Want to protect your cyber security and still get fast solutions? Ask a secure question today.Go Premium

x
?
Solved

Ways to get text / keywords up front?

Posted on 2006-04-17
24
Medium Priority
?
253 Views
Last Modified: 2010-04-27
Have several very graphical sites, am looking for ways to place small text excerpts of keywords to be found easily by search engines (other than metatags, etc).  One idea I had was image captions, or maybe placing text to be overlaid by images, or similar ideas, without violating touchy search engines!

Anyone willing to contribute specific HTML coding that works for SEO?  Excerpts need to be at top of pages, where it is mostly images and little text. I also thought of the <noscript> tag putting text in there, but that usually comes at bottom.  Have already moved most JS and long CSS. Know about invisible text already.

No site redesign suggestions please, just looking for a few unique ideas to get text (like an overview or keywords of site) near top of site pages with lots of graphics and little text.  

Thank you.
0
Comment
Question by:scrathcyboy
  • 11
  • 6
  • 5
  • +2
24 Comments
 
LVL 5

Assisted Solution

by:sitecreations
sitecreations earned 320 total points
ID: 16473427
One idea that seems to work for many in this situation...

In your HTML:

<BLOCKQUOTE>
text that you really want to use, but make sure it's nice and relevant!!!!  
If you fill this in with garbage you deserve to be banned.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<img src="yourfancyimage.jpg">
...and so on



In your CSS:

BLOCKQUOTE {
    display:none
}


PS: You can look through the hundreds of sites I've worked on and not find one of these.   Why?  This technique "works a little" --- real content on the site, at the top., tagged well and relevant "works a lot."  If your competitors are using real, textual content done right, this technique will probably not let you out-rank them on this basis alone.

0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16473515
good tip, nice, keep them coming ... how about image description tag, you can figure this better than me?
0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16473525
correction - GREAT tip !!!
0
VIDEO: THE CONCERTO CLOUD FOR HEALTHCARE

Modern healthcare requires a modern cloud. View this brief video to understand how the Concerto Cloud for Healthcare can help your organization.

 
LVL 7

Assisted Solution

by:ashishjvw
ashishjvw earned 960 total points
ID: 16475281
"Maybe placing text to be overlaid by images"
NOT A VERY GOOD IDEA.

I would go for  <img src=abc.gif alt="the stuff over here"><BR>Other stuff here


Regards,
ASHISH T.
0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16475296
And are the SEs likely to index the "alt=" content, or will they just ignore it, as for javascript?
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:ashishjvw
ID: 16475304
"as for javascript?"
?????

Nope, search engines wont ignore the alt tag.


Regards,
ASHISH T.
0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16475341
thank you, I assumed search engines ignore text in javascript links, e.g. everything in link below is ignored, except that it is a link and the words "Customize Page", i.e. if the JS text was say 3 lines long and full of important key words, it would be ignored anyway, because it is a javascript link, yes? no?

<A HREF="javascript:load('customize.html','dest')" onMouseOver="self.status='How to Customize your  Page';return true" onMouseOut="self.status='';return true" title='How to Customize your Page'><FONT size="1" face="Arial">Customize Page</FONT></A><BR>
       
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:WelkinMaze
ID: 16478570
Here's a suggestion. Write what you want with the smallest font and with color that is the same as the background color but make it to has some sense though since it could be still easily viewable in some ways.
0
 
LVL 7

Assisted Solution

by:ashishjvw
ashishjvw earned 960 total points
ID: 16479111
"Write what you want with the smallest font and with color that is the same as the background color "

1.DONT DO THAT.

2.YES. JAVASCRIPT WONT BE PICKED UP BY SEARCH ENGINES BUT <A TITLE = "THIS IS GOOD TECHNIQUE TOO FOR SEARCH ENGINES">WHATEVA HERE</A>


rEGARDS,
ASHISH T.
0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16512545
Any more ideas before I close this question?  Thanks
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:weikelbob
ID: 16549791
For sites that have a fixed-width, centered layout you can also use absolute positioning.

0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16550148
could you please explain what you mean by that, i.e. how it would be used to add extra SEO text?
And what about the position of the <noscript> text, can it come at the sart of the body, and what are adverse effects of doing that?
0
 
LVL 7

Accepted Solution

by:
weikelbob earned 720 total points
ID: 16554146
I don't know about <noscript> tags, perhaps another expert can help out with that.

However, if you have a fixed width layout (like a 780px wide CSS container, for example) you can place a div high up in your code:

<div id="div1">
lots of text including keywords
</div>
...
rest of code

Then you can place the text on your website at the bottom of the page with absolute positioning:

div1
{
position:absolute;
top:600px;
left:0;
}

Your container div must include the code

position:relative;

Then the search engines will read that text first because it's high up in your code but it won't show up at the top of the page in your website, it will be 600 px down the page (or however low you decide to place it)

It's only safe to use this, though if you have a fixed width container div for your entire website.
container
{
width:780px;
...
position:relative
}

Also, having <h1> and <h2> tags with your keywords inside at the top of your code is very important. Externalize your CSS and Javascript. Also, this should be a last resort as using too much absolute positiong is frustrating to upkeep and it is tricky.


Let me know if you have any more questions.
0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16555695
This is great news, almost all of my sites are fixed width, so it will work.  As I understand --
<div id="index"> this is the indexed stuff </div>
<div id="main> this is the normal part of the page</div>
Then use CSS to make the "main" relative, and the "index" absolute at the bottom of the page, and we also want its visibility to be "none" = hidden.  Sounds like a great plan.  

The only other question is, can you elaborate on this --
"Also, having <h1> and <h2> tags with your keywords inside at the top of your code is very important."

Are you saying that search engines actually look for these heading tags as a key thing to index?
I never use them, so if important, that is another great idea.  Should they go in "index" or "main"?
0
 
LVL 7

Assisted Solution

by:ashishjvw
ashishjvw earned 960 total points
ID: 16555746
Index, main and every page.

Just dont overdo it.

It is better to have keyword in b/w h1, h2 , bold and a href link.


Regards,
ASHISH T.
0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16555808
I have increased points because this seems important issue now coming out.
Ashish -- please explain a little more, what you mean --

"It is better to have keyword in b/w h1, h2 , bold and a href link."

maybe an example, still missing how/why this is valuable.  
Also weikelbob, I wait for your reply too....   Thanks to both
0
 
LVL 7

Assisted Solution

by:weikelbob
weikelbob earned 720 total points
ID: 16556303
The most imporant thing to note first is that a main keywords in a <h1> at the top of the code and less imporant keywords in <h2> tags below the <h1> tags are very much what the search engines are looking for. Keywords in <h1> and <h2> are up there in importance with keywords for a title and keywords in the domain URL.

Also, you can't hide text or <h1>, <h2> tags. If google notices or if someone reports you, you will get thrown out of google's index because Google consider's hiding key SEO pieces spam and works very hard to rid it's system of spam.

>>Then use CSS to make the "main" relative, and the "index" absolute at the bottom of the page, and we also want its visibility to be "none" = hidden.  Sounds like a great plan.  

If your "index" is the inside div with your text you want to work with and your "main" is the container (about 780 pixels wide usually) then you've got it right. Remember, the <h1>,<h2>, and naturally occurring keywords in your text should be at the top of the code. It doesn't matter where it is on the visual page. Only the code matters.

Also, normally the standard is to test in Firefox and IE and you're done, but with absolute positioning I would test further if it's important enough, notably test it on a macintosh if possible if it is important to support it. You're probably fine with IE and FF but if it's really important then test further.

Let me know what else you need.
0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16556678
"If your "index" is the inside div with your text you want to work with and your "main" is the container (about 780 pixels wide usually) then you've got it right."

I thought you suggested to put the DIV1 first (indexed stuff) then DIV2 (main content) separate (both can be fixed width).  Why would you want to put the DIV1 inside the DIV2?  Also, you are saying the h1 h2 tags are important, as google looks for these?  Thanks for further clarification, I need to get this right.

Also, on hiding /visible:none, if this exists in either CSS or JS, I dont see how the spiders will know that?
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:weikelbob
ID: 16557793
I think you understand absolute positioning, but for a clarification, look at #9 in this link:

http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/css/css-tricks.shtml

>>Also, on hiding /visible:none, if this exists in either CSS or JS, I dont see how the spiders will know that?

Even if Google can't find them, competition could report you and get you band. However, Google spends millions each year on how to weed out spammers, and they are very good. I would not be suprised if their algorithms looked for hidden divs and images on top of text inside of CSS or javascript somehow. Nobody knows for sure what to do, but those that are in the works of SEO every day say that Google notices.

<title> tag is very very important. It should contain keywords and only keywords. If you have more than 1 keyword, then it might be a combination of those 2 keywords, but not too long. Keywords in URLs separated by dashes, like www.keywords-here.com/keywords-here/keywords-here.html. But don't be too exact as everything should look as natural as possible. Mix things up and don't be perfect. Then there's <h1> for main or only keyword and <h2> for less important keywords. <h1> and <h2> should be at the top of the code. A small boost may also come from having (though natural looking) keywords in <h3><strong><em> You can use the font-size:% css command to make your <h1> and <h2> as big as the rest of your text if you want, just don't make it small like 1px high or 1%. That's considered spammy. You may notice a pattern: Google wants to weed out spam in any way possible and you should work in the spirit of the google guidlines: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/topic.py?topic=8521

Let me know what else you need to know.
0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16557922
That first link was great, it says the DIV to float needs to be inside the other main DIV.
But also notice this important excerpt from that same page, about ALT text --

"<h1><img src="widget-image.gif" alt="Buy widgets" /></h1>

This is OK but there's strong evidence to suggest that search engines don't assign as much importance to alt text as they do real text (because so many webmasters use the alt text to cram in keywords). So, an alternative would be:

<h1>Buy widgets</h1>

So headings are more important than ALT text.  WHy a heading, why not just normal text?

Im not sure I agree about google figuring out DIVs and Javascript.  I have seen so many news sites that use literally dozens of DIVs, and tons of JS and CSS, but they are indexed by google flawlessly, no penalty.
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:weikelbob
ID: 16558432
>>So headings are more important than ALT text.  WHy a heading, why not just normal text?

Yes. It's all common sense. People tend to put important things in headers, so Google looks there for guidance on where


>>Im not sure I agree about google figuring out DIVs and Javascript.  I have seen so many news sites that use literally dozens of DIVs, and tons of JS and CSS, but they are indexed by google flawlessly, no penalty.

It's called black hat SEO. It is considered bad form by professional SEO's lik Duz, the highest ranking expert in online marketing who doesn't answer questions any more at EE.
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:ashishjvw
ID: 16564246
You already got the answer from others of what you asked me.

Make sure you dont repeat everything everytime.

Like : <h1>Widgets</h1> <h1>Buy widgets</h1> <h1>Widgets here</h1> and stuff like that.


Regards,
ASHISH T.

0
 
LVL 44

Author Comment

by:scrathcyboy
ID: 16564368
Well thanks to all, there were some great ideas come in here --
1.  blockquote
2.  dont put images over text
3.  use title and alt tags to some degree
4.  use h1 and h2 to some degree
5.  use plain b/w text rather than hidden
6.  use divs to rearrange content, and mine -
7.  put noscript at top of page

There is no easy way to split up points fairly here, so I will just assign equal amounts to every suggestion that helped further the knowledge.  If you got 2 x 100, thats because you made 2 good ones.  No real "accepted" here.

Thanks to all contributors, this is turning out to be great section, please give input to me in future, am v. grateful.
0
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:weikelbob
ID: 16565600
Sounds good scrathcyboy. Stop by any time.
0

Featured Post

Upgrade your Question Security!

Your question, your audience. Choose who sees your identity—and your question—with question security.

Question has a verified solution.

If you are experiencing a similar issue, please ask a related question

How does storytelling impact the web? What goes into a great story on the web? And how can it be used for marketing purposes? All of these questions will be answered.
Google webmaster tool or Google search console is an imperative tool for solving different website relevant issues. The amazing features of this tool greatly help to check the indexing and improve the visibility of the site.
An overview of how to create reports in Adobe Analytics (formerly Omniture Site Catalyst) using pageNames, events, eVars and props. This video will show you how to install the Omniture Debugger tool so can see (and test) what is being passed int…
Use Wufoo, an online form creation tool, to make powerful forms. Learn how to choose which pages of your form are visible to your users based on their inputs. The page rules feature provides you with an opportunity to create if:then statements for y…
Suggested Courses

564 members asked questions and received personalized solutions in the past 7 days.

Join the community of 500,000 technology professionals and ask your questions.

Join & Ask a Question