aminase
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Etymology of "modern" dreams
They say: people around the world only recently started using the word "dream" in the sense of "ideal" "hope" "future" or "aspiration..." and not until the first half of the 20th century.
I mean, all the words that is translated to an English word "dream(s)," i.e., for example, a Chinese/Japanese character for it (pronouced "yume" in Japanese, as in Kurosawa's movie), has exactly the same meaning and the same usage (they began saying that word to mean "hope for the future" only after 1900's.)
But do you know "WHO" started this movement? and "WHEN" in "WHICH" language... in English "dream" or something else?
I mean, all the words that is translated to an English word "dream(s)," i.e., for example, a Chinese/Japanese character for it (pronouced "yume" in Japanese, as in Kurosawa's movie), has exactly the same meaning and the same usage (they began saying that word to mean "hope for the future" only after 1900's.)
But do you know "WHO" started this movement? and "WHEN" in "WHICH" language... in English "dream" or something else?
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Yes, thanks to Paul, we understand that transmission of ideas in today's society and "meme complexes(?)" of the people who receive such information in general can explain why the concept and meaning of particular word has spreaded so quickly throughout the world.
But if the alternative meaning of "dream" was originated some decades ago (if not a hundred or thousand years) when people didn't have the Internet or TV, email or fax, or any other means of communication between cultures except trading on ships or horses or camels, then was it just a coincidence or a result of natural selection?
Or whatever the reason was, where (if not from whom) did such connotation of the word "dream" come out?
I started feeling it sounds silly, but since I asked for it, I'd stick to this: when, where or who?
Andy
But if the alternative meaning of "dream" was originated some decades ago (if not a hundred or thousand years) when people didn't have the Internet or TV, email or fax, or any other means of communication between cultures except trading on ships or horses or camels, then was it just a coincidence or a result of natural selection?
Or whatever the reason was, where (if not from whom) did such connotation of the word "dream" come out?
I started feeling it sounds silly, but since I asked for it, I'd stick to this: when, where or who?
Andy
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Maybe I've gone a little too far: it might not be a kind of any cultural or stylistic "shift" that we see in the "second meaning" of the word "dream" (something that we would like to materialize or manifest in some way). It may not be so dramatic. But I'd like to see at least what initiated a daily (or worldly) use of the word in rather practical sense than in the sense of "extase" (because I could say it's "my dream" to see my kid pass this semester!).
It's not surprising to me if a variety of people and languages developed or adopted the same meaning and usage over time... that could be a kind of "convergent (if not congruent) evolution" in the minds of human beings. But I just don't know why and how that was possible.
I'm still curious about the origin of such minds... in which part of the world, what language, or what phenomenon that we can find our common root of particular meaning and usage of "dream," because this word speaks for itself of what's universal and the word possesses univocal concepts or ideas, unlike many other words that could be so "lost in translation."
Andy
It's not surprising to me if a variety of people and languages developed or adopted the same meaning and usage over time... that could be a kind of "convergent (if not congruent) evolution" in the minds of human beings. But I just don't know why and how that was possible.
I'm still curious about the origin of such minds... in which part of the world, what language, or what phenomenon that we can find our common root of particular meaning and usage of "dream," because this word speaks for itself of what's universal and the word possesses univocal concepts or ideas, unlike many other words that could be so "lost in translation."
Andy
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Infinity08: "it's a natural evolution based on a civilization's progress in the domain of science."
Wow, what a pleasure to have such a definitive remark... I could believe this without a proof.
Just in case... is there any support to this opinion?
Wow, what a pleasure to have such a definitive remark... I could believe this without a proof.
Just in case... is there any support to this opinion?
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Hmmm, it looks like the evolution of great human minds in the 18th-20th centuries, and not only in America.
I just guessed a phrase "dream come true" can be the "meme-complex" of this particular use of the word? Walt Disney could take credit for that?
This is great. I dream of more and more to come... until we find certain mutually supportive, or symbiotic(?), relationship between the social or cultural usages of this term.
Thank you, Wwysdom.
I just guessed a phrase "dream come true" can be the "meme-complex" of this particular use of the word? Walt Disney could take credit for that?
This is great. I dream of more and more to come... until we find certain mutually supportive, or symbiotic(?), relationship between the social or cultural usages of this term.
Thank you, Wwysdom.
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Aramis, what I know as "i.e." is "that is" and nothing else. Is there anything wrong? Bad hair? I always do.
Andy
Andy
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Thank you all! I decided to close this thread before anything bad happens on 6-6-6 (you gotta be kidding!).
I wanted to accept both answers from Wwysdom and Infinity08, but I had to go by the rules.
Infinity08 has come up with a hypothesis, which is so clear and appears so decisive that I hope someday someone write a thesis (or a future bestseller) about "a natural evolution" of word usages "based on a civilization's progress."
I made Infinity08's opinion the "accepted answer" so that all other comments become the support to his hypothesis.
I know it's still short of finding "the founding father/mother of modern daydreams" as Wwysdom wrote, but I hope someone's going to find that out... and I'd be thrilled to read his or her book or an article on this topic in the future.
Again, I thank you all for your insights.
Have a happy dream...
Andy
I wanted to accept both answers from Wwysdom and Infinity08, but I had to go by the rules.
Infinity08 has come up with a hypothesis, which is so clear and appears so decisive that I hope someday someone write a thesis (or a future bestseller) about "a natural evolution" of word usages "based on a civilization's progress."
I made Infinity08's opinion the "accepted answer" so that all other comments become the support to his hypothesis.
I know it's still short of finding "the founding father/mother of modern daydreams" as Wwysdom wrote, but I hope someone's going to find that out... and I'd be thrilled to read his or her book or an article on this topic in the future.
Again, I thank you all for your insights.
Have a happy dream...
Andy
>> that I hope someday someone write a thesis (or a future bestseller) about "a natural evolution" of word usages "based on a civilization's progress."
That sounds like a good idea ... :) I'd be interested to read it too !
That sounds like a good idea ... :) I'd be interested to read it too !
Thanks, aminase!
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My question was, when and what population started to express their high hopes and visions in the word "dream" in the sense we use today. And now Japanese citizens can interpret the word in the same way, and so do many other populations... in their own language. That's phenomenal.