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Laptop hard disk drive -- Ghost backup

Using Norton Ghost, I want to backup my laptop's 40GB hard disk to a desktop disk, BEFORE removing it from the laptop.

(1) Can I do it in "Safe Mode"?  Do I need Networking?  I'm sometimes having trouble booting into Full Win XP Pro.

(2) Can I do it with a boot CD?  Is the Norton Ghost CD bootable?  The laptop has no floppy drive.

(3) Can I "ghost" the laptop drive to a larger desktop drive?  And then restore it to the same or larger laptop drive?

Could you give me step-by-step instructions on how to do this?  Thank you very much!
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csharp_guru
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csharp_guru
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2 Solutions
 
scrathcyboyCommented:
Ghost boots to a floppy drive, and you need another drive to copy to, what is it?
So you will need to cut a CD with a floppy boot setor -- use ISObuster to do this.
Then copy the floppy boot sector to the CD as well as the ghost program, and boot from CD>
But you still need a drive to backup to, a network drive, so you need network drivers on the CD>
I fear this is all too much for you to handle, it can be done, but it is complex, not for the feint of heart.

As I said in other question, MUCH MUCH simpler to remove the HDD from laptop, get a 2.5" to 3.5" IDE adapter and put the drive as master on the secondary controller of the desktop, and your new bought EBay drive as slave on the same secondary controller, then follow my instructions in other question to finish.  Finally, set the new drive to master jumpers, and put it into the laptop, making sure the drive type is see correctly by the laptop BIOS.
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SteveG00000Commented:
If you can write CD/DVD's then all you need to do is create a partition on your existing HDD then make the ghost image on that, you would then be able to write it off and then your job is complete with the info above.
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scrathcyboyCommented:
" create a partition on your existing HDD then make the ghost image on that,"

HUH ??  Almost all windows users have their HDD fully assigned to an existing C + D + E partition, the idea of creating an extra partition on a windows system is not terriby realistic, after the fact, I am afraid.
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SteveG00000Commented:
lol, scrathcyboy, if he already has a seperate partition then it's not a problem.
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nobusCommented:
trying to answer your Q's :
1-Safe mode does not load drivers, but allows you to boot with network ability which you want to use
2-No, you cannot do it with a boot cd,unless you make one yourself - as said
3-yes
Look here for more info :  
 http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/features.jsp?pcid=br&pvid=ghost10

but many prefer Acronis drive image, it is said to be easier to use :   www.acronis.com/ 

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nobusCommented:
what i would do, however, is buy a 2.5" to 3.5" adaptor cable, and attach the drive to a desktop, containing the old and new laptop drives, + the original desktop drive; then do the imaging

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_techspecs_full.php/masterid=811539//
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rindiCommented:
Actually ghost (at least certain versions) can boot to CD, but I don't think all versions have that option. Like nobus mentioned, you should use acronis, it has all these functions builtin, can image to a networked drive or to USB drives, or CD/DVD's directly from the bootable acronis CD.

And, like scrathy said it is a lot easier to image the disk via an adapter connected to a desktop PC.
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scrathcyboyCommented:
" Actually ghost (at least certain versions) can boot to CD"

rindi, since ghost is such an often-recommended program on expert exchange, I would like to see more details on which versions, how to setup etc, maybe on another question.  If the people here got together and developed a working ghost CD setup/sequence, including network, USB drivers, maybe even RAID(?) it would help everyone, no?
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rindiCommented:
Actually I don't understand why ghost is recommended at all. It is a symantec product and symantec s*@#s! Acronis is far better. Yet there is a ghost version 2003, and in this version you can make images to CD/DVD's, These CD/DVD's have a bootable copy of ghost on them (or that's what I seem to remember). You can also have USB and network drivers. But as I said, I don't like symantec and therefore don't support it, also I don't have that product anymore, so I can't explain things better.
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csharp_guruAuthor Commented:
Thank you very much!  This is my first question on E-E, and I'm blown away by all the great help I am getting!  I'd like to try a solution and make sure it works for me before accepting an answer.  Laptops = too many variables.  Hope you don't mind the day or two delay in accepting.

Some more info I found out ... My hard drive is a 1.8" 40 GB Toshiba, not 2.5" as I thought.  Laptop is Sony TR2AP.
 
I also found that www.apricorn.com has a product called EZ-UP-18T for about $40, using 1.8" disk with built-in cloning software called EZ Gig II which is a "plug-and-go solution".  Has any one used this or any other Apricorn product?

Rindi, I agree that Acronis TrueImage is far, far superior to Ghost.  I bought it about a year ago.  However, I've misplaced the download and also the bootable CD I created.  Do you know if they offer an upgrade?  

Nobus & Scrathcyboy,  I also agree it's easier to clone in a desktop, and I've built two desktops, but the one time I opened a laptop, about 7 years ago, it was quite a heartpounder putting it back together again.  Can you give me any pointers on opening the Sony TR2AP laptop and replacing the hard drive?

SteveG0000, I found a bootable Ghost CD which is in French, and I don't fully understand it's menus, so I am going to try to find the Acronis bootable CD, before I try to understand the French Ghost.

I have been able to attach a 100 GB external hard disk to the laptop via USB 2.0 in Safe Mode.  Can I "clone" my laptop drive (32 GB used) to a folder on the external drive and then clone it back to a brand new unitialized 1.8" drive in my laptop?  Using either Acronis or Ghost?

Once again, i greatly appreciate your help!
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scrathcyboyCommented:
The modern laptops (should) make it much easier to remove the drive, generally there is a snap open cover and there the drive is, just be careful with the cable.  The 2.5 to 3.5 drive converter costs only about $3-5 or so.  Dont know this Sony in detail, but if a newer laptop, the HDD should be easy to get out.

"I have been able to attach a 100 GB external hard disk to the laptop via USB 2.0 in Safe Mode.  Can I "clone" my laptop drive (32 GB used) to a folder on the external drive and then clone it back to a brand new unitialized 1.8" drive in my laptop?  Using either Acronis or Ghost?"

YES, both will do it, you just have to work through the details.
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Expert4XPCommented:
>> Rindi, I agree that Acronis TrueImage is far, far superior to Ghost.  I bought it about a year ago.

To be fair, be sure you are comparing apples to oranges first.  The Ghost version that Rindi is referring to is Ghost 2003.

Ghost 2003 was replaced by Ghost 9, 10, and now Save & Restore.  These newer Ghost versions are based upon a different product, not Ghost 2003.  Symantec purchased PowerQuest, makers of Drive Image and Partition Magic.  Symantec retained the Partition Magic name, but renamed Drive Image to Ghost 9.

The current version of Acronis True Image is 9.1 and the current version of Ghost is 11 (aka Norton Save & Restore), although because Ghost 11 is so new, most people compare True Image 9.1 vs. Ghost 10.0.

Norton Save & Restore (ghost 11) added the feature to backup files, as well as sector images.  They probably did this to compete with Acronis which has that capability.

Both True Image 9.1 and Ghost 10.0 use a recovery boot cd for disaster recovery.  I think the Acronis cd uses Linux and the Symantec cd uses/is based on Windows XP Pre-Installation Environment (similar to bartPE).
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nobusCommented:
for your 1.8" drive, you'll need something like this :
http://www.addonics.com/products/io/aaedt18IDE25.asp
i was unable to find a guide for how to replace the drive, and here they even say it is not supported :

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/model-faq.pl?mdl=PCGTR2AP
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csharp_guruAuthor Commented:
Thank you all for your help.  I have accepted Rindi and Scrathyboy with equally split points, and a grade A.

As the hard disk is a non-standard 1.8" Toshiba (later versions of the Sony TR2AP laptop used a 1.8" Hitachi with a standard 2.5" style connector), it's not easy to mount it in a second system.  So I have ordered the Apricorn EZ-UP-18T and a 60 GB Toshiba 1.8" drive to clone it via USB connection.

As Nobus pointed up and I found out after several fruitless calls to Sony (great products, horrible service), the hard drive upgrade is "not supported", translation: "buy a new laptop".  Using the Addonics adapters appears to be considerably more complicated than the Apricorn solution, hope it works!

Scrathcyboy's comment that newer laptops (should) make it easier to change the hard disks, sadly does not apply to the Sony TR2AP.  Looks like I'll have to remove about 6 screws and dig deep into the little laptop.  I have ordered the Service Manual and will wait for it before attempting the major surgery.  

Thanks also to Expert4XP for explaining Acronis vs Ghost.  I had forgotten about Acronis until Nobus and Rindi mentioned it.  Then I remembered how I was impressed with Acronis TrueImage after struggling with Ghost 2002 (I think).  Anyway it's good to know that competition is alive and well.  

Apparently the Apricorn product comes with software, so I'll use it first, but I plan to use Acronis more in the future.

Thanks again for all your help.  My first E-E question was a wonderful experience.

 





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rindiCommented:
your welcome.
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scrathcyboyCommented:
glad you solved this, yes Sony is iconocalstic - they dont like to conform to standards.  Good luck.
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csharp_guruAuthor Commented:
Epilogue:

Cloning and exchange of the hard drive in the laptop was completed Sunday.  Thanks for everybody's help.

I was able to clone the 40 GB 1.8" drive to a 60 GB via USB 2.0 before opening the laptop, using the Apricorn EZ-UP-18T product.  The EZ-Gig II software that came with it turned out to be (surprise!) nothing but a private-labeled stripped-down version of Acronis TrueImage!  After exchanging hard disks, I can use the 40 GB in the Apricorn enclosure, an elegant brushed aluminum box slightly larger than a matchbox.  Right now, I can't close the Apricorn box properly because screws supplied seem to be the wrong size.  Hopefuly Apricorn will correct it Tuesday.

Opening the tiny Sony TR2AP laptop was not for the faint of heart!  Sony Support was no help at all, as usual.  Their answer was simply "hard disk upgrades are not supported".  Luckily I have a friend about 40 miles away who buys and sells laptops on eBay.  So I went over there, and was very glad to get his help.  There were over 20 screws to be removed, most of them so small that you can hardly tell they are screws without a lens!  There were three layers inside and the hard disk was on the middle layer.  All the ribbon connectors were cellophane-like with metal conductors drawn on them.  My only regret was that I did not film the entire surgery!

After some white-knuckle moments, the laptop was re-assembled with the HD upgraded to 60 GB.  Two screws were dropped on the carpet and it was a miracle that we found them, after picking up several imposters that looked like the miniscule screws.  If it was a shag carpet, there would have been no hope at all.

Now I know why the hard drive upgrade is "not supported".  
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