't ALWAYS true. (As in suggesting that an 8x card will -always- work in a 4x slot.)  Remember other people with similar problems might read this months or years from now and a blanket statement like that may burn THEM in the future.  
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TechInsiderCommented:

The only spec turnover that "caused cards to fry" was the brief transition from 1x/2x to 2x/4x (1.0 to 2.0), where the card voltage changed from 3.3v to 1.5v....the 6 'death combos' listed by Bonez, that just don't work.  There are some instances where an individual manufacturer deviates from the Nvidia or ATI specification, and those cards (like a few from BIG) prove highly unstable when stepping down from 8x to 4x.  They don't burn up, but they don't work well either.

The Death Combo (as it shall be known here to fore =) simply doesn't happen often enough to dwell on...we're talking Pentium II and K6 class systems here, and in combinations that have been largely engineered away by sustaining engineers and retail revisions.

If he sticks a "pure" 8x AGP card in there, and it fits, IT WILL WORK (assuming his power supply doesn't crackle from the strain).  It might not be stable, if he chooses a 6th generation card (Nvidia 6000 series or ATI x700/x800), but that's a refund for replacement situation, not a fried system.

Here's the Nvidia press release on the matter from waaaaay back in 2002, when 8x AGP was first released on their cards (I should add, this release was long before 8x AGP was actually available on any computer or custom board)...  source: http://www.widowpc.com/pdfs/AGP8X_92502v1.pdf

"The AGP 3.0 specification provides a smooth upgrade path to AGP 8X. The mechanical bus specification remains the same. AGP 8X speeds and capabilities are
achieved by taking advantage of some previously unused pins, but in a manner that facilitates the support of AGP 8X cards in existing AGP 2X and 4X systems, as well as new systems that fully leverage the 8X interface. NVIDIA AGP 8X graphics solutions will be able to detect the AGP level of the host system, and automatically configure the AGP interface to run in 3.0 mode (at 4X or 8X speeds), or in 2.0 mode (at 2X or 4X speeds). Therefore, a new NVIDIA graphics solution will be fully capable of 8X speeds, and will be completely compatible with 2X, 4X, and 8X systems. The NVIDIA-based cards will automatically deliver the maximum speed supported by the host system."  Nvidia is referring directly to their series 5000 cards here, and implying backward compatibility on all AGP designs going forward.

......"The mechanical bus system remains the same...."....there's no physical difference between a 2x/4x and a 4x/8x AGP slot.  The signal lanes and bandwidth paths change to allow 8x AGP it's speed...not the slot.  Variations caused by keying ARE the built in protection mechanism against cards or boards that cant handle voltage self-regulation.  The danger of electrical damage from the 8x card to 4x slot combo is dang near non-existent (power supply output not withstanding).


ATI cards work similarly.

I realize I'm defending (and making) alot of blanket statements that could ultimately be proven wrong, at least from a stability stand point. But in most feasible cases, those statements are correct, especially when dealing with 4x and 8x combinations.  

With 1x/2x to 2x/4x combinations, I totally agree...check and recheck specs very carefully.  The 1x/2x 1.0 board combined with a universal 2x/4x or 4x/8x card is the big gotchya in all this.

Anyway, Frogleggs ....  =)

Enjoy your upgrade.  You'll be just fine.  Choose an Nvidia 5000 series with 256mb of memory, if you wish (PNY or eVGA are excellent choices), and you're pretty much guaranteed success by Nvidia's own press release.

Please let us know what you choose and how the whole thing worked out!

-TechInsider
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PCBONEZCommented:
TechInsider

Thank you for the vast commentary confirming in great detail exactly what I said.

As to Daewoo's manufacturing power.
The Award BIOS manufacturer's code "D7" is used for Daewoo manufactured mother boards.
Why do you suppose there's a code for Daewoo?
Daewoo makes very few -personal- computer motherboards and they don't offer any sort of on-line support for those they do make. But they DO make them. Most of Daewoo's motherboards are industrial motherboards used in such things as factory robotics, CNC Mills, or other automated control systems.
.
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TechInsiderCommented:
Wow, that was a quick month.

Did the upgrade go smoothly?

-TI
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GranModCommented:
PAQed with no points refunded (of 500)

GranMod
Community Support Moderator
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