Solved

NETWARE SERVER BACKUP

Posted on 2006-06-12
22
1,063 Views
Last Modified: 2009-07-14
I HAVE FOUR INDIVIDUAL SITES RUNNING NETWARE 6.5 ON EACH SERVER.  I AM BACKING UP ALL THE DATA USING TAPEWARE VER 7.0 AND THAT IS ALL WORKING FINE, BUT WHAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH, IT WILL TAKE FAR TOO MUCH TIME TO REBUILD THE SYSTEMS.  EACH SERVER IS ALL BY ITSELF AND ARE APPROACHING 4-5 YEARS OLD, SO THERE IS NO REDUNDANCY.

WHAT IS CONSIDERED TO BE THE PREFERRED METHOD OF BACKING UP THESE SERVERS?

CAN I IMAGE THEM?  SHOULD I SET UP A SIMPLE BACKUP SERVER SO I DON'T LOSE ALL THE NDS OBJECTS(TWO SERVERS ARE AT SCHOOLS WITH MANY USERS)?  SHOULD I LOOK AT TAPEWARES DISASTER RECOVERY SOFTWARE?

A SECOND SERVER SEEMS TO BE THE BEST SOLUTION ESPECIALLY SINCE I WOULD LIKE TO MIGRATE THEM TO SUSE LINUX EVENTUALLY.  CAN I SET UP THE SECOND ONE TO MIRROR THE FIRST ON CONSTANTLY OR AT LEAST DAILY?
0
Comment
Question by:goeden
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • +2
22 Comments
 
LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
Comment Utility
Watch the ALL CAPS. Most folx equate that with the electronic equivalent of shouting, and not too many people are disposed to help people who shout at them. Turn off the CAPS LOCK key.

NetWare v6.5 comes with a 2-node Cluster Services license included. You can set up an infinite number of 2-node clusters, if you want, at no additional charge. Your only costs are the hardware infrastructure to do it (you'll need some sort of shared disk media, in addition to the second server). Since the hardware doesn't have to be identical, you can use Clustering as a way to introduce a hardware refesh.

As for how to back up, any Storage Management Services (SMS) -compliant backup software should be just fine. I'm not familiar with Tapeware, nor do I know if v7.0 is SMS-compliant. Ask the manufacturer.

eDirectory is easily made redundant by having 2 or 3 Replicas of each Partition. If you only have a single Partition, then just made sure you have a Master and at least one Read/Write Replica of it.
0
 
LVL 19

Expert Comment

by:billmercer
Comment Utility
Tapeware was probably an unfortunate choice of name...
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapeware

0
 
LVL 35

Expert Comment

by:ShineOn
Comment Utility
I would scrap Tapeware.  (No, PsiCop, it's not SMS-compliant.)  It is a simple file backup that doesn't use the Novell TSA's, so you 1) don't have a backup of your eDirectory database(s) and 2) don't have a backup of your filesystem trustee assignments and name spaces.  You'd be better off using Novell's Sbackup.nlm.

If you don't have a single tree, but have a tree on each server, I question the design of the network in addition to the use of Tapeware.

If you want to image them, then you could do so, using a product like Portlock, I imagine.  I wouldn't use Ghost, personally, since it's not made for imaging NetWare servers...

I'd suggest you upgrade to OES to ease the migration from the NetWare kernel to Linux - you'd retain the familiar, powerful and secure services you're (presumably) familiar with, as only Novell can provide, while gaining the power and flexibility of SuSE Linux at the core.   However, if you're treating your NetWare servers as standalone units and have not leveraged and will not leverage eDirectory or the eDirectory-based services, then that's moot.
0
 
LVL 19

Expert Comment

by:billmercer
Comment Utility
Tapeware is basically the same product as NovaNet, which I once evaluated and decided not to use. In addition to the lack of TSA support, another problem I had with it was slow performance. So I'm back to using Backup Exec. Basically, it's the least dreadful option available to me at a price I can justify. I would grudgingly recommend you try the 60 day evaluation of 9.2.
0
 

Author Comment

by:goeden
Comment Utility
Sorry about the caps.

I must clarify a few things 1)I am using Netware 6.5 OES, so migration should be better.  2) I have discussed the backup of the eDirectory with Yosemite and they indicated that it would backup the database, I had my doubts but at a recent Novell seminar two seperate users had failures and were able to restore eDirectory from there Tapeware backups without a problem. 3) Each of the servers are on different trees because each server was set up for a different business.  Two are at schools and two are accounting firms and that is why they don't share the same tree.

Tapeware has been slow, but the budgets do not allow for investments in new software at this time.  When the time does come to upgrade I would like to have as much info as possible, that's why I am asking for experts opinions.  So I really appreciate the input.

I have been reading about better migrations to Linux by use of a Swing Server or a second server to move everything to before reformatting old system.  Does that look like a good way to go?

If I set up a second server how difficult is it to make copies of the eDirectory and if I copy the data over how can I keep it sychronized?
0
 
LVL 35

Expert Comment

by:ShineOn
Comment Utility
Since you're on OES, I second PsiCop's recommendation to use the free, included, 2-node clustering.  The cluster services in OES allow you to have a 2-node failover cluster with one node being on the NetWare kernel and the other node on the SLES kernel.

The new migration-target box can be an OES/Linux box.  You just have to have shared disk between them, which can be done in several ways.

How to do it:  (highly simplified)
Step 1: Get the shareable disk device in place, attached to the OES/NetWare server, and migrate the user-data volume(s) to the shared pool you create on the shareable disk device.
Step 2: Cluster it with OES/Linux on the new server hardware, also connected to the new shared pool.

Once that's working, you can fail over to the OES/Linux box, remove the old NetWare node from the tree, and install OES/Linux on it as a failover node (why waste the hardware?)

Shareable disk can be a NAS device (not necessarily recommended) or a SAN device (recommended) but could also be a multi-channel SCSI-attached drive "can", IIRC.  A SAN can be done "on-the-cheap" using iSCSI on its own, separate Gigabit Ethernet network, rather than using FC.
0
 

Author Comment

by:goeden
Comment Utility
Does the clustering of the two Servers automatically take care of backing up the eDirectory and synchronizing the data?

How do I set up 2-node clustering?

Can I do the SAN by just taking a Windows box and sharing the drive to move the user-data volume to HDD?  Does it need to be SCSI?

I have a spare server(old Windows NT Server) that I would like to load OES/Linux on, move everything to, reformat and reload OES/Linux on old box, then keep the spare Server as a clustered backup.  The other hardware I have on hand is a windows XP Pro PC with 80GB drive.  Will these suffice?

0
 
LVL 19

Expert Comment

by:billmercer
Comment Utility
According to Yosemite's site, their current offering is now Backup Standard 8.1. They're not calling it Tapeware anymore. This could be purely marketing, or it could indicate new capabilities for the product. I dunno.

>Can I do the SAN by just taking a Windows box and sharing the drive to move the user-data volume to HDD?
Yikes, no!

A SAN is not just a shared volume, it's a hardware/software combo that provides reliable, redundant storage to a local network by sending low-level commands over high-performance connections, usually fiber optics. With a SAN, the communication between the server and the storage device happens at a lower level, blocks and tracks, rather than at a high level. Imagine having really long SCSI cables that allow more than one computer to connect to the same drive. (Not really, but that gives you the rough idea.) Even "cheap" SAN appliances are not what I'd consider cheap, and I suspect ShineOn's idea of "on the cheap" may still be pricier than you expect.

Based on your description of re-using old hardware, I'm guessing you don't have a huge budget, so I'd suggest you forget about SANs and clustering, and think in terms of simply mirroring your files to a backup server. Just having a second server in the tree gives you redundancy for edir and authentication, and it's not hard to set up a login script so that it maps drive letters based on your login server.
 
> Does it need to be SCSI?
SCSI is still considered more reliable though SATA drives are gaining ground. But it does need to be better than plain old desktop drives.

>The other hardware I have on hand is a windows XP Pro PC with 80GB drive.  Will these suffice?
For just storing backup copies of files, maybe, but I'd be wary of using a workstation as a production server.
0
 
LVL 35

Accepted Solution

by:
ShineOn earned 250 total points
Comment Utility
It's a high-availability solution, not a backup solution.

The data exists on the shared pool, so there isn't really "synchronizing" that has to take place.  A replica of the eDirectory partition(s) would be on both servers in the cluster, so you'd have eDirectory redundancy.

I don't think you can share-for-clustering a direct-attached drive - it has to be something that more than one machine can attach to, AFAIK.  I think I was incorrect suggesting you could use a NAS or mult-channel SCSI-attached device, though.

For more information on Cluster Services, see the docs: http://www.novell.com/documentation/oes/index.html

Look at "infrastructure services."  The sections in there that pertain to clustering include: Clustering & Failover, File Systems and Storage, and iSCSI.

They seem to indicate that you can cluster servers without sharing disk, but I fail to see the benefit, since it's tough to do real-time synchronization unless you get yet another 3rd-party product, which means you don't get high-availability.

Now, if you want to just set up that Windoze box as an OES/Linux box, with NSS support, you should be able to use the Server Consolidation Utility to migrate the data.

There are other migration options available, many of which are mentioned in the documentation available at the link I provided.
0
 
LVL 35

Expert Comment

by:ShineOn
Comment Utility
I mention migrating the data, because if you just copy it, you lose the trustee rights assignments and ACL-type stuff, along with the multiple namespaces.
0
 
LVL 30

Expert Comment

by:pgm554
Comment Utility
If you are looking for an image based solution for disaster recovery,I would look at Portlock Storage Manager.

www.portlock.com

As for NAS ,you can use it as long as it supports the iSCSI protocol as a target.

The Adaptec SNAP servers have this built in along with a subset of  a snapsot backup product using Guardian OS(Linux)
You supply the tape drive.

Nice product,goosd support.

http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/etherstor/snap/
0
Why You Should Analyze Threat Actor TTPs

After years of analyzing threat actor behavior, it’s become clear that at any given time there are specific tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTPs) that are particularly prevalent. By analyzing and understanding these TTPs, you can dramatically enhance your security program.

 
LVL 30

Expert Comment

by:pgm554
Comment Utility
Just a thought,since they have NW 6.5 OES,using Branch Manager(included for free), requires no local backup and is easy to recover from a disaster standpoint might fit the bill.

They would need a decent set of pipes between the schools( I know of very few schools that don't have some sort of high speed internet connection these days),but it could make sense in this type of scenario.
0
 

Author Comment

by:goeden
Comment Utility
From BillMercer:

>Based on your description of re-using old hardware, I'm guessing you don't have a huge budget, so I'd suggest you forget about SANs and clustering, and think in terms of simply mirroring your files to a backup server. Just having a second server in the tree gives you redundancy for edir and authentication, and it's not hard to set up a login script so that it maps drive letters based on your login server.<

I think that with the budget I'm dealing with, this sounds like the best solution for me.  Can the second server be OES/Linux?   My main concern is the eDirectory and authentication, since the schools have upwards of 250 user objects.  I will probably use my old Compaq Proliant(Windows NT) to set up an OES/Linux to temporarily mirror the Primary Server then Migrate over when I've done more research.  Then I will reload the existing Primary Server to OES/Linux and once again retire the Compaq Server to backing up the eDirectory.

If I set up the OES/Linux Server and join the tree does it automatically replicate the eDirectory?

What do I need to do to get it to mirror the Primary Server?
0
 
LVL 35

Expert Comment

by:ShineOn
Comment Utility
The Branch Manager product is based on rsync, but I don't know that it does trustees.

There's a product I was planning to test but never got around to, that does a lot more than just sync, and it's not free.  It's Taskmaster from Avanti, http://www.avanti-tech.com

They have a "lite" version that probably will do what you want, for not too many dollars.  

Problem is, it works with OES, but on the NetWare kernel only.  I checked on their site, and V5, which is due any day now, is supposed to be based on POSIX instead of the old NLM API's, and the following release, which in 2005 was expected by the end of 2006, was supposed to support OES/Linux.  I suppose if they're behind of releasing v5, v6 won't be 'til next year, but they don't say.  You could post a pre-sales question without signing up for anything, if you like.
0
 
LVL 19

Assisted Solution

by:billmercer
billmercer earned 250 total points
Comment Utility
>If I set up the OES/Linux Server and join the tree does it automatically replicate the eDirectory?

Pretty much.... When you add the second server, you'll have to make it a replica, probably a read/write replica.

I've never done this with OES/Linux, so I don't know if there's anything special you need to do, but given how easy it is with Netware, I can't imagine it being too difficult.

If all you want is a plain backup, you could simply run a batch file on a nightly schedule that uses NCOPY to copy the whole file system to the backup machine.
0
 

Author Comment

by:goeden
Comment Utility
I don't know much about running batch files, will need to do more research.  This sounds like a good solution for my budget.

Thanks for all the help!
0
 
LVL 19

Expert Comment

by:billmercer
Comment Utility
> I don't know much about running batch files, will need to do more research.  
That part's not too difficult. You create a text file that contains commands, and when you "run" the batch file, it executes the commands in the file as if you had typed them in at a command prompt.
You might not even need to use a batch file, depending on your volumes and file structures.

For example, to copy the VOL1: volume from one server to the other, you could type something like this at a command prompt:
  ncopy \\MainServer\Vol1\*.* \\BackupServer\Vol1 /s /e

You'll need a user account with sufficient rights to log into both servers and access all the files and folders you want to copy.
Create a text file with the required commands to copy each volume.
Set up a scheduled task on a secure workstation that will execute your batch file workstation that logs into both servers with enough rights to access all the files you want copied.

0
 

Author Comment

by:goeden
Comment Utility
I have not done scheduled tasks before, are you refferring to vb scripts on the workststion? I am just starting to learn a little about that, I have set up chron jobs in Linux but I no very little about vb scripts.

I really appreciate everyone's help on this, I am a struggling tech who is trying to learn as much as I can on my own and it is really nice to be able to get some guidence from experts in the field.
0
 
LVL 19

Expert Comment

by:billmercer
Comment Utility
Schedule tasks don't really relate to VBScript particularly. They're sort of like cron jobs for Windows, but instead of setting up a crontab file, you use a GUI wizard to create the tasks. In the start menu, look for accessories|system tools|Scheduled Tasks.

If you're more comfortable with using cron, you might want to download this free cron daemon for Windows, nnCron Lite
http://www.nncron.ru/
It's much smaller and more efficient than the Windows Task Scheduler, though not as user friendly.

0
 

Author Comment

by:goeden
Comment Utility
Very useful info thanks again.  I appreciate not being beat up for not knowing seemingly simple things.
0
 
LVL 30

Expert Comment

by:pgm554
Comment Utility
If you want a no brainer program that will copy files and trusttees on a schedule try Nick Paynes NWCOPY.
A no brainer.

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/tools/13674.html
0
 
LVL 35

Expert Comment

by:ShineOn
Comment Utility
I like the NWCOPY idea, since NCOPY won't copy trustees, just files and extended attributes.

NCOPY works much like XCOPY - they're both command-line tools that do recursive copying - but as I said just now, NCOPY also copies NetWare extended attributes - things like "don't compress" and "purge immediate" - that XCOPY won't.  But it doesn't copy trustee rights, just directories, files and attributes.

NWCOPY will copy the trustee info too.  Sort of like RSYNC with the switch that transfers the source's ACL info to the target.

As I said before, I don't know if trustees are handled with RSYNC yet - I kinda thought they were working on that - and that's what the Branch Office product uses to sync files between the remote site and the central site.  If you'd rather work with RSYNC, you can, but it's not directly supported by Novell outside the Branch Office product, which is not meant to sync between 2 local servers.

If you want to script something, since you've got NetWare 6.5/OES, you can use the BASH shell and write a BASH script if you so desire.  Since you have some Linux experience that may be more of a familiar-ground thing for you; then you could use a CRON-driven RSYNC command, along with something to transfer the trustee info, which I think would be available from the BASH shell, too.  I don't recall offhand what Branch Office uses to transfer trustee info, but that's a possibility.

Or, you can do it from a workstation using NWCOPY.
0

Featured Post

How your wiki can always stay up-to-date

Quip doubles as a “living” wiki and a project management tool that evolves with your organization. As you finish projects in Quip, the work remains, easily accessible to all team members, new and old.
- Increase transparency
- Onboard new hires faster
- Access from mobile/offline

Join & Write a Comment

Suggested Solutions

Title # Comments Views Activity
Novell Netware 5.1 Server IP 3 891
Ldap, AD speed scanner 4 436
Novell 4.1 data 6 277
Replicate files using Rsync 5 328
This article will show you how to create an ISO CD-ROM/DVD-ROM image (*.iso), and MD5 checksum signature, for use with VMware vSphere Hypervisor 6.5 (ESXi 6.5). It's a good idea to compare checksums, because many installations fail because of a corr…
HOW TO: Upload an ISO image to a VMware datastore for use with VMware vSphere Hypervisor 6.5 (ESXi 6.5) using the vSphere Host Client, and checking its MD5 checksum signature is correct.  It's a good idea to compare checksums, because many installat…
Sending a Secure fax is easy with eFax Corporate (http://www.enterprise.efax.com). First, Just open a new email message.  In the To field, type your recipient's fax number @efaxsend.com. You can even send a secure international fax — just include t…
This video explains how to create simple products associated to Magento configurable product and offers fast way of their generation with Store Manager for Magento tool.

743 members asked questions and received personalized solutions in the past 7 days.

Join the community of 500,000 technology professionals and ask your questions.

Join & Ask a Question

Need Help in Real-Time?

Connect with top rated Experts

15 Experts available now in Live!

Get 1:1 Help Now