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DOS client can't see XP stations, but can see 98 stations

Hi, I have a client that has a heavy machines controlled by dos 6.22 computers, these comptuers use that net start thing and are able to connect to 98 computers, but the new xp computers seem invisible to them.  Below is what I have tried to rectify the issue.

Loaded netbui on the xp stations from the xp cd
enabled netbios over ip
enabeld the guest account, made it at an admin
set local security policy to the lest restrictions in local account policy
setting the xp stations in an lmhost file on the dos stations

No avail.  I can't ping them (hear I can't anyway) cant net view their netbios names, or IP address.

Help!
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SlickTech
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SlickTech
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scrathcyboyCommented:
Glad to see someone still using DOS systems on network, was VERY reliable, never failed with 95-98.
Unfortunatley with XP, it went to TCP./IP and completely abandoned MSs idea of netbeui, which was non routable protocol, hence non hackable across network to internet.  But now XP go to TCP/IP only, it is a problem for the DOS network systems.  Here are 2 possible solutions, but there are others I can give =

1.  rather than load netbeui, replace that with IPX protocol with netBIOS over IPX.  YOu will find that all of DOS, 95, 98 and XP still understand IPX protocol of Novell, it was original NW protocol and is bulletproof to this day.  XP abandoned Netbeui, but still understands IPX with net bios over IPX, so that is what you want to run on ALL machines, DOS, XP, 98, 95, ALL of them.

2.  If you are still having trouble, make sure net BIOS is enabled over IPX and set this to default protocol and use MS file and print sharing for MS networks, and use IPX net BIOS as the primary transport layer.

For other people new to computers and commenting on this thread, please realize, TCP/IP is not fully supported on DOS systems, so you CANNOT develop a TCP/IP network that works for the good old, reliable DOS systems that will be running long after windows XP has been overtaken by the MAC (gasp!!).
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
Have you run the Network Connection Wizard in XP?
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scrathcyboyCommented:
pls read my last paragraph !!!
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
yes scratchyboy...read it...

You can connect DOS machines to an XP network with netbeui.  Run the Network Connection wizard and make the connection..

Voila..

works
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
@scratchyboy...not to discount what you are saying...just that I've done this before and from experience I'm sharing that it works.
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scrathcyboyCommented:
How do you run a network connection wizard on a DOS machine, are you losing it, dos machine is DOS!!!
You have it backwards, you are really saying, you can get XP to install netbeui, see DOS, that is a big  no brainer, but it is not reliable for the needs of this person, he needs reliable transportable protocol for the DOS systems to extend throughout all resources on the network, even other subnets, and that is not the netbeui protocol, it is IPX, but so few people on EE understand that IPX is better than NB or TCP for local network file sharing, it is the original NVNW protocol that is extensible throughout the NW, not what you suggest, sorry, to expect netbeui to dothis means you dont understand IPX extensibility compared to netbeui.
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
Woah...scratchyboy...

"How do you run a network connection wizard on a DOS machine"

You dont.. you do it on the XP machine.  netbeui is already running as mentioned in the original post on the XP machines & the DOS systems.

In addition, the reliability factor should be converting the communications between the heavy machines to a more current platform than bandaiding the current systems.  Though your IPX comment looks promising, it terminates in longevity.

@slicktech...is there an upgrade path for a controller system that will handle newer computer operating systems?
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jhanceCommented:
To cut through the useless arguments let me just say that there are two options:

1) Install NETBEUI protocol on your XP system.  This is NOT installed by default but it _is_ available:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;301041&sd=tech

2) Install a TCPIP stack on your DOS machine.  This is harder since you need a 3rd party TCPIP protocol stack and MOST IMPORTANTLY, one that works with your network card.  If you must do this, be sure you have the proper drivers for your card before choosing a TCPIP stack.
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SlickTechAuthor Commented:
Scratchboy - can you give me a walkthrough on loading I did add nwlink to the xp client in my last ditch effort of button mashing.  after I loaded it I didnt see where I could enable netbios over ipx, hense the request for walk through.  If you get this, this will be your 3rd answering of my questions.

irwinpks - I'll try going through the wiz, but it does talk with strickly netbeui 98 stations, This was the first thing I did, I loaded netbeui from the XP cd.

jhance - I do have netbeui on the xp station, and am kinda scared to modify the heavy machenery station, I get the feeling if I fubar that thing, I'll be taking a long walk off a short pier.

SlickTech
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
@slicktech....netbeui protocol on the DOS machines???  (just asked to confirm), also for the time being disable Windows Firewall in the XP systems.
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jhanceCommented:
If you have NETBEUI on both the DOS and the XP machines _AND_ they are both on the same subnet (remember NETBEUI is unroutable) then they are ready to communicate.
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scrathcyboyCommented:
The addition of netBIOS over IPX is automatic for XP (finally after 10 years MS is starting to understand robust transport protocols), so all you have to do is add the IPX protocol to the network properties and it will show a grayed check mark for the netbios transport, which is automatically on.  For the DOS and 98 workstations, you will have to (1) manually add it to the DOS NET script (that should be fairly basic), and if you add it to a 98 or 95 machine, when you go to pick the IPX protocol, you need to also go back and select the netbios over IPX just below it.  Remember, these changes will need reboots on all systems.

Then when you have installed the protocols, you will may have to reshare the drives, in dos it is NET USE and a right click on the drives in XP 98, sharing, make sure ALL access is given without a password, else the DOS wont get to them because they dont do PWs.  

Remember, IPX networking has been used flawlessly by Novell since before MS even knew how to network, it works flawlessly between DOS Novell and Windows 95,98, XP systems, I use it all the time, because it is a NON-routable protocol, meaning it is only for local file sharing, and not for internet access, and also meaning you cant hack it like TCP/IP from the outside.  Once you realize this, you can remove Netbeui, since it is MSs lame attempt at a terrible IPX clone, it does nothing that IPX doesnt do better.  Hence you can see a network setup where the FILE SHARING portion is internal, unhackable and uncrackable, and only the XP systems need firewalls, because they are exposed by TCP on the net.

Good luck, it will work, just stick with it.
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jhanceCommented:
I don't understand why you are bringing IPX into this mix.  NETBEUI is all that is needed and is available on both platforms.  IPX (i.e. Novell's IP protocol) is yet another option and I believe this is just confusing this issue.
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scrathcyboyCommented:
IPX MS-style is not novells product, it is MSs own rewrite for the MS platform.  It is far superior to netbeui, and I suggested it as more reliable and works better at the outset, before anyone else commented, and that remains true.  I didnt bring it into any "mix", the questioner wants a solution that works, and that is what works better than netbeui, easier, more reliable, less network traffic, on and on, recommend you learn about it, instead of dismissing it as a product for a different platform.  It is not.
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
@ALL... "ding, ding!" ;-)
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SlickTechAuthor Commented:
sorry guys, I have been avoiding this client, and ended up selling them all new xp computers, I usually award the first poster on questions where there is an unclear answer, but I learned allot from you all, but I think scratcher was on the right path.

Thanks again
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Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
@slick_tech...so...in my 4th comment..

"@slicktech...is there an upgrade path for a controller system that will handle newer computer operating systems?"

did that apply?
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