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Point to point T1 CRC errors

Hi

We have a new installation of a t1 line. I am using external CSU/DSU with cisco 1600 and 3600 router on each end. Framing and line coding is SF/AMI and clocking is internal. I have setup the clock to internal on one CSU/DSU and external on other. I am able to connect the two sites but getting very poor performance and lots of CRC errors.
This setup is for testing only. Ultimately I have to use the T1 CSU/DSU WIC in the 1600 router. Can somebody help me. Its urgent.

Thank you
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knightrider2k2
Asked:
knightrider2k2
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1 Solution
 
prashsaxCommented:
It could be not from your side but from telcos end.

Ask your telcos to check the link, they can do the loopback test from their site to your site.

Just put your link on loopback and ask them to test the line.

They will tell you the correct procedure.

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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
Knight;

The telco usually supplies clock unless specified otherwise, I would check that and make a loopback plug to test against.  The clocking is going to be an issue you will get clock slip everyonce in a while if there are 2 clocks on the line which would make the circuit work but poorly... what is the distiance between the 2 sites?

Thanks
Scott
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
-Scott
Clock is not provided by telco. the physical distance between the sites is around 10-15 miles. Can you tell me if I have to provide clock on both CSU/DSU  or only on one?

Thank you  
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
there should only be one clock on a circuit .... the CSU should provide the Clock without a problem.  I would then create a lookback plug and run traffic to it see if you still get CRC's if not then it is the Telco

a loop plug is pin 1 crossed to pin 4 and pin 2 crossed to pin 5 and then ping something on the far side you won't get a reasponce but you will get errors if any of your hardware or cabling is bad.

Thanks
Scott
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livedrive777Commented:
Your clock settings should only be provided by one side, the telco can provide it and while that may be more common it certainly isn't always that way.  If they don't provide it then one or the other side of the connection should provide it exactly as you have it setup.  If the clock settings were not correct; however, you wouldn't see CRC errors I don't believe, but rather you wouldn't be able to establish a connection at all and the line protocol on your router would show up as being down.

There are a lot of different causes for CRC errors, including a problem on the line from the Telco, but also duplex mismatches on the router or something like that.
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
Livedrive77,

You can still connect with 2 clocks I have seen it done.... there are problems when it happens.  I have also seen it were it will connect with no clock work for a short time and then the line will drop.

Knight
how many carrier transitions do you have in the serial interface?

Thanks
Scott

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livedrive777Commented:
Scotty, I'll defer to your opinion on that then.  Anytime I've had to bring up new Ts I've always seen the behavior described in my comment, but that is certainly not an exhaustive cross section of experience...
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
Hi Livedrive

I am sorry but how do I check this.
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
I am sorry I mean Scott
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
You look into the router and if it is serial 0 you would do a show int s0 or show int s0/x or however it is described, it will be one of the very last stats that the display kicks out.

Thanks
Scott
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
does the line stay up for long periods then drop once and come right back up?  if so this is common of clock slip.

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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
-scott

I just cleard the counters. I have 3 crc 0 frame and 0 carrier trans on local router. And 2 crc 3 frame and 0 carrier on remote router.

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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
yes the line stays up for a while and then drops and again comes up.
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
this is a clock issue I am almost certain of it... have you involved the TELCO and verified with them?  I would again check with the telco and make sure they are not providing the clock... I know it sounds crazy but TELCO's are weird and a tech may have been looking at things and said hey a circuit with no clock and threw up a clock source.

Thanks
scott
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
Get the teclo involved ASAP that is what you pay them for ...
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
Now I have 20 crc 47 frame and 2 carrier transition on remote and 2 crc 0 frame and 0 carier on local
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
I have the telco doing the tests and I have confirmed with them that the clock is not provided by them.
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
what about the cabling from the CSU to the DMARC have you put a loopback plug into the CSU and seen if the errors continue.  At the rate your seeing them it would not take long to tell.

Thanks
scott
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
I don't know how to do a loopback. There is a loopbk button on the csu/dsu. The CRC on local are not increasing now but they are increasing on the remote router along with the frame errors. How do I do a loopbk on remote router?
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
you have to be at the remote side or have a CSU that is remotely managed....  To make a hard loopback take a RJ45 plug and one pair of cable from standard ethernet put one end into pin 1 and 2 the other end of the cable reverse the pin 1 to pin 4 and reverse the pin 2 to pin 5.

Thanks
Scott
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
http://www.ossmann.com/5-in-1.html check this out for a loopback plug picture.

Thanks
Scott
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
scott

I did the loopback button on the csu/dsu. I got no CRC but got 20 carrier transitions.
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
did you run traffic to it?  When you did a show int s0/x did it say up and up (looped)

thanks
scott
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
yes it said

line protocol is down (looped)
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
are you using HDLC or PPP as the line encapsualtion?  and this must be the side with no clock in the CSU right?

Thanks
Scott
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
and I just pingged the remote router
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
I am using PPP on both ends and yes this(local) side is the one with no clock
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
ok that would explain the line up protocol down.... so you ping the remote router with the CSU in loopback and get no errors but line transitions?  I would still recomend using a loopback plug in the CSU or in the TELCO DMARC to test with this eliminates the cabling between the CSU and the TELCO and puts the burden squarely on them.

Thanks
Scott
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
Scott
 I have a rj45 female jack. which pins should I punch?
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
Ok I have connected 1-4 2-5 and router is saying looped. I am pinging the remote router.
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
Scott

It is the same result. No CRC but Carrier transitions. I am going to the remote site to do similar tests. What do I do if I am getting no CRC in loopback and if I am getting errors in loopback.

Thank you
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prashsaxCommented:
I don't think you will get any CRC errors with this loopback.

With this your are testing your router.

CRC problem occurs due to problems in the last mile connections(mostly).

You need to ask your telcos to put your link on loop from his side.

Then, you need to check it for CRC errors.

This is how a link is given to you by telcos.

Router--------------------------Telco------------------------------------Telco------------------------Router
Site-1                                   T1                                                 T2                                Site2

Now, you need to check the connection betwenn T1-Site1 and T2-Site2.

Telco to Telco will never cause the CRC errors.


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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
With the loopback what you are trying to prove is that the CSU and all the cabling up to the TELCO DMARC is good that is all you want to accomplish if you can do that then it is up to the TELCO to fix the problem.

Thanks
scott
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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
Thank you guys. I am going to the remote site for testing and will be back again:)

Thank you
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GizmoKidCommented:
Ok knightrider2k2
Please Check Earthing at both ends, I think the power supply which you are provinding to both router doesn't have proper earthing thats why you are receiving so many CRC error, correct your earthing then clear the counter on routers & monitor it. Your CRC errors will not come then.

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knightrider2k2Author Commented:
Hi Guys

It was clocking. According to Cisco

"If you are attempting serial connections at speeds greater than 64 kbps with a CSU/DSU that does not support SCTE, you might have to invert the transmit clock on the router. Inverting the transmit clock compensates for phase shifts between the data and clock signals."

Thanks for all your help.
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Scotty_ciscoCommented:
YES!!! glad it is fixed .... I have some experiance with the same issue and the way we used to mux a 64K channel so that is why I was pretty sure that was causing this issue.

Thanks
scott
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