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Ghost 10.0 Disk Copy doesn't boot

A Ghost 10.0 disk copy does not boot.  I have created the copy with the Active Disk and MBR options checked, but after setting the copy to Master, it will not boot past the Dark Blue-Light Blue-Dark Blue Window XP Pro screen.  Any idea of what is wrong?
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ccarkeek
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ccarkeek
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1 Solution
 
Expert4XPCommented:
I'm assuming you are/did follow the instructions in Chapter 12 of the Ghost manual.
Did your original hard drive contain more than one partition?  After copying, did you shut down, and then remove the old hard drive, change the new one to master (or single) then boot?

Some drive manufacturers have a different setting for master with slave present vs. single drive.
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Expert4XPCommented:
Some PC's (particularly Dell), but others have a small hidden FAT partition in front of the main NTFS partition.  Can you tell if that is/was the case?  Is your pc still bootable with the old hard drive?
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ccarkeekAuthor Commented:
It does boot with the old hard drive.  It is a Dell.  There is a small extra partition on the old hard drive, in addition to the NTFS partition.  Do I need to Ghost that small extra partition to the new drive?  Thanks for the help.
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markpower60Commented:
can the current hard drive boot? If you can try to boot ghost in DOS mode, then clone disk by disk (not partition), this should work.

Good luck
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Expert4XPCommented:
Ccarkeek, I suspected you have a Dell.

The simple answer is you should have
1. Ghosted the small FAT partition
2. Then, ghosted your NTFS partition.

That is why you can't boot.  Here is a great website that explains some of the real anomalyies about Dell and cloning:

http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/index.htm

Bottom line is that you want your new hard disk to be same partitions and same order as your old one, unless you want to fiddle with the boot.ini.  Also, Dell includes special diagnostics in their hidden partition, which you might want in the future.

(I'm assuming you are in the process of replacing your hard drive with a larger one.  If not, let me know.)

You can start over as I indicated above, or let me know if you need more help from where you are right now.
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gonzal13RetiredCommented:
I also had problems when I did a HD COPY whith Ghost.

I went and purchased Acronis True Image
Did a HDCOPY to the slave drive.
I do a HDCOPY once a month
Using the following manager I am able to boot to the slave drive.
http://www.osloader.com/download.htm

I then made a folder called 'Database'
Next I put all the data files underneath it.
After the first copy and paste to the slave drive I do the following:
I goto the slave drive and erase 'Database'
I then do a copy and paste daily.
By erasing the 'database' on the slave drive first it eliminates the 'this file exists, overwrite?'
You can get a downloaded Acronis for 30 dollars from:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRatingReview.asp?DEPA=0&Type=&Item=N82E1681279691SF&SortField=0&Pagesize=&Page=2

gonzal13(joe)
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Expert4XPCommented:
ccarkeek,

The only caveat about using Ghost 10 (which you already have) is stated in the first paragraph of Chapter 12, "If the hard disk you are copying contains more than one partition, you must copy the partition one at a time to the new hard disk."  I put a big arrow next to that statement in my manual.  It should stand out more.

If you don't want to start over by deleting the partition on your new hard drive, then post your copy of boot.ini and I can guide you on how to modify it.

Or look here for some references and info about it:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=289022

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Expert4XPCommented:
Most likely your boot.ini says this:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP " /fastdetect

And you need to change it to:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP " /fastdetect

By the way, there is an "Edit boot.ini" utility that you can use by booting from the Ghost 10 CD.  It's in the utilites section.

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ccarkeekAuthor Commented:
Although the hardware is Dell, the Windows XP Pro is a clean install to an empty hard drive with SP2 and all current updates.  We have a new set of Open Value licenses, and are trying to avoid all the steps to build each PC, by duplicating the first build to the other hard drives.  

The second "partition" on the source drive actually says it is unallocated, the size is only 7 MB and it was created by the Windows XP Pro installation.  Ghost doesn't even display a line for the small unallocated "partition" on the source disk until the select destination screen, and then it doesnt allow that "partition" to be highlighted, since it is part of the source disk.  So, I can only Ghost the source NTFS partition to the destination hard drive.  When I make the destination hard drive the master and disconnect the source drive, then start the PC, it gets to the dark blue - light blue - dark blue horizontal bands page, with the Windows XP logo and goes no further.

I have reformatted the destination disk a couple of times and repeated the copy disk operation with boot enable and mbr copy options selected, but can't get a copy to boot all the way to the desktop.

Any further thoughts on how to get Ghost 10.o to make a bootable copy?

Thanks!
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gonzal13RetiredCommented:
Out of curiosity try Acronis. It will allow a 15 day trial, which is something you should consider with the boot manager.
www.acronis.com
As mentioned, with the boot manager you can after you do a HD COPY boot to the slave drive which Norton does not allow. Norton states that one must make the slave a master. That is why I like acronis. It costs 30 dollars on a download which is all that you need. I did a beta trest on the server version and the instructions are fine, thus you do not need the book.

Sincerely

Gonzal13(joe)
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Expert4XPCommented:
>Any further thoughts on how to get Ghost 10.o to make a bootable copy?

Did you change the boot.ini partition(x) as I indicated above, using the Ghost 10 boot CD utility?
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Expert4XPCommented:
Ccarkeek,

Are you still stuck or need any further help?
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ccarkeekAuthor Commented:
I did use the Ghost Utility "Edit boot.ini" to look at the boot record, and it looked normal:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP" /fastdetect


Here's what finally solved the problem:

I booted the PC, containing the Ghost destination drive (set as master), with an old Win 98 Setup Boot Floppy Disk.  Then, at the A:\ prompt, I typed "fdisk /mbr" .

I removed the Boot Floppy Disk, and rebooted the PC.  The PC booted exactly as it had with the source drive, and was fully functional.

Any thoughts on why Ghost didn't create a properly functioning MBR on the destination drive?
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Expert4XPCommented:
Yes.  By running the "fdisk /mbr" you cleared the XP DiskID field of your "almost" cloned drive.  (remember you didn't copy all partitions, just the second NTFS one.)  The DiskID field contains the drive signature, and XP tries to map the drive signature (if present) to a specific drive letter.

You used Method #3 as explaned in this link:
http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm

If you had copied the first partition (the small one), and then the second partition (the NTFS one) you would not have had the problem.  Again this is all explained here about the uniqueness of Dell setup:

http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/index.htm
http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/

Glad it's working now!
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Expert4XPCommented:
ccarkeep,

I ran across your question when looking through some of the older open-questions.

Did I answer your question "why Ghost didn't create a properly function  MBR on the destination drive?"  I re-read my answer and think maybe it needs a little more clarification.  While the DiskID can come into play, this is probably a clearer straightforward answer:

The master boot record (always located on the first sector of the hard drive) contains code that tells the PC where/what partition to boot.  In the case of Dell PC's the MBR is NOT the standard XP one, but one that points to the SECOND partition, the Dell NTFS one.

Ghost copied the MBR because you set the option to do that. But on your new hard drive you only have ONE partition, so the pointer in the MBR no longer was valid.

When you re-wrote the MBR with your diskette, it wrote the default MBR pointing to the first partition.

Here's some more details as well:
http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/bootbkgd.htm

I hope this takes care of your question.  Does this help explain it better?
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ccarkeekAuthor Commented:
One key fact about the disk I was using as source is that it was not a Dell disk image.  This was Dell hardware, but the disk had been swept clean and reformatted, then donated to a charity, then loaded with a regular WinXP Pro disk licensed under Open Value.  Under these conditions, the Dell issue doesn't seem to have been part of the problem.
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Expert4XPCommented:
>> It does boot with the old hard drive.  It is a Dell.  There is a small extra partition on the old hard drive, in addition to the NTFS partition.  Do I need to Ghost that small extra partition to the new drive?  Thanks for the help.

Rereading your earlier post, it looks like when when you said that the disk was originally swept clean and reformatted, *only* the normal NTFS partition was reformatted (not the small extra partition you mentioned) and the MBR wasn't modified.

Does that explain it?  (I always hate to leave unanswered questions up in the air if possible, and that's why I returned to your original problem and the resolution.)
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ccarkeekAuthor Commented:
I think this question is almost resolved, but the matter of the second "partition" is still confusing.  There was no second  "partition", which could be selected by the source step in Ghost.  The second "partition" was only visible in the destination step of Ghost, so Ghost offered no way to create this phantom "partition" on the destination drive - it could not be Ghosted.

Also, I have found that Ghosting my fresh NON-Dell Windows XP Pro source worked fine, when I set the destination disk's jumper to Cable Select, rather than Master, after Ghosting.  I did not need to do the "fdisk /mbr" process in this case to get a successful startup with the copy.

I think Expert4XP deserves the points, and I hope Expert4XP can clarify the mystery of the second "partition" that never got Ghosted, and the Cable Select matter.

Thank you.
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Expert4XPCommented:
Glad it's almost resolved, so to wrap it up:

Ghost 10 wizard for disk-copy will allow you to only copy one partition at a time.  (That's not really obvious in the manual) I just looked at my wizard and the first step showed all my partitions.  The proper procedure would have been to run the wizard once for the small FAT partition, then run the wizard again for the NTFS partiton.  Then remove the old drive and change jumpers (if you had them as master/slave)

Now that you completed everything and it's running, when you run the wizard again, there is only one partition to choose.  If both drives are cable select that is proper, or both with one master and one slave is ok.  With cable-select, the PC determined which one is master by which position on the cable it is;  the last one on the cable is the "master".  You didn't need to correct the mbr anymore because the one partition to one partition disk-copy is correct for your current configuration.

For future weekly or monthly backups, most people use Ghost to create backup-image files.  They are compressed files and you can store multiple versions (months) on a drive.  Use disk-copy (aka ghost-cloning) when you want to replace a drive with larger drive.

Thanks and hope this clarify everything.  If not, let me know and I'll try to explain it as best as I can (I don't know everything either...hah).
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ccarkeekAuthor Commented:
What created the phantom unselectable (by Ghost) "partition", when I did a clean install of WinXP Pro onto a freshly formatted NTFS HD?  This was not a Dell Recovery.  I used only the Microsoft media to create the source.
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Expert4XPCommented:
ccarkee, I'm going to go back to a quote you said earlier, and see if I can explain what I think is going on:
>> Date: 05/02/2006 08:52PM PDT
 Author Comment  
Although the hardware is Dell, the Windows XP Pro is a clean install to an empty hard drive with SP2 and all current updates.  We have a new set of Open Value licenses, and are trying to avoid all the steps to build each PC, by duplicating the first build to the other hard drives.  
The second "partition" on the source drive actually says it is unallocated, the size is only 7 MB and it was created by the Windows XP Pro installation.  Ghost doesn't even display a line for the small unallocated "partition" on the source disk until the select destination screen, and then it doesnt allow that "partition" to be highlighted, since it is part of the source disk.  So, I can only Ghost the source NTFS partition to the destination hard drive.  When I make the destination hard drive the master and disconnect the source drive, then start the PC, it gets to the dark blue - light blue - dark blue horizontal bands page, with the Windows XP logo and goes no further.
I have reformatted the destination disk a couple of times and repeated the copy disk operation with boot enable and mbr copy options selected, but can't get a copy to boot all the way to the desktop.
>>

The "second partition" on your original sounce that you mentioned above, is I believe the Dell diagnostic partition, created by Dell at the factory.  You said it was created by XP Pro, but I don't think that's true.  It was created by Dell, and it is a primary partition, but it is marked hidden.  Your NTFS partition is marked active.

When you said you reformatted the destination disk a couple of times, I think you meant you formatted the NTFS partition several times.  That's not the same as deleting all partitions on a drive. A drive has to have two things done to it make it ready for use: (1) fdisk to create partitions from a blank drive, and then (2) formatting of the partition to make it useable by software.

Dell's diagnostic partition is accessed by special keys during boot.  I think it is Ctrl-F11 or some similar combination of keys during startup.  Dell phone supports likes to run these diagnostics whenever someone calls them with a problem.  They use it to run stand-alone (not from XP) diagnostics.

The only functionality you have lost now by having what would be called a normal one-partition-only NTFS XP Pro system is the Dell diagnostics.  I have one pc here that I built myself and have XP Pro Retail on it.  My first primary partition is the NTFS partition.  I have another Dell pc here that has the small (hidden) partition diagnostic as the first FAT partition.

I'm sorry I can't explain why Ghost 10 wouldn't allow you to select the "unselectable" partition.  That doesn't sound right to me.

When you take these pc's and do a clean fresh install of XP onto the NTFS partition, do you verify that the Dell FAT partition (and any others) have been deleted?  Do you run fdisk and fdisk /mbr on the drive beforehand to make certain that all information has been erased?

Maybe that is where we are getting conflicting theories.


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Expert4XPCommented:
Here's another thought that I just read from Dan Goodell's website regarding the Dell partition:

http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/index.htm
"Partition Parameters.  The Dell Utility partition is really an ordinary FAT16 partition, but the partition-type indicator in the partition table has been changed to 'DE'. For brevity, I'll henceforth refer to this as the DE partition. This section describes in more detail the parameters of this partition."

I don't have Ghost 10.0 installed on a Dell pc that has this first hidden partition.  What I am wondering (speculating) at this point is that maybe Ghost 10 does NOT like the partition-type of "DE" and hence won't let you copy it, because it is an unknown partition type.  

Just a wild guess.  I'll do some more research and see if I can confirm this.

Since you have other Dell pc's there with same configuration, do you have Ghost 10.0 installed on any of them?  It would be interesting to hear your experiences.  I am talking about a Dell pc that you have NOT modified or ghosted any of the partitions.


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Expert4XPCommented:
I read several of the Dell threads, and none of them mention any problems using Ghost to copy the Utility partition.  So disregard what I said about the unique partition id.  Here's all the discussions:

http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/search?submitted=true&type=message&advanced=true&body_all=utility+partition+clone&q=&body_without=&page_size=20&author=&board_id=
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Expert4XPCommented:
Mystery solved, I believe.  I sometimes feel like a doctor operating on an appendix over the phone.  I can see most of what happens but not really.  Late last night I suddenly realized the problem, and explanation.  Here's the clues:

>> What created the phantom unselectable (by Ghost) "partition", when I did a clean install of WinXP Pro onto a freshly formatted NTFS HD?  This was not a Dell Recovery.  I used only the Microsoft media to create the source.

>> We have a new set of Open Value licenses, and are trying to avoid all the steps to build each PC, by duplicating the first build to the other hard drives.  

And the final clue:
>> The second "partition" was only visible in the destination step of Ghost,

Short answer:  Are the hard drives you are cloning TO (the targets) brand new blank unformatted drives from the manufacturer?  Or, are they recycled hard drives?

I think they are recycled hard drives.  And, that you or someone else didn't delete ALL partitions from the drives and erase the MBR (fdisk /mbr) before reusing them.

That would explain why we were talking about two different problems, two different scenarios.  I thought originally you were taking the ORIGINAL hard drive as delivered by Dell and cloning it, but forgetting to copy all partitions.  Thus the errors.

But I think you were taking a clean hard drive that had/has Windows XP on it, just like you want it, with only one partition on it, and then (in this case) cloned partition 1 from the source onto partition 2 onto the destination.  Thus the boot problem!

That's why Ghost could only see the small utility partition on the destination and not the source, because it WAS only on the destination.

Solution:  before cloning, use a partition manager or the XP Recovery Console to delete ALL partitions on your target hard drives BEFORE use.  Also for extra safety measure clear the mbr (fdisk /mbr).
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314058/
Be sure and select the options during the Ghost 10 copy-disk operation to set target active, copy mbr, etc.

I think this should do it in the future.

Did I solve the mystery?


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ccarkeekAuthor Commented:
Thank you, Expert4XP, for your help on this problem.  I think the mystery is solved.  

These PC's were donated by a local city government to the charity I'm helping, and they were sanitized before donation.  My routine now, after you helped solve the initial problem, is to Ghost the drive I loaded from scratch (with WinXP Pro and Office 2003 and many updates) to the other sanitized drives, then put the copies into service in the CS mode.  This routine is fast and it works well.

Thank you!!
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Expert4XPCommented:
Finally, a happy ending.  :)

Sounds like the local city government sanitized the pc's but didn't remove the Utility partition.  So if you follow the steps I outlined to delete that partition also and clear the mbr first, you should be in business.

I can sleep at night again!  hah.
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