Using new USB flash drive on older Win 98 PC.

I'm using an older Windows 98 (not SE) computer for backup stuff. I plugged a USB flash thumb drive into the USB socket and the PC recognized it but said it lacked the drivers to run it. I downloaded USB driver from PNY and installed but the USB thumb drive doesn't show up in the My Computer window. When I go to Device Manager and Properties for the USB Storage device, try update driver to USB from C:|Program Files\UStorage Win98 Driver\Drivers\Win98 it says "Windows was unable to locate a driver for this device". What am I doing wrong?
I am unable at this time to find the original Win 98 install disk.

I wish this window had a spell checker available. My typing is terrible :)
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isenbergAsked:
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
ps: e-mail address is for my home. I won't see it until I get home again so don't expect an immediate response.
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CallandorCommented:
Check this FAQ from PNY:
http://www.pny.com/support/faqs/readfaq.asp?mainid=324&row=5&urlRef=%2Fsupport%2Ffaqs%2Freadtopic%2Easp%3FmodelID%3D18%26model%3DAttach%25C3%25A9

It says "Only Windows 98SE is supported. Windows 98 is not supported."
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
The drivers for this require 98 SECOND EDITION.   You're not doing anything wrong;  your system simply does not support this device.
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zephyr_hex (Megan)DeveloperCommented:
i concur... windows98 must be se for usb to work
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CaseybeaCommented:
To confirm the comments above--   Win98 had CRUDE (barely useable) USB support, and even then you had to add the functionality from the install CD.    USB in Win98 did not become "useable" until Win98SE - and even then, each USB device required its own drivers (as opposed to XP, which does a tremendous job at recognizing flash drives).

Since you don't have the install disc(s) *AND* you appear to have the 'wrong' version of WIn98--  you're out of luck.......
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I have a windows 98 SE install disk but when I try to upgrade I get the message
 "Your computer already has an operating system installed, which cannot be upgraded by this version of Setup. You need to obtain the Windows 98 Upgrade.

Message SU0168"

I tried to pull the drivers off the Win 98SE install disk but it didn't seem to work.

Since I already have the Win 98SE install disk, I don't want to have to pay for another. Is there any way to make this work?

ps: thanks for the rapid reply!
pps: Good link Callandor.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... your Windows 98SE CD is for a full install -- not an upgrade.   If you reformatted your hard drive and did a new install it would work fine -- but of course you'd lose everything on that hard drive in the process.    If that's not acceptable, another way to accomplish this would be to modify the partition structure of your hard drive to free up a small (e.g. 1GB) partition; and then install W98-SE to that partition.   You could then boot to W98SE and your flash drive would work fine -- and you could copy data from the other partition to it.
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CaseybeaCommented:
In my opinion, I'd go for replacing Win98 with Win98SE---   which (as garycase implied) means a FULL re-install of everything, and you have to make sure you save your documents and other important files somewhere else (second hard drive, or..?) before doing this.

Offhand, SE is going to be much more stable for you anyway.       Note- you will need a valid 98SE license key.......
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
reply to garycase: Do I need a special program to create a new partition or can I use fdisk to do that?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
You can't use fdisk unless you're willing to lose everything now on the disk.   If you want to keep what's on the disk, and simply install Win98SE on a separate partition, you'll need to use a more sophisticated partition manager.   The free demo download of Boot-It NG will work just fine for this (www.bootitng.com).   If you want to use it, download the demo, create a bootable floppy, and post back when you're ready.   Do NOT boot it yet.   Also, post the current specifics of your hard drive:  size, amount of free space, etc.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I'll check it out tomorrow. The PC i'm referring to is at work.

Man! I wish these windows had spellcheck! I'm all thumbs. :)
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Robert7777Commented:
i have a generic usb mass storage driver and it works well on both versions of win98. it can recognize any usb stick/digital camera/cardreader (like on XP!)
http://rapidshare.de/files/19057068/Win98usb.zip.html
(scroll down and click "free")
sory, but i don't remember the source of this file, but it works great for me!
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
to Robert7777.
I downloaded Win98usb.zip from the site you mentioned. when I go to install it says it will install Digital Camera Driver. Is that what makes the USB work?
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
to garycase.

I downloaded bootitng.zip and unzipped it. Do I use the bootitng.exe to create a bootable floppy or is there another method you want me to use?
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
to Robert7777

After installing Digital Camera Driver and re-booting, I plugged my USB flash drive in. A New Hardware Found window popped up and I pointed to the WinUSB folder. It appeared to have located the drivers because I didn't get any error message.
However, when I plug in my flash drive, the cursor turns to an hourglass and stays that way untill I unplug the drive. I've left it plugged in for as much as ten minutes and it stays as an hourglass.
 I don't think this is going to work for me.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Yes, you just run bootitng and follow the prompts.   Once you have a bootable floppy, post the details of your hard drive (as I noted before) and we'll get it resized, and another partition made for you to install Second Edition on.   Then you can boot to W98SE and your flash drive will work fine :-)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
to garycase:

I found my Windows 98SE original book with the code on it. I'm at home now so will hav e to wait 'til tomorrow.
Darn! I thought Robert7777 had the answer. It didn't work.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
"... I thought Robert7777 had the answer. It didn't work. " ==>  I'm not surprised.  I've yet to come across a functional USB flash drive handler for '98 original edition.   Although USB was supported in '95 OSR-2 and the original '98, the mass storage class drivers require some of the additional features of '98SE.   It would be possible to write a standalone program to read/write flash drives within the earlier OS's, but the demand for this is low -- and it would be "geeky" since it wouldn't integrate well with the OS.

Okay -- you've got the '98SE CD and the license key.   Tomorrow we'll get things working for you :-)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
way cool!
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
to garycase:

OK! I've created the bootable floppy disk. The hard drive on the PC I'm working has a 3 GB capacity with 1.61 GB free. It's really an old PC, bought in 1995.
I'm ready.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Wow!  ... that IS a small drive  (I have an even-smaller 1.6GB drive in my spares collection)

Here's the basic outline of what we'll do:

(1)  Resize the current partition to 2GB -- this will leave 1GB free.

(2)  Install Boot-It NG and set up a boot menu for your current Windows 98

(3)  Create a new partition with the free space, and add a boot menu item for Windows 98 SE

(4)  Install W98SE in the new partition.

Done.   Then when you boot the computer, you'll be able to choose either 1st or 2nd edition.   I suspect you'll rather quickly decide to simply move everything to SE and just get rid of the original install -- you can do that fairly easily as well.

To do #1:

Boot with the Boot-It floppy:  be SURE you press CANCEL at the first prompt;  then OK to go to Maintenance Mode.   Then select Partition Work.   You should see the single partition displayed in the center of the window, and since there's only one it will already be highlighted.   Simply click on ReSize (on the right side of the screen);  give it the new size (about 2GB); accept all the warnings (it will warn you that you can lose data -- not likely, but IF you were to lose power during this operation you would); and let it do the resize.

When it's done, close the Boot-It screen until you get to the main one -- then remove the floppy and click on ReBoot.   You should now be back into your normal Windows 98 desktop, but the drive will have less space.

Post back when you're at that point -- or if you have any questions about the exact steps ...
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Just the first part. How do I resize my current partition?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
When you're in the Boot-It Partition Work screen, with the current partition highlighted in the center of the screen, just click on RESIZE  (on the right-side of the display).   Then just select the new size (2GB) and let it do its thing :-)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I resized the first partition. Now I want to creat a new partion with the remaining space. In the Create - 1099 MB block window I have options at the bottom. Format is alreadt checked. the other 2 options are: "Multi-OS" and "allocate high". Do I want to check either or both?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Before you create the 2nd partition, I'd suggest you install Boot-It NG on the PC.   This will use a very small (8MB) partition of its own.   Or you can go ahead and create the 2nd partition, but be sure you don't use ALL of the remaining space (leave 8-10mb free).   The answer to your question, however, is you don't need to check either of those boxes.   You DID make the 2nd partition FAT-32, right??
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
FAT-32 yes.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Good.   Let me know if you have any questions about how to setup the boot menu in Boot-It.  It's not hard, but it is a bit "geeky."
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Should I check the box "Align for NTfs converion?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
No.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
So far so good. I now see the new partition as drive D. I'll install Win98SE into drive D. With multiple OS installed, how does Windows know which to open with?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Did you install Boot-It NG on the hard drive?

My plan is to use the Boot-It NG boot menu to select which Windows you boot into.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I see a bunch of bootit icons in my C:\ folder. One of them does not show a file extension. It's 632KB in size.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
When I rebooted I get a BootIt screen with a window in the middle. Buttons on window are Boot, Maintenance, and Direct Boot.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I'm not sure what you're seeing, but it's not likely a problem.

Answer these:

(1)  Did you CANCEL at the 1st prompt when you initially booted to the Boot-It floppy?  (remember I said "...  be SURE you press CANCEL at the first prompt ...").

(2)  Have you (to your knowledge) actually installed Boot-It on the hard drive?

(3)  Did you create any Boot Menu entries within Boot-It?    If so, what do you see when you first start to boot your computer now?

(4)  What is the VERY FIRST screen you see now if you boot with the Boot-It floppy?   (Boot with the floppy -- observe the very first screen -- and then remove the floppy and power off the machine)
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Okay, you posted what I needed to know while I was typing.   You have already installed Boot-It, and apparently you did so before you resized the partition.   Is that correct?

You've already answered #4 above - so you don't need to boot to the floppy.



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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... you've also answered #2 :-)
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
What is listed in the Window directly above the Boot, Maintenance, and Direct Boot buttons?
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Oops.

No to #1
No to #3
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I suspected as much :-)
Is anything listed above the Boot, Maintenance, and Direct Boot buttons? (as I asked above)

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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
When you get the Boot, Maintenance, and Direct Boot choices; do EXACTLY this:

(1)  Click on Maintenance

(2)  Click on Boot Edit

Tell me what you see.   (in my case I have to click Add to get the screen that lets you set up a boot entry ==> in your case you might already be at that screen, since you don't have any entries)

What you're going to do next is set up a "Windows 98 Original Edition" boot entry -- but tell me what you see first.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
After thinking about this a bit more, I think it's best if you get Boot-It installed with its own partition.   This is a more reliable technique.   It shouldn't make any difference - but it's easy to fix at this stage.

Before you do ANYTHING else, boot the system;  select the Maintenance button;  press the Partition Work button; and then post EXACTLY what you see in the middle of the screen (the current partition information).

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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I see Boot Menu - Default Menu  with one menu item listed as "Windows 95 OSR2. Boxes on the right are "Add", "Edit", "Delete", and "Help". Move up and Move down are grayed out.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... you're probably doing it already; but back out of the Boot Edit menu (Cancel); click on Partition Work; and tell me EXACTLY what the current partition info is.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Top partition is named "NO  NAME - 0 2000 MB
2nd partion is named "Partition 2" 1000 MB
I did create a third partition named "Partition 3"  98 MB
They are listed in that order.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Okay,  highlight the 3rd partition (the 98MB one) and DELETE it.

Then do the following:

(1)  From Boot-It's Maintenance screen, click on the Utilities menu (at the top) and select Uninstall.   Then just uninstall Boot-It and reboot the system.

(2)  Now boot to the Boot-It floppy disk again and let it install again (do NOT press Cancel).   I forget if it asks or just does it -- but if it asks if it's okay to install in its own partition, say Yes.

After Boot-It is installed again, go back to Partition Work and tell me the partition information again.

Then we'll continue with the Boot Menus ...
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I see:
#1 No Name 2000 MB FAT-32
#2 Partition 2-1 1000MB FAT-32
#3 ----------Partition 91 MB free space
#4 BootIt EMBRM Partition 8 MB BootIt EMBRM
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I resized Partion 2 to pick up the remaining free space. List now reads:
1. No Name-0 2000MB FAT-32
2. Partition 2 (got rid of the -1 after) 1091MB FAT-32
3. BootIt EMBRM 8MB BootIt EMBRM

that's all. I have to leave in 5 minutes and won't be back 'til Monday.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Looking perfect -- we'll pick up on Monday.

All that's left is to create two Boot Menu items named "Win98 Original" and "Win98 Second Edition", and configure the 2nd one to "hide" the original partition when it's booted.

Then there's a small trick you'll use in the boot process -- and you just need to install W98SE.

After that's done, we'll unhide the 1st partition and you'll be done :-)

I'm in-and-out Monday ==> send me a note when you're ready to continue ...
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I'm ready.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Okay, boot up and go to Boot-It's Maintenance Menu.

Go to Boot Edit.

Press Add.

In the Identity section type "Windows 98 Original Edition"

In the dropdown menu for Boot select your 2GB partition (the 1st partition)

We're not going to change the MBR, but notice the MBR display on the right side.   Boot-It will let you adjust what any OS "sees" in the MBR -- this is where you would do that.

Say OK.

Now back out to Boot-It's main screen and click Reboot.   This time you should have "Windows 98 Original Edition" as a boot menu item -- go ahead and boot to it to confirm all is well;  then reboot and go back to the Maintenance menu.   Let me know when you're there ...
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
For the next step I also need to know your current BIOS boot sequence -- the best one for what we need to do is Floppy, then CD, then Hard Drive.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Sorry for the delay. I didn't have the BootIt disk in the drive so it booted directly into Windows. I see the Windows 98 Original Edition listed and I'm booting to it now. Looks like everyting is normal.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Changed boot sequnce to 1. Floppy, 2. CD-ROM, 3. Hard Drive.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Okay, back to Maintenance Mode;  select Boot Edit; Add; and this time create an entry called "Windows 98 Second Edition".

So call it "Windows 98 Second Edition"; and in the Boot drop-down menu select the 2nd partition.

I'm not sure it's necessary, but just to be safe, I think we'll remove the original edition from the MBR for this boot entry.   After you've done the above (named it and set the boot partition), tell me EXACTLY what the MBR section shows (on the right side) -- but don't do anything with it yet.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Also, before I forget to tell you -- check the "BIOS Sequence" checkbox for this new ("Windows 98 Second Edition") entry.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Whoa !!  ... just noticed something you said ...

"... Sorry for the delay. I didn't have the BootIt disk in the drive so it booted directly into Windows ..."

==> You've got Boot-It installed on the hard drive;  you should NOT need the disk !!  Not sure what you did here; but as long as it's working okay now I won't worry about it.

If you boot the system now (without any Boot-It floppy), you should see a Boot-It menu => is that how it's working?
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Created Windows 98 Second Edition and set to boot to Partition 2. Then I'm not sure how I remove the original edition from the MBR for this boot entry. Right now the MBR shows from the top:
-----------> HD 0 <-----------
0) No Name-0
1) Partitiion 2
3) BootIt EMBRM
-----------> HD 1 <-----------
0)
1)
2)
3)
-----------> HD 2 <-----------
0)
1)
3)
-----------> HD 3 <-----------
0)
1)
3)
 and the same for HD 4 through HD 7
HD 0 is selected.
All of the buttons "Fill" through "Move Dn" are grayed out. Under "Retain" HD 0 is grayed out. HD 1 through 7 can be selected.

That's everything.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
First, be sure you checked the "BIOS Sequence" box as I just told you.

Next, highlight No Name-0 in the partition display and then click on Clear (to the right).

Next, highlight Partition 2 and click on Move Up.

The table should then look like this:

-----------> HD 0 <-----------
0) Partition 2
1)
3) BootIt EMBRM

Now click OK (twice I think) until you're back at Maintenance Mode.

Just to be sure you always see the boot menu, click on Settings and change the Timeout value to 0.  Don't make any other changes here -- just OK back to Maintenance Mode.

Now click on Resume.   You should now see the boot menu with two entries.

Put your Windows 98 Second Edition CD in the CD drive; and then select Windows 98 Second Edition on the boot menu.   It should boot to the setup CD.

If it doesn't boot to the CD, then tell me what it does ...

If it boots to the CD, you're ready to simply run the Windows 98SE install.   It should "see" the 1GB partition and offer to setup Windows there.   That's what you want -- just let it do its thing.

Send me a note and tell me when the installation is started ...

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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Re: Whoa,

Yes boot menu comes up without the disk in the drive.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
No. When I rebooted to the Windows 98 Original Edition i booted directly into windows without the BootIt screen. I just reinstalled BootIt to the hard drive, rebooted  without the disk in the floppy drive and the BootIt Boot menu comes up. I have Windows 98 Original Edition, windows 95 OSR2, and Wiondows 98 Second edition
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
sorry for the break. My keyboard goes buggy sometimes.
Options are Boot.. Maintenance..Direct Boot. I'll click into Maintence and await your instructions
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
If you told it to boot to '98 Original Edition that's what it should have done ==> I said to boot to "Windows 98 Second Edition" :-)

But just to be safe ...

(1)  Remove the '98SE CD from the CD drive

(2)  Turn off the PC.  Then turn it back on -- I just want to be sure it's booting as I expect.   You should see a boot menu and buttons to Boot, Maintenance, and Direct Boot.   Click on Maintenance.

(3)  Click on Boot Menu -- the entries here should match what you saw on your boot menu.   Since you have a 3rd entry ("windows 95 OSR2") I'm curious what it is.   Highlight it and click on Edit.   Tell me what is says in the Boot field and what the MBR data looks like (on the right).   I assume it was simply an automated entry generated when you installed Boot-It -- I just want to be sure.   You DO have Windows 98 on the machine -- and NOT Windows 95 -- correct ??

I'll wait for your reply ...
(Hurry ... I've got to leave in an hour)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Re: First, be sure you checked the "BIOS Sequence" box as I just told you.

Next, highlight No Name-0 in the partition display and then click on Clear (to the right).

i CHECKED THE BIOS sequence box.
I highlighted No Name -0 in the Partition display (under MBR Details?) but the "clear" button is grayed out but the "Hide" button is available
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... by the way, if you just "Refresh" this screen every minute or so it's faster than waiting for EE to send the e-mail notifications :-)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I've been using Refresh. :)
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Okay, I'm confused.  I thought you had the 2nd boot entry set up as I suggested before you tried it;  but apparently you weren't able to (since "Clear" didn't work).

Look at the Settings (on the Maintenance Mode page) and see if "Limit Primaries" is checked.   If it is, then uncheck it.

Then go back to Boot Edit;  highlight the Windows 98 Second Edition; Edit; and see if you can now Clear the entry as I suggested.   If not, just Hide it.

Post back with what the MBR display looks like for that entry after you're done.   Leave the Boot-It display at that point until I reply.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Info in Edit menu item windows OSR2, boot: No Name-0, HD 0, BIOS Sequence is unchecked. I'm hurrying!
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
and yes it is Windows 98, not Windows 95.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Unchecked "Limit Primaries". Am in Edit Menu for Windows 98 Second Edition. Highlighted 0) No Name-0. Can clear now. Just want to make sure I'm in the right place before I clear.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Yes, as I noted before, I want you to Clear that and Move Up the 2nd entry.   The MBR should look like this:

-----------> HD 0 <-----------
0) Partition 2
1)
3) BootIt EMBRM

Then be sure the "BIOS Sequence" box is checked; and then "OK" back to the Maintenance Mode menu.

Now put your Windows 98 Second Edition CD in the drive;

then click on Resume ==> and then select the "Windows 98 Second Edition" choice and click on Boot.

It should boot to the setup CD.    If it doesn't, then leave the CD in the drive and press Ctrl-Alt-Del and let it boot to the setup CD.   Note:  I don't remember if the Windows 98SE setup CD works the same way as subsequent OS installs -- but there may be a "Press any key to boot from CD" message when it gets control -- if so, press the space bar so it will continue from the CD.


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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Have Windows 98 SE in drive. Clicked on Resume, selected "Windows 98 Second Edition", clicked on Boot. Screen went black for 2 sec, then same boot menu screen came back on. Tried again, same result. Pressed Ctrl-Alt-Del, booted back to same Boot Menu. It's not going to the CD. Rebooting via Ctrl-Alt-Del again now
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
OK! This time have 1. Boot from Hard Disk, 2. Boot from CD-ROM options. Booting fro CD-ROM
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... Ok, be CAREFUL.   Let me know what the Windows 98SE setup shows for where it's going to install Windows !!   (It SHOULD "see" a 1GB partition and offer to install it there)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
am in Windows 98 setup. Can probably take it from here. Have a good day. Will wait til installation is complete before closing topic. Thanks so much for your help!
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Good -- only one thing to watch for here.

After Windows 98SE gets setup, it will reboot.  It MAY rewrite the MBR and "mess up" Boot-It !!

If it does, it will just reboot directly to itself and finish the setup => just let it do so.   If it doesn't "mess up" Boot-It, you'll be back at the Boot-It screen;  in that case, just select Windows 98 Second Edition again ...

IF the Boot-It menu gets messed up, all you have to do (when '98SE is done installing) is just boot from the Boot-It floppy.   It will offer to fix the installation -- and you'll be in business.

You should then have a nice boot menu that lets you boot to either the original '98 or Second Edition.

In 2nd edition, go to My Computer, point to the C: drive, right-click and Rename it -- you do NOT want two partitions with the same name.

Then boot to Boot-It, go to Boot Edit, highlight the 2nd edition, and in the MBR section point to a blank area (for example, #1 in the example below) and select Fill, and add the other partition.   This will let '98SE "see" your other installation -- so you can copy files to/from it.   If you the boot to '98SE and install a USB flash driver, you can now plug in your USB flash drive and copy anything to/from it that you need to :-)

0) Partition 2
1)
3) BootIt EMBRM

You can do a LOT more with Boot-It, but I think you get the general idea.

Post back when you've got it all working nicely :-)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I didn't take note of what  the partition size was seen. It asked to install to C:\Windows and that's where it is installing. should I break the install? And if so, how do I stop it?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... one "clean up" item => you should go to Boot Edit and delete the "windows 95 OSR2" entry.   It's just booting to the same place as "Windows 98 Original Edition" -- and the label's wrong anyway.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
No, it's almost certainly installing correctly ==> and if for some strange reason it's not it's too late anyway !!  (but as long as you did as I told you above there's really no doubt it's okay)

I've got to get ready to leave ... but will be around until about 2:00 (Central time) -- so I'll check back before I leave.   The key here is when '98 does its reboot.   After that you're home free :-)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
In last phase of installation. 12 minutes (Microsoft time) remaining.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
When it rebooted I had two options
1. Boot from Hard disk
2. Boot from CD

I chose #1. DOS screen said Unable to find directory or something to that effect.
I rebooted and am re-installing.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I wouldn't have re-installed.   Next time (a) remove the CD;  (b)  boot and see if it boots;  if not, boot to the Boot-It floppy and let it "fix" the Boot-It installation; and then (c)  boot to "Windows 98 Second Edition"
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... I'm hopeful the re-install didn't cause '98SE to write over the BootIt EMBRM partition !!   If it does, all the information about the other partition is lost !!!  (don't panic -- that's very unlikely;  but it IS a possibility)   Boot-It works very well, but installing older OS's can be a bit of a pain, because they rewrite the MBR almost "at will" -- which can have unintended side-effects.   I've got one system with 14 different items on the boot menu (!!), and didn't lose anything while installing all of them;  but did have to frequently reboot with the floppy to "fix" the BootIt installation.   I did, however, have a 2nd hard drive in the system and IMAGED each installation after it was done -- perhaps it was because I had such good backups that I didn't have a problem :-)   (you never need backups when you have them -- only when you don't !!)

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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... friend I was going to go help with computer just called and asked if he could bring the system over here (I have a nicer setup for working on them) ==> so I won't be leaving; but I will be a bit busy after he gets here.   But I'll be able to respond anytime my computer "beeps" with an e-mail :-)

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isenbergAuthor Commented:
It's going to be a while. I tried to abort the install which had negatiive effects. Re-activted BootIt and am re-installing Win98SE.  When it re-starts, do I want to boot from hard drive or CD?
Going to lunch. Back in 30...
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
re: I'm hopeful the re-install didn't cause '98SE to write over the BootIt EMBRM partition !!   If it does, all the information about the other partition is lost !

I can boot to the Win98SE but when I try to boot to the Original Edition it hangs up in the Microsoft windows 98 Startup Menu screen.
OK, I guesss it just took a while. Now have Win98OE desktop open and it shows all my usual icons. Programs open fine.
Now, you said there is a way for Win98SE to "see" the other installation. I think I correctly added No Name-0 to Win98SE, but where do I look for it? It doesn't show up in My Computer.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Okay, confirm the following ...

(1)  If you boot the system, you see a boot menu with two (or possibly 3 if you didn't delete the old "windows95 OSR2" entry) entries.

(2)  You can select either entry and it boots fine

... assuming #1 and #2 are both correct; do this:

Boot to the Maintenance Menu;  click on Boot Edit;  and for EACH of the two entries ("Windows 98 Original Edition" and "Windows 98 Second Edition")  post the current MBR details here.

In addition, boot to each of the two systems, and post what "My Computer" shows for drives.

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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... when I say to post what "My Computer" shows for drive, post all the details:

Drive letter;  name;  and current size & free space (right-click, Properties)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
from initial Boot Menu, only OE boots normally (from the Boot button). I have to select Direct Boot to boot into SE.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
In maintenance, MBR details for OE are:
------> HD 0 <------
0) No Name-0
1) Partition 2
2) BootIt EMBRM
3) no entry

------> HD 1-7 <-------
all blank

In SE, MBR details are:
------> HD 0 <------
0) Partition 2
1) No Name-0
2) BootIt EMBRM
3) no entry

------> HD 1-7 <------
all blank

In OE, My Computer show C:\  no label, FAT32, 1.4 GB used, 560 MB free, capacity 1.94 GB, then D:\ FAT32, 396 MB used, 692 MB free, capacity 1.06 GB

In SE, My Computer shows only C:\ , no label, FAT32, used  396 MB, free 692 MB.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Hmmm ... something got modified here

Boot to the boot menu;  click on Direct Boot;  and post what you see here (be sure to include exactly what it says in the Active, Swap, and Hide columns as well as the name and partition info.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Direct Boot for OE
top line:
Floppy Drive: nothing in Active, n/a in Swap & HIde
2nd line:
HD0 Partition: nothing in active, Auto in Swap & Hide, name= No Name-0,  HD0 Partition 2000 MB FAT-32
3rd line:
Yes in Active, Auto in Swap & Hide, name= Partition 2, HD0 Partition-0, 1091 MB FAT-32
Last line:
nothing in Active, n/a in Swap & Hide, name=Next BIOS Device.

Direct Boot for SE
identical to OE above
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Okay, make the change below ("MOVE THIS UP...") in the Boot Edit menu for SE:
Then do a Resume and select the Second Edition boot item and see if all is okay.


In maintenance, MBR details for OE are:
------> HD 0 <------
0) No Name-0
1) Partition 2
2) BootIt EMBRM
3) no entry

In SE, MBR details are:
------> HD 0 <------
0) Partition 2
1) No Name-0           ===>  MOVE THIS UP so the partition details look just like OE
2) BootIt EMBRM
3) no entry
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Still comes back to the Boot Menu when I press Boot. Tried 5 times, same result. Screen goes black for 3-4 sec, then back to the Boot menu.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Whoa !!   Just noticed that BOTH of your drive C's show "no label"

You must have missed my post "... In 2nd edition, go to My Computer, point to the C: drive, right-click and Rename it -- you do NOT want two partitions with the same name."

This can cause some real problems.   Boot to either OS and do what I said -- pick any name you want (e.g. "W98SE" or "W98OE) would be fine.

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isenbergAuthor Commented:
If I took 1) No Name-0 out of HD0 and filled it in HD1, Line 0)w would that let me "see" the contents of No Name0 when I'm in SE?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
You can't do that -- HD1 is your 2nd hard drive (physically separate).   You don't have a 2nd hard drive :-)

I think this issue is somehow related to having multiple partitions with the same name (blanks).

Since W98 OE is "seeing" both partitions okay; do this:

(1)  Boot to W98 OE

(2)  In My Computer, RENAME the C: drive to "W98OE"  (to do this you right-click on the drive; then select Properties; and then type the name where it says "Label")

(3)  Now label the D: drive to "W98SE"

Now restart and go to Maintenance Mode.   Go to Boot Edit and select the SE boot.  Be sure the MBR looks like I suggested, and that the correct partition is set in the Boot setting.

Then reboot and see if SE will boot.   If not, something got messed up in the multiple installs.   The best way to fix that is to (a)  delete the SE partition;  (b)  recreate and format it;  (c)  reinstall SE  (but this time there won't be multiple partitions with the same name).

But confirm everything looks good first ==> post the details for the SE boot menu entry.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... going out shortly so I'll gone.   I'm also not available most of tomorrow -- but I think you understand basically what you need to do.

IF you need to reinstall W98SE, leave the partition structure as it is (identical to OE), but HIDE the OE partition.   That MAY have "confused" the SE install (but I think it was more likely the identically named partitions).    Alternatively, you could NOT hide the partition -- but if you do this, be sure that when you install SE you use a DIFFERENT directory than Windows ==> e.g. Win98SE would be a good choice.    The full install MAY still refuse to install, since there's a Windows OS installed already, but it's on a "different" drive, so it should allow it.

Since there are no longer any identically named partitions, I think all will be fine.   I'll check back late tonight when I get back (5 hrs or so) and if you've had any questions will respond to them.  Same thing tomorrow -- I'll check in-and-out as I can.   Hopefully you understand enough at this point to finish up.  
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
In Maintenance Mode, Boot Edit, SE, MBR for HD0 is:
 0) Partition 2
1) No Name-0
2) BootIt EMBRM

Boot set to Partition 2

still comes back to the Boot Menu
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
NO !!  I said to reorder it !!   It should be:

0) No Name-0
1) Partittion 2
2) BootIt EMBRM

Just highlight Partition 2 and click on "Move Up"
(or highlight NoName-0 and click on "Move Down")


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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Did you reorder it and try it?
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
printed everything off and restarted from the beginning following your instructions. Installing W98SE into Second Edition partition now.
After it rebooted to the CD-ROM, I now get a blue screen that says "Microsoft Windows 98 setup
Your computer already has an operating system installed on it. This version of setup is designed for computers that do not yet have an operating system. It is recommended that you exit, reboot from your hard disk, and run Setup. If you continue with Setup, your current CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT filles will be replaced by basic versions of those files."
Options are: "Exit Setup (recommended). and Continue Setup and replace your current operating system".
This doesn't seem right...
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
and I am installing into the Win98SE partition. I checked that when BootIt menu came up.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
You have to "hide" the other partition so it won't see the already-installed OS.

Do this:  Boot to Win98 OE -- which can "see" both of the partitions.   Use that to format the other (1GB) partition -- now it won't have anything on it.

Then do the install for SE -- but be sure to "hide" the partition that contains OE  (otherwise it will complain about an OS already being installed).

If that doesn't work (there may be some residual "pieces" on the drive), the use Boot-It to DELETE the 1GB partition; then re-create it and format it.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I hide in the MBR section, right? Do I want to be in Boot Edit in OE or SE?
Starting over...
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Yes ... in the SE boot edit you hide the OE partition (the "No Name-0" partition).
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Booted to OE. Only see the C:\ drive (labeled W98OE) in My Computer. I must have missed something. The BootIt boot menu shows both OE and SE. I think I see what I missed. The MBR in OE only showed Partitoon 1 (I renamed it) so I "filled" the 2nd position with Partition 2. MBR order in OE is:
1) Partition 1
2) Partition 2
3) BootIt EMBMR.

Reboooted to OE and now see the new drive. Renamed as W98SE and am formatting. Full format, do I want to copy system files?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
NO !!  If you copy the system files then the SE install will complain that you already have an OS on the drive !!
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Thanks! Am formatting now.
Wow! That was fast! Should I run Thorough Scandisk like it recommends?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
No particular reason to Scandisk ...
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
checked reorder status in SE MBR DEtails and reads:
0) Hide Partition 1
1) Partition 2
2) BootIt EMBRM.

Will try to re-install SE now. Talk to you tomorrow if you're around. :)
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
The MBR looks right.

Be sure the Boot partition for the SE boot entry (in Boot Edit) is set to Partition 2.

Then you should be ready to do the SE install ...


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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... I'll be in-and-out tomorrow.   Have to get some work done on my car; and we're going out in the late afternoon/evening.   Mid-morning is a good time to "catch" me ...
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
There must be something fundamentally wrong.
1) I can't boot into W98SE from the BootIt Boot Menu selecting "Boot". I have to go via "Direct Boot".
2) Once I have done above, installing SE with the W98SE disk in the drive, I repeatedly get the message as below:
"Microsoft Windows 98 setup
Your computer already has an operating system installed on it. This version of setup is designed for computers that do not yet have an operating system. It is recommended that you exit, reboot from your hard disk, and run Setup. If you continue with Setup, your current CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT filles will be replaced by basic versions of those files." This happens when I try to let it install as C:\Windows (in Partition 2). It doesn't let me install indirectly into D:\Windows even though I made a Windows folder on the D:\ drive before trying to install. Says folder cannot be created.
3) I have repeatedly formatted the D:\ (w98SE) drive while in win98OE to clear everything out.
4) Now, when I select W98SE in Boot Menu, try to boot via Direct Boot with the SE install disk in the CD drive, it says invalid system disk, remove disk and press any key.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I have to leave for the day. Hope we can resolve this :)
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Sure wish I had the PC here!

All I can do is give you some guidelines -- this is a SIMPLE issue, but it can seem complex; especially when there's a 10-15 minute delay for things that would take a couple of seconds if I was doing it here !!

... First:  the "OS already installed" means you haven't cleared out the old partition.  Forget formatting it -- DELETE the partition (from Boot-IT) and then recreate (& format) it from Boot-It.   (be SURE you're deleting the correct partition -- if you delete your W98OE partition all is lost !!)

... Second, instead of "hiding" the OE partition while trying a SE install, "Clear" it from the MBR.   It's possible that the SE install "sees" the OS in the hidden partition and that's why it's not working.   If you clear it out of the MBR then the install CD won't have any way to "see" it.

... The "invalid system disk" message when you try a direct boot most likely simply means you've tried to boot to a partition that doesn not have an OS on it (the "SE" partition that you were not able to successfully install to)

... making a "Windows" folder on the drive will DEFINITELY cause the installation to fail;  this is a clear sign that there was a previous OS on the drive !!

So ...  to summarize:

Be CAREFUL that you don't alter your W98OE setup.   Boot to Boot-It and DELETE the partition you've been trying to install SE to.   Then recreate it; and format it (from Boot-It).   Now set your Win98SE Boot Menu so the Boot item is the new partition; and the MBR does NOT have the Win98OE partition in it (clear it out).   Be sure you set the one-time option in the Boot Edit menu for SE to use the BIOS defaults; and then do a Resume and boot to the SE entry (with the CD in the drive).   As before, if that doesn't work, just restart the machine and let it boot to the CD.   Note:  When you attempt to boot to the SE entry, that causes the MBR to be setup as you've defined it in the Boot Edit menu.   So even if it fails, when you reboot the system, the MBR is how you want it -- and the OE partition will NOT be visible to the SE install.

This sounds complex ... but conceptually it's really pretty simple.   I'm not sure just what steps you're doing wrong here -- but you'll get it with a bit of persistence :-)


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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Very clear instructions. I'll follow them to the letter & see what goes, Incidentally, if you haven't noticed already I increased the points for this question. Maybe not enough for all the attention you've given but I'll ponder that some more. I'm home & today's my birthday so I got to leave at noon. It's been a great day! Had an oyster shooter with lunch.
PS: I printed out this question and it took 28 pages! I'm embarrassed!
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
28 pages !!   Well ... this has been a rather long thread.   Hadn't noticed the bump in points, but I appreciate it, and any further bumps you might choose to do :-)  :-)

Happy Birthday ... and good luck tomorrow with the reinstall !!
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Have it mostly done but hung up on one of your comments: "Be sure you set the one-time option in the Boot Edit menu for SE to use the BIOS defaults" In the Boot Edit menu for SE, the one-time option area is grayed-out except for the box "Swap". The other options are "floppy drive", "Next BIOS Device", and "BIOS Sequence" and they are all grayed-out.

I cleared Partition 1. Should I move Partition 2 up or is it OK where it is?
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
and I did check the BIOS Sequence box right below the Sound window.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
holding pending your reply to my 9:12 AM entry.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Sorry for the long time in responding -- was gone all day and just now checking my e-mail.   The answer is I'm not sure !!   I guess Boot-It only provides the one-time options when you're creating a new boot entry.   I'm not sure what checking the BIOS sequence will do as a permanent selection (I suspect it will do just that - follow the BIOS boot sequence whenever you select this option; which may not be what you want).

Since the one-time option's not available; I'd not worry about it.   Just be sure it's set up the way you want (and I think you can safely leave Partition 2 where it is); and then select that boot item.   The boot will fail (it will try to boot to the partition, but since nothing's on it you'll get a "non-system disk" message;   but then when you Ctrl-Alt-Del to boot again, the CD should boot and setup should then install W98SE on that partition.

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isenbergAuthor Commented:
OK! Unchecking BIOS Sequence option in SE Edit Menu Item screen and clicking OK After unchecking BIOS Sequence box, all one-time options became available.  Resume--> Selected SE, Boot, got message "no operating system installed, if you are about to install a new OS then insert the installation diskette into drive A: , Press any key to run BIOS Bootstrap loader... Ctrl/Alt/Del brings me back to BootIt Boot Menu, selected SE again, direct Boot, now booting to CD-ROM. Hope it works this time!

I had an idea...TV manufacturers putting 1 or 2 USB ports on the back of the TV so you could put in a wireless antenna and capture the signal from a dish. Eliminates need for wiring and you could move your TV to any room. Just a thought.  :)
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Almost finished install, 2nd reboot,now I'm getting:
"Windows protection error. You need to restart your computer.

C:\windows\system\vmm32.vxd: Missing/unable to load."
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Do I want to restart with/without the SE CD in the drive?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Probably without.   I'm not sure why you're having so much of a problem with a relatively simple install.  Is this an original W98SE CD?

... I think I'll drag out an old system; stick Boot-It on it; and install W98SE just for grins ...
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Yes it's an original out of the box CD. I can't seem to understand why it's giving me such problems. I'll be back at the office at 8:00 AM PDT and try to finish the install. It really is close to being done.
What was the deal with the missing file? From the file extension it looks like a display driver.

See you tomorrow!
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... hopefully it was a "fluke" ==> try booting again tomorrow and see if it works.  Win98 (both OE & SE) did have those issues;  a reboot would often "cure" them.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... I didn't have a chance to do a '98SE install, but I did look at the system I use for mutliple OS boots (14 different boot options); and noted that in most cases (not all -- but all 9x OS's) I have the MBR set so the booting partition is in the first slot.   You might try setting your '98SE boot entry like that (I don't think you'll have to reinstall to do that;  and if it doesn't work you can always change it back -- the power of Boot-It is cool once you get used to it !!)

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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
... one other thought:  When you do the installation and '98 causes your Boot-It installation to be deactivated, you ARE selecting "Reactivate Bootit NG" when you boot from the floppy -- right??   I don't even recall what other options you have at that point; but you don't want to "reinstall" it.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Have been selecting "reactivate". I'm in the final "Setting up hardware and finalizing settings". 7 minutes to go. I'm now getting a pop-up window that reads "Java Package Manager...unable to install Java packages from C:\Windows\Java\classes\xmldso4.cab. Unknown HRESULT:(8-00b01bh"
 I don't have the CD in the drive.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I got several more messages similar to the one just mentioned, all relating to Java. I put the CD in the drive and the error messages stopped. Final reboot (is now booting properly from BootIt menu) and am now getting Window: Copying Files: "the file 'choosusr.dll' on Windows 98 Second Edition CD-ROM cannot be found. Setup could not find a file on the specified path. If the path appears below, make sure it is correct. Click OK to try copying again" Path displayed is C:\Windows\System\Precopy. I tried substituting E: and F: for the C: and still get the same message.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Also tried D: For some reason it's not seeing the .dll files on the disk or in C:\Windows.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
You should change the page to x:\Win98\   (where x is your CDROM's drive letter)

If it's booting through the Boot-It menu now then all is fundamentally well ... the remaining details should be easy to resolve.

Is this now true:   If you turn on the PC, you get a menu with "Windows 98 OE" and "Windows 98 SE" options; and you can select either one and it will boot okay.

If so, then what drives do you see in My Computer for OE ??

.... same question for SE ??

If you fill one of the empty MBR slots for the SE boot item (in Boot Edit) with the other partition (the one containing OE), do you then "see" that drive okay when you boot to SE?

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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
"page" should have been "path" in my first line ...
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Tried booting into SE from the Boot Menu, First the Windows splash screen, then getting a DOS screen with a lot of text, basically telling that a device file vredir.vxd cannot be found. Pressing a key to continue I get  the same message but for dfs.vxd. Pressing a key to continue I get Windows Networking window "unable to load the dynamic link library: msnp32.dll  The system cannot find the file specified. clicking OK gives me my desktop looking OK but I know that there are some pieces missing.  Rebooted 2 more times, same result. My Computer contains: Floppy A:, Partition 2 (C), (D) CD-ROM Drive, Printers, Control Panel, Dial-up Networking, Scheduled Tasks, and Web Folders.
OE opens normally. My Computer contains the same as in SE, except the C:\ drive is labeled W98oe. Partition 2 not showing.
In Boot Edit for SE, filled empty space with Partition 1, rebooted to SE and now see W98oe in My Computer as my D:\ drive.
I'm guessing that the next step involves copying the contents of W98oe into Partition 1, then removing W98oe and then resizing Partition 2. Want to resolve these vxd issues too. Sorry for the long delay.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Okay ... the computer's booting fine to both systems -- the issues with the 98SE install have nothing to do with the partitioning, etc. ==> you'd have almost certainly had those even if you were installing to a blank hard drive on this PC.   These are probably related to (a) driver issues (have you looked in Device Manager to see how many "unknown" devices you have in SE ??);  (b)  install issues caused by failing to "point" it to the correct directory (x:\Win98);  or (c)  startup issues -- something is trying to start up and requires the .dll's that you're seeing the messages about.

In any event, you can resolve those without any modification to the Boot-It menus or the partition structure.

What I'd do next is install a USB flash drive driver to the SE system and confirm you can see your flash drive okay.   You then have the ability to do what you originally asked:  copy stuff from the PC to a flash drive !!

You COULD just use OE; and when you want to use a flash drive boot to SE to do the copies.   But what I would do is:  (a)  resolve your 98SE issues so it boots cleanly (with NO unknown devices showing in Device Manager);  (b)  install any programs you use in SE;  and then (incrementally if you need to because of limited space)  copy stuff from OE to SE (simple, since SE sees the OE drive), and then resize the partiions -- copy some more -- etc.   Note you may have to do some "sliding" in-between resizing to keep everything working smoothly.   Eventual goal:  delete the OE partition and just use SE :-)

Wow !!   ... a lot of work for a low-point question :-)  :-)   But glad all is working well; and I'm confident you can finish up yourself !!  (but if you need more help, just keep asking)    You might want to add a question about the missing .dll's in the '98 section if you don't get that cleared up soon.


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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Went into Device Manager and installedd drivers for the 2 unknown devices. Rebooted. Opened SE (still shows the .vxd issues) and plugged in my flash drive. I had also previously installed the correct drivers for my flash drive. Incidentally, it's a PNY Attache 1 GB. I downloaded  an install program called P-11 from the PNY web page. P-11 creates a folder called U-Storage Win98 Driver. It contains a subfolder: Drivers and an .exe called AdvDrvIns.exe and desktop.ini and Settings.dll. The Drivers folder contains another folder: Win98. Win98 contains (this is starting to sound like "the ankle bone is connected to the leg bone" :)  ) Fastin98.exe, USTORAGE.inf, USTORAGE.pdr, and USTORAGE.sys. I have tried to run the AdvDrvIns.exe and the FastIn.exe but they don't appear to do anything. No, I take that back. If I click on FastIn.exe then go back up and click on AdvDrvIns.exe it runs a quick little install program. However, when I plug in my flash drive, my keyboard doesn't respond and my mouse cursor moves but nothing happens when I click. As soon as I unplug the flash drive, an icon called F: Removeable drive appears for a split second then disappears.
I'm sure the re-install drivers is looking for the .inf file but it's not finding it.
I rebooted into SE and plugged in the flash drive. The cursor turned to an hourglass and stayed that way until I unplugged the drive.

I'll keep trying some things but you've certainly been a great help so I'll close this with much thanks!
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
vredir.vxd should be in Windows\System\

dfs.vxd should be in Windows\System\

msnp32.dll should be in Windows\System\

These are undoubtedly on the Windows 98SE CD in the Win98 directory -- but are "inside" one of the .CAB files, so aren't so easy to locate.   I'm sure this is a result of you not knowing to "point" the installer to x:\Win98 when it was looking for certain files.

So ... I looked :-)

vredir.vxd is in Net9.cab

dfs.vxd is in Net9.cab

msnp32.dll is in Net7.cab

You can extract these with extract.exe, which is on the Win98SE CD.

Example:  Open a command prompt.   Navigate to the x:\Win98 folder on your CD.

Now just type:

extract net9.cab vredir.vxd /L c:\windows\system

extract net9.cab dfs.vxd /L c:\windows\system

extract net7.cab msnp32.dll /L c:\windows\system


Not sure about your PNY flash drive; but it's likely all you have to do (with the flash drive NOT connected) is point to USTORAGE.inf, right-click, and select Install.   Then reboot.   Then plug in the flash drive and WAIT -- see if it installs okay.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Windows OE and SE now booting perfectly from BootIt menu. No error messages on either. Did not need to extract because I did  a complete re-install of SE, this time removing the CD at the appropriate times & inserting only when it asked for it.
I tried a different brand of flash drive and the PNY driver wouldn't recognize it but I installed a generic set of drivers and I can now see the removeable drive in My Computer.  Case closed and many thanks!
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
You're welcome.   Do you have the MBR's set so each OS can "see" the other's "drive" ??
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Yes, both OSA can "see" each other. I guess I was premature in saying "case closed" . I could see the removable disk icon in My Computer but when I clicked on it to open got error message. Would not open. Uninstalled all USB mass storage drivers and tried again. Now can't see it at all. Trying again.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Obviously, you need to be sure you're in Second Edition when you're trying to install the USB drivers ==> they for sure won't work in '98 Original Edition :-)

I've used my Sandisk flash drives (128mb through 2GB) on MANY  '98SE systems and never had a problem.   Don't know why PNY's drivers won't work -- any chance you can try a Sandisk flash drive?

Note also that PNY has MANY different drivers for '98SE, depending on the exact flash drive you have.  Be SURE you're using the correct drivers for your drive -- based on the downloads here (note there's more than one page of possibilities):
http://www.pny.com/support/drivers/?prod=attache
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
It appears that I used the wrong one. I didn't see the 128-4GB USB file. I'v downloaded it and will install.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
I think the correct driver file for the PNY 1 GB flash drive is called WIN98SE Driver Rev10.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
There's a note on that driver that indicates "USB 2.0 only" ==> it's unlikely your machine has USB v2.0 ports, but it won't hurt to try the driver.    If you can't find a driver that works, you may need to add a PCI USB v2 card (less than $10) to use your flash drive.
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isenbergAuthor Commented:
Sorry, keyboard went buggy again. the previously mentioned downlaod is a .zip file and when expanded contains three files:

musb6E.inf,
Pu20disk.pdr
Pu20sysd.sys.

musb6E.inf is only found in my C:\Download where I put it. Pu20disk.pdr is also found there as well as in C:\Windows\System\Iosubsys. Pu20sysd.sys is found in C:\Download and also in C:\Windows\System32\Drivers. I can only access Add\Remove Hardware when the flash drive is unplugged. Once I'm in the window, I can click on buttons and it responds. I think I mentioned that when I plug in the flash drive the cursor goes to hourglass and stays that way. In Add\Remove hardware I plug in the flash drive and press "next". It searches for PnP hardware but doesn't find any. If I let Windows search for non PnP hardware it does not detect any new devices. Manually installing for Storage Device I have three options:
1394/USB CD-ROM,
1394/USB Disk
1394/USB OPtical Disk

Selecting the second option, 1394/USB Disk and clicking Have Disk, I browse to C:\download|Win98SE Driver Rev 10\Win98SE Driver Rev 10,and find musb6E.inf. (Add New Hardware is expecting a .inf file). clicking OK the OK, I get message "The specified location does not contain information about your hardware". :(

Manually installing for Hard Disk Controller I find PNY listed and two options:
USB Product
USB Product Driver

Selecting USB Product, "Have disk" and going back to the C:\Windows\Win98SE etc. folder I choose musb6.inf (again windows is looking for a .inf file), click OK, then OK, it appears to install, then asks me to re-start. I press OK, and the PC locks up. Can only rstart by pressing Ctrl/Alt/Del twice. Booting back into Win98SE, plugging in flash drive & get hourglass again. The mouse cursor moves but clicking on anything gets no respone. Keyboard also not responsive. UNplugged flash drive, went into Add/Remove hardware, plugged flash drive in and pressed next. Now Mass Storage Driver is seen as PnP device. The window says "Windows found and installed the following PnP device. Click "next", with button "Yes I am finished installing devices", get window "Windows has finished installing the software neccessary to support your new hardware. Click "Finish", cursor goes back to hourglass. Unplug flash drive, cursor back to normal and clicks and keyboard work.
I really think I've tried everything so will just have to live with it.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Like I noted, the driver says it's only for USB v2

Just buy a USB v2 card and it should work fine ==> here's one for $7.99 with an $8.00 rebate :-)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815106007


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