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Legato Agent hanging with MS SQL Server 2000.. backup advice?
Hi folks,
I'm the sysadmin for my company, and we host most of our production servers at an external NOC. This NOC does our backups on a separate network using Legato.
Many times a backup job for a not so huge database takes over 10 hours -- much longer than it should. I believe it's because it is hanging. Since Legato is the only way for us to interface with their backup site, the Legato SQL Agent puts a real huge toll on our database, and I'm looking for options (and assigning BIG points for this).
Anyways, as I understand it the native SQL backup utility isn't enough, because it doesn't allow us to restore a single table but rather, the entire database. I'm not a DBA, so I can't speak to the truth of this but I would like to have some information to bring to my boss to get an alternative solution, because Legato hangs constantly and we can't be without some of our DBs, they are the core of our business.
I would appreciate, given our situation, a proper backup strategy for databases. We have a DBA here as well but I just want to get independant answers without involving him (thus tainting my question) and then discuss it with him to come up with the best solution we can present to the boss. Keep in mind, doing our own tape backups is rather impossible because we are limited to the rack space we have and getting tape libraries to back up all of our databases, and additionally worry about tape swaps and off site storage -- this is all taken care of us for by the NOC.
I would really appreciate any help you folks can give.
Thanks!
I'm the sysadmin for my company, and we host most of our production servers at an external NOC. This NOC does our backups on a separate network using Legato.
Many times a backup job for a not so huge database takes over 10 hours -- much longer than it should. I believe it's because it is hanging. Since Legato is the only way for us to interface with their backup site, the Legato SQL Agent puts a real huge toll on our database, and I'm looking for options (and assigning BIG points for this).
Anyways, as I understand it the native SQL backup utility isn't enough, because it doesn't allow us to restore a single table but rather, the entire database. I'm not a DBA, so I can't speak to the truth of this but I would like to have some information to bring to my boss to get an alternative solution, because Legato hangs constantly and we can't be without some of our DBs, they are the core of our business.
I would appreciate, given our situation, a proper backup strategy for databases. We have a DBA here as well but I just want to get independant answers without involving him (thus tainting my question) and then discuss it with him to come up with the best solution we can present to the boss. Keep in mind, doing our own tape backups is rather impossible because we are limited to the rack space we have and getting tape libraries to back up all of our databases, and additionally worry about tape swaps and off site storage -- this is all taken care of us for by the NOC.
I would really appreciate any help you folks can give.
Thanks!
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
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>Is that RETRY setting and TIMEOUT value set on the SQL server, or on the Legato server?
that are settings on the client definition for the backup.
that are settings on the client definition for the backup.
ASKER
Okay I'm in the networker Administrator... can you walk me thru where I might find these settings? I looked under "Manage Clients" but found no settings like those you mentioned.
first, what version do you have?
do you have activated to see the advanced settings in the options menu (need to reconnect after changing that setting).
Actually, the retry is in the group, not the client (sorry for that). I don't work with the settings every day...
do you have activated to see the advanced settings in the options menu (need to reconnect after changing that setting).
Actually, the retry is in the group, not the client (sorry for that). I don't work with the settings every day...
ASKER
Networker Administrator
Version 7.1.2.Build.325
What we have installed is NetWorker Administrator, Networker User, and Networker User for SQL Server.
I still don't see those settings under the 'group' but like I said, most of this is managed by the NOC... should I just request they fix that on their end?
Also, any other advice as far as backups go? The file backups work fine, I was thinking for Legato to do backups of the .BAK files that the SQL Server does, but I'm not sure... we can't restore a single table that way. True or not?
Thanks again!
Version 7.1.2.Build.325
What we have installed is NetWorker Administrator, Networker User, and Networker User for SQL Server.
I still don't see those settings under the 'group' but like I said, most of this is managed by the NOC... should I just request they fix that on their end?
Also, any other advice as far as backups go? The file backups work fine, I was thinking for Legato to do backups of the .BAK files that the SQL Server does, but I'm not sure... we can't restore a single table that way. True or not?
Thanks again!
>I was thinking for Legato to do backups of the .BAK files that the SQL Server does, but I'm not sure... we can't restore a single table that way. True or not?
true, but you cannot restore a single table in the sql agent neither.
>I still don't see those settings under the 'group' but like I said
did you set the show hidden settings already?
true, but you cannot restore a single table in the sql agent neither.
>I still don't see those settings under the 'group' but like I said
did you set the show hidden settings already?
ASKER
Which hidden settings are these?
And what do you mean you cant restore a single table with the sql agent? Can you go a bit more in depth? I would be more comfortable switching off to Legato backing up the full SQL native .bak backups.. anything wrong with that, as opposed to using the SQL Agent to do the backups?
Thanks again!
And what do you mean you cant restore a single table with the sql agent? Can you go a bit more in depth? I would be more comfortable switching off to Legato backing up the full SQL native .bak backups.. anything wrong with that, as opposed to using the SQL Agent to do the backups?
Thanks again!
>And what do you mean you cant restore a single table with the sql agent?
correct. I explained above already (see filegroups)
I do prefer the combined method: have both legato perform the full backup online, plus the backup to disk.
correct. I explained above already (see filegroups)
I do prefer the combined method: have both legato perform the full backup online, plus the backup to disk.
ASKER
So using the Legato agent, there's no way to restore a single table? (Sorry for the repetition... just trying to understand). If that's the case, what is the point of doing a SQL Agent backup versus backing up the native SQL .BAK file?
And I still haven't found those 'hidden' settings...
Thanks!
And I still haven't found those 'hidden' settings...
Thanks!
>So using the Legato agent, there's no way to restore a single table? (Sorry for the repetition... just trying to understand). If that's the case, what is the point of doing a SQL Agent backup versus backing up the native SQL .BAK file?
well, doing a backup to .bak and then a backup to tape requires additional space on the server itself, and requires additional IO on the server, which is to be avoided on some environments.
>And I still haven't found those 'hidden' settings...
in the legato OPTIONS, click "CUSTOMIZE"
in the windows configuration, ensure the "display hidden attributes" is checked
if it was not checked, check it, close and reopen the legato administrator
in the group, choose to Edit.
the settings are
"Client Retries" -> should be 0
"Inactivity timeout" -> should be a high value, like 120 (minutes)
well, doing a backup to .bak and then a backup to tape requires additional space on the server itself, and requires additional IO on the server, which is to be avoided on some environments.
>And I still haven't found those 'hidden' settings...
in the legato OPTIONS, click "CUSTOMIZE"
in the windows configuration, ensure the "display hidden attributes" is checked
if it was not checked, check it, close and reopen the legato administrator
in the group, choose to Edit.
the settings are
"Client Retries" -> should be 0
"Inactivity timeout" -> should be a high value, like 120 (minutes)
ASKER
Won't a retry of 0 give us crap backups constantly though?
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
ASKER
Okay I am displaying hidden attributes.... I find nothing under any field ... I clicked NetWorker Groups - Manage Groups, and there's no option for client retries. Same under Client Operations - Manage Clients.
Thanks for any more help!
Thanks for any more help!
>Won't a retry of 0 give us crap backups constantly though?
no. actually, for online backups the retry value should be always 0, because those online modules don't usually implement the retry.
no. actually, for online backups the retry value should be always 0, because those online modules don't usually implement the retry.
ASKER
Any documentation that could verify that as far as the retry value?
And I still can't find that setting, as I mentioned just now :)
And I still can't find that setting, as I mentioned just now :)
did you restart the legato administrator?
ASKER
Yes, I did. Nothing that I could see.
Well, Possibly you don't have the permissions to see those settings anyway.
As I never used the security settings of legato, I don't know about how far that could apply
As I never used the security settings of legato, I don't know about how far that could apply
ASKER
That is likely it then... I will check with the backup engineers who monitor our servers and see what they have to say about it.
Thanks again, you win the points :)
Thanks again, you win the points :)
ASKER
Thanks!