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SBS DHCP Server on a network with existing DHCP

Posted on 2006-04-27
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Last Modified: 2011-04-14
I'm about to replace an Windows 2003 Standard server with an SBS 2003.
Those servers has difference names and difference domains.
The new server will (are) holding the DHCP server. Also DNS and all those things an SBS server will do..
The new server isn't finished configured and will not be taken in use by any clients YET (except me and test users).

Question:
Can I connect this new server to the main network (with the windows 2003 standard PDC), and let all computers use this new server as DHCP? And deactivate  the DHCP at the server who's being replaced? As i understood, there can't be two DHCP servers on same network (they will also use same ip-adresses in scope so..).  Is there any other problems who can ocurr? Like with the DNS. They even using difference internet connections by this time.
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Question by:dingir
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Rant32 earned 1000 total points
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Theoretically, you *can* have multiple DHCP servers on the same network as long as the address range is unique, however, Small Business Server explicitly shuts down its DHCP server service if it detects another DHCP. That's a restriction of SBS, not of DHCP.

Now we have that out of the way: Yes, you can replace the DHCP server with your 2003 SBS, but you need to make sure that the new DHCP scope still points to the DNS server they are using now.

Just use the same scope configuration (address range, subnet mask, router, DNS server, DNS domain name, also don't forget address reservations and exclusions!). Then you're fine. Then when you're ready to switch to SBS, change the scope options to match the new environment.
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by:dhoustonie
dhoustonie earned 600 total points
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In my opinion your best choice is to continue to use the SBS DHCP as this is still in your production network.
You may run into difficlties with using the Windows 2003 dhcp because it is notauthorized by the SBS domain to give out IP addresses or to access the Active Directory of the SBS Domain. so you may have conflicts with you this.

What are you actually trying to do with your network?
Why do you need the two domains?

If I can get these answered we maybe able to give you an alternative scenario that will give you what you need.

Hope this help,

David Houston

www.sbsireland.com
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by:dingir
ID: 16559868
Rant32: Sounds perfect! Exactly as i want and thought. Nice to point out changing the dhcp-options to the existing server. This is the answer.


dhoustonie
Thanks! The SBS is the new server who will replace the Standard server. I'm not really sure what we need to domains for, but we now have it - and may have use of it! So you tell us :-). We bought the old (Windows Standard 2003) server, on some stupid idea, with a single SATA-disc for two years ago. Of course we need to replace with a raid, before that disc will crash.  We also need to buy Microsoft Exchange and Microsoft SQL Server. The cheapest way, and less disturbance, to do this was to buy a new SBS Premium as OEM together with new hardware.

I'm about to phasing in this new server in the network and attach the clients to it. Then disconnecting the old server, inserting a RAID, reinstalling it and make it an DC under the SBS domain. You have any ideas of how to split the functions of those servers? This is of course an another question..
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by:Rant32
ID: 16560053
Maybe consider using it as a Terminal Server? This is often a very useful function of a second server on a small network, if you have remote users who need access to applications.

If you have non-OEM Office cals (SA, OLP) then there's no need to buy extra licenses and this will make a great remote workplace.

Other ideas or stuff to off-load to this server:
- WSUS
- E-mail frontend
- Intranet webserver
- Print server
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by:dhoustonie
ID: 16560464
When did you get the new sbs server? Was it after March 1st? If so you will be entitled to upgrade free of charge to the new version coming out of SBS called SBS 2003 R2, which will include WSUS and Sql 2005 Workgroup Edition.

As to movingg roles from the server, by dcpromo ing the server you will reduce some of the domain controller burden, and as Rant32 says you can move the Print server off of it to the backup server.

Again agreeing with Rant, by getting the terminal server cals you can give yourself the benefits of tight integration with the remote Web Workspace and give access to local resources to anyone that is offsite. Terminal server does not require raid or that level of redundency as all user files are saved to your existing server. Just becareful of licencing.

David
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16566819
What you want to do is no problem... but first you need to change the domain on the old server to match the domain of your SBS.  

Domain name change:  http://www.microsoft.com/technet/downloads/winsrvr/domainrename.mspx

Adding SBS to existing Domain:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/884453

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:dingir
ID: 16572094
At this moment I run the new server as DHCP on the network, under difference domainnames. Everything seems to work perfectly, except that I can't reach a client through Remote Desktop from home (VPN), as I could before. And that the new servers domainname doesn't appear in the clients domainlist, but there no trust between those domain neither :-).

Rant32:
It's a nice idea! I also heard that SBS only have terminal server in administrative mode. Which not that good because application mode is what we need. WSUS also! Is there some way to failover SQL / access databases? If one server fails, the other server taking over? Is clustering the only way? Is there any possible benefits to make, regarding permission to files? I haven't use DFS yet but will look at it on this SBS. I think I missed something really nice there. I also think it's an nice idea to use the second server as licensing server.

dhoustonie:
Nice. Free upgrade, like those are impossible to recieve! I bought the server two weeks ago, so yes! It's after 1st march. At least if Dell doesn't bought the preinstalled licens before 1st march. When are this upgrade able? Is it now in days, weeks? Or as in some month?

My question of this thread is answered and I will soon close it, asking new questions later on :-)
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by:Rant32
ID: 16572199
<< I can't reach a client through Remote Desktop from home (VPN) >>
If you're using Windows 2003 Routing & Remote Access, either configure your old server as a DHCP relay agent, or set up the SBS box as VPN server. The new server's domain name doesn't appear in the list because of WINS issues, this is not related to trusts.

<< SBS only has terminal server in administrative mode >>
Yes, too many issues using a Domain Controller hosting IIS+Exchange+SQL+ISA server AND running user applications on top of that. You also shouldn't install Outlook on an Exchange server, so that's out of the question.

DFS is not really of any use with a single fileserver. DFS is used for consolidating file server resources so you have a single point-of-contact for all shares in the organization, and to make certain types of shares fault-tolerant by replicating data between fileservers.

Good luck.
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by:Rant32
ID: 16572208
<< Is there some way to failover SQL / access databases? If one server fails, the other server taking over? Is clustering the only way? >>

I believe Enterprise editions of SQL Server 2005 support database replication but I don't know if this can be used to make databases fault-tolerant. The only method I know of (that works, anyway) is clustering.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy earned 400 total points
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dingir,

I truly do not mean for this comment to be an attack on you or your skills... however, I'm not sure why you think your question was answered... because I feel that still may not seem to understand the concept of SBS.  

You must migrate your workstations over to it's domain and if you want to keep another server on the network, it too must be migrated to the new domain.  Because there can be no trusts with SBS, there cannot be two domains.  SBS is designed to be the CENTRAL BACKBONE of your network... it MUST hold all FSMO roles, and it must be the ROOT of the AD Forest.  This will allow much better centralized managent of your network!

Unfortunately some of the things Rant32 suggested offloading to a separate server aren't possible with SBS.  Specifically a front-end Exchange server.  With SBS, Exchange must remain on the SBS.  The best uses for additional servers in an SBS environment are generally Terminal Services (which DOES require additional Terminal Services CALs) or a Line of Business application server.  

You also wouldn't want to offload WSUS to a different server because the integration provided by having it on SBS would be lost.

The upgrade to R2 is ABSOLUTELY available and you should get it:  http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/sbs/r2/upgrade.mspx has all the pertinent information about it.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16572224
Rant32... one other point... DFS must be deployed on an SBS if Roaming Profiles are to be used... just FYI.  See http://sbsurl.com/postinstall for more info on that.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:Rant32
ID: 16572234
True, could use some clarification: By the front-end to Exchange, I meant the OWA web page so you don't have to publish IIS on the SBS and keep IIS for Intranet purposes.

With a limit of 75 clients, there is no need for a true FE/BE configuration.
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by:Rant32
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<< DFS must be deployed on an SBS if Roaming Profiles are to be used >>

"Shares for storing roaming profiles and redirected folders could be added as links under a DFS root and the DFS paths could be used to configure roaming profiles and redirected folders. This simplifies the task of moving these folders later, if required.
[...]
Roaming Profiles should be used within a DFS namespace as described in the “Distributed File System” section in this chapter. This makes it easier to change the location of folders containing the Roaming Profiles, if required in the future."

Can you point me to the part where it says "must"? I can only find "could".

I don't consider this a technical requirement, and the advantage that the share name doesn't change when moving data to another fileserver is not specific to roaming profiles but applies to all data.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
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My apology... I overstated the point by using the word MUST instead of SHOULD.  It's just a good idea, in my opinion.

On the point of running OWA on a different server, while it's possible, again not recommended because the Configure Email and Internet Connection Wizard creates and configures the OWA site automatically.  Moving it would break the wizard which could cause other issues.

It is always my suggestion as well as that of many SBS Specialists that Small Business Server be installed using the default configuration to ensure that everything works... then, if modifications are needed, they can be done afterwards.  This is certainly different than Enterprise settings where Network, AD and DNS planning is a major part of the deployment.  Using the default config will significantly cut down on the long-term maintenance costs of an SBS... so usually it's better to spend a bit more on a beefier server than it is to try to spin off tasks that are part of SBS's feature set.

I would also point out to dingir that while both servers may be working on the network with two domains at the moment... the SBS will shut itself down 14 days after being introduced to a network which has another domain controller that holds FSMO roles and is a Global Catalog.  So, this needs to be resolved ASAP.

You must add the workstations to the SBS's Domain and since you've not done a proper migration, you'll probably have to handle migrating the profiles by following the steps in this article:
http://www.certmag.com/articles/templates/cmag_howto.asp?articleid=819&zoneid=91

Jeff
TechSoEasy

P.S.  These "musts" are NOT EXAGERATED.

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by:dingir
ID: 16572738
TechSoEasy
This question is answered is because it was about setting the new SBS servers DHCP on the network together with a windows 2003 server while configuring it. I've got that anser - I've disabled DHCP-server on the old domain and now running the DHCP-server on the new. That's works and thats why this question is answered! :-)

After that, the part of the old server - you are a second bit from agressive on that! :-). I will explain. When all clients are transferred to the new SBS-server (that's a new question i'm about to ask later) I just kill the old server, installing a RAID on it, reinstall the OS and thier clients and let it stand offline until I was given a nice way to use it. If there is possible to cluster this old server with the new - that's fine also! But still, that a third question :). Thanks very much for the upgrade to R2-information. That's comes a lot in hand.

Rant32
Thanks. I will came back with more specifik questions about this. WINS is nothing to care about at the moment. DFS is one question, because I thought that why I feel having no control over the network chares. I remember in Novell, I could select multiply specific maps to be visible as one virtual networkshare.

I'll be back. Thanks for very helpfull answers!
I need those very much later, when the server-exchange is going to begin :)
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by:dhoustonie
ID: 16572765
R2 is still in beta and is expected to be released in the 2nd quarter but I would expect later on in the year, it would include wsus as a very integrated part of the server and server management tools.

David
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16573722
dingir,

I'm sorry if you think I was agressive because I'm warning you that you only have 14 days from the time you added the SBS to your network to complete the migration of the workstations.  Had you followed the domain rename on the old server you could have just added your SBS to the domain (per the KB article noted) without the need to migrate Active Directory User and Computer accounts... which now has to be done within the time constraints.  

I think that warning you about this is quite reasonable.  

Jeff
TechSoEasy


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by:dingir
ID: 16573819
Hi Jeff! Thank you! No it's ok.. of course :-). I'm just not interested in any migration of the workstations. Or do I don't know that much about it? I think it will be easier to manually copy every clients favorites, desktop and my documents (25 profiles) to new clean SBS-profiles. Because everything else will be difference or new. Drive letters, new GPO's, domains, usernames, roll-out of office instead of client-installed, routins for offline-files and so on.

I will came back for those questions later! Just keep the eyes up, there will be available points :)
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 16574257
Okay... no problem, just wanted to make sure you had the old server disconnected in time.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:dingir
ID: 16577193
Hi TechSoEasy
Now you told me for the third (4th?) time and finally i get it.

Not so bad :-)

OK. You said that if my old PDC is still connected to the network 14 days after I connected the SBS, the SBS will shutdown? This is not an "if", this is something that actually going to happen? I have no plans putting the clients to the new server within those days. So, how do I fix this? I can always disconnect the SBS from the main network again and reuse the old dhcp-server :-).
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/SBS_Small_Business_Server/Q_21833301.html new question, new points.
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