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Using "Domain" as a Workgroup name

Posted on 2006-06-18
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Last Modified: 2007-09-11
Hi experts,

Situation: Network with a server running Win2K Advanced Server + 6 workstations (1 x Win98, 1 x Win2K, 4 X XP Pro). The router is connected to the internet.

The server seems to be a domain controller, but I couldn't find any reference to a domain name, except CieName.local.

3 workstations (All XPs) belong to a workgroup named MSHOME , the others to a workgroup called DOMAIN (Note: I didn't check Win98).

Win Explorer (In XP) shows the 2 workgroups, the server belonging to DOMAIN.
Net view shows all computers in the workgroup the machine belongs to.
I can ping by IP or name within a workgroup.

My 1st question: Is DOMAIN a special/reserved name for a workgroup?

I want to connect a XP Pro laptop to the network.

If I attach it to the DOMAIN workgroup, I can net view and ping (Name & IP) all machines in DOMAIN. But I CANNOT ping the router or access its configuration, CANNOT map a drive on the server, CANNOT access the Internet.

When I attach it to the MSHOME workgroup (My Computer/Properties/Computer name), I have full access to everything, including all the server files!

Second question is: What gives?

Third question: Is there an easy way to correct the situation (I don't think having so easy access to server files is very healthy)?

Would you require more info, please note that I have very limited access to the other machines. I would certainly appreciate to be given a shopping list, but even more if you could add to it some possible answers. I understand it might not be that easy. You might however KISS, since this network set up doesn't strike me as being very sophisticated.

Thank you.
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Question by:Grizzly072000
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15 Comments
 
LVL 30

Expert Comment

by:ded9
ID: 16931890
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LVL 27

Expert Comment

by:Nopius
ID: 16932098
> My 1st question: Is DOMAIN a special/reserved name for a workgroup?
No

> But I CANNOT ping the router or access its configuration
that's not a domain or workgroup name problem, but laptop  IP/default GW/netmask problem

> But I CANNOT ping the router or access its configuration, CANNOT map a drive on the server, CANNOT access the Internet.
Probably you have  misconfigured IP/netmask

> When I attach it to the MSHOME workgroup (My Computer/Properties/Computer name), I have full access to everything, including all the server files!
Is it the only change? Do you have DHCP address or static IP?

> Second question is: What gives?
It gives the ability to browse network without specifying workgroup name.

> Third question: Is there an easy way to correct the situation (I don't think having so easy access to server files is very healthy)?
Yes. Use the ONLY domain name (workgroup name) for all stations/routers/...
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Expert Comment

by:pulp999
ID: 16932099
1st question: NO
2nd question: not sure what you mean; are the networks the same for both Workgroups? what are the Subnet masks?
3rd question: unless you need seperate Workgroups only use one; if the XP machines logins are correctly configured on the server access should be easy from your inside network but very secure from the outside world....
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LVL 30

Expert Comment

by:ded9
ID: 16932117
1. Your client pcs are set to workgroup model.
Domain and workgroup are totally differnt
2. In domain mode all client pc connect to server

please read the article i have provided.

Also check this site to know more
www.wown.com
This is the best site with screenshots

Reps

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LVL 6

Author Comment

by:Grizzly072000
ID: 16936551
Thank you all for answering.

I guess I should have made myself a bit more clear.

2 ded9: I'm not ignorant enough about networking as to need such basics. However, I don't master the lingo ;-)

My problem is that I can't make much sense out of this particular set-up devised by some (self-proclaimed) expert.
We have a primary DC with only one registered computer on the server (Win98, I checked) and several registered users (some long gone) with all the same privileges (All default).
We have 2 workgroups, one called DOMAIN, as if the person who set up the network had thought that was the way to create a domain. The other called MSHOME, which is the home network wizard default name. Moreover, as far as I know, creating different workgroups could have real meaning under Win98, but not under 2K or XP.
No user apps are running on the server. Seems to me a lot of overhead (and $) just to authenticate some 8 'identical' active users and provide access to a HDD.

2 Nopius: The XP IP config is plain vanilla: auto IP, auto DNS, etc... Tell me how access can change just by joining a different workgroup. Seems to me that only the server (DC) could interfere. If I'm right, how?

> Use the ONLY domain name (workgroup name) for all stations/routers/
What is such name you are referring to? There are 3 contenders: DOMAIN, MSHOME, and (possibly) CieName.local.

2 pulp999: Both workgroups must be on the same subnet (255.255.255.0) since all IP configs are std/default/auto (Win98 wasn't checked, but appears under DOMAIN with NET VIEW or Network Neighbourhood).

Also, one of the XP computers belonging to MSHOME cannot access the Internet (ping others by name or IP: OK, ping router: OK, ping yahoo.com: Request timed out, and they don't block ping requests). Is it again a DC thing?
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Expert Comment

by:pulp999
ID: 16939296
Grizzly,
Unfortunately my chrystal ball is in for repair....we need more details to sort this out.
Who is the DHCP server? the Server or the router or both?
I assume the router (and I don't know what kind of router you have) is responsible for the internet access and therefore must be the gateway for ALL PCs to connect to the internet.
There is no default subnet mask, 255.255.255.0 is the default mask for a class C network starting with 192.168.... but how are we supposed to know that you are using that IP range? You could be using 10.0.0 in which case the default mask would be 255.0.0.0
You should check the config for all PCs especially the gateway by using ipconfig /all at the command prompt.
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Expert Comment

by:Nopius
ID: 16939372
> 2 Nopius: The XP IP config is plain vanilla: auto IP, auto DNS, etc... Tell me how access can change just by joining a different workgroup. Seems to me that only the server (DC) could interfere. If I'm right, how?
Very easy. Your XP sends NAME (short machine identifier) and FQDN (fully qualified domain name of your machine) when it asks DHCP server for IP address. Now you can have two scenarious:
Suppose your workstation is called WS
1) You have TWO DHCP servers in your LAN (it may be router and server), and suppose server answeres to request ONLY when you have WS.DOMAIN in FQDN. Probably it provides incorrect gateway or netmask or whatever value.
2) You may have ONE DHCP server, replying differently depending on your FQDN.

To check is it true or not, try to do following:
1) Assign "DOMAIN" as a domain name, reboot machine, look for "ipconfig /all" and post results here
2) Do 1) with domain name "MSHOME" and also check "ipconfig /all"

Probably you will get different results when "autoassigning" IP/NetMask/DNS/GateWay/...
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Author Comment

by:Grizzly072000
ID: 16939476
2 pulp999: As far as I know, since IP & DNS addies are automatically obtained, every machine is supposed to be using the same gateway  (SMC router on 192.168.2.1) with the same mask (255.255.255.0).
IP addies start at 192.168.2.100. This is a guess, since I didn't have a chance to get at the router config, but that what's IPCONFIG reports.

2 Nopius: How could I find out if the server is also handling DHCP requests?
I didn't know a router could reply differently depending on your FQDN. I'm just familiar with home type ones.
IPCONFIG doesn't list FQDNames, but only Host Names, and doesn't even give you the workgroup.
Is Host Name the short machine identifier? How can I get the machine FQDN?
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Assisted Solution

by:Nopius
Nopius earned 200 total points
ID: 16939664
Grizzly: is it a secret to copy-paste your ifconfig /all here (both cases). FQDN is only one of possible 'selectors' when you can get different IP settings from DHCP.
It's setup in my computer -> properties -> Network identification, when you enter fqdn in 'name' field'. In that case client name attribute, sent to dhcp is a short name and FQDN is a long name.
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Expert Comment

by:pulp999
ID: 16939843
Grizzly, copy-paste your ifconfig /all for all your PCs here, otherwise we don't know what's going on....
If the gateway for ALL machines IS the router and the router is configured correctly ALL PCs disregardless of the WORKGROUP name should be able to access the internet.
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Author Comment

by:Grizzly072000
ID: 16940005
2 Nopius: I can't cut & paste anything of value since I'm not at the office (And won't be for a few days)
Still, is there any command that shows your FQDN?

2 pulp99: I fully agree with you. Now, all machines are connected to the router. How could the gateway change if automatic IP allocation is used? Can the DC interfere?

IPCONFIG /all is certainly very useful, but I'd like to have more commands on my shopping list.
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Expert Comment

by:pulp999
ID: 16940514
I don't know how everything is plugged into your hub; but  if your server is also a DHCP server you could have 2 different gateways auto-configured...if you could let us know how your network components are plugged together and the result of the ipconfigs for the PCs it should become clear where the problem is....
Does your server have 1 or 2 network cards?
Are ALL PCs straight connected to the same hub?
does your router connect straight to the hub?

cheers,

pulp
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LVL 6

Author Comment

by:Grizzly072000
ID: 16942035
No IPCONFIG available yet. Sorry...
All PCs (including server) are directly connected to the SMC router (I don't remember the exact model, but it's nothing fancy), router beging connected to the DSL modem. There is no hub. Even if the server has 2 NICs, only one is connected.
The router certainly provides DHCP services, since I got an IP when connecting a laptop (unknown to the server) configured for automatic IP.
If the server is also configured for DHCP, how could Win XP select to use it instead of the router if the PC is still configured for automatic IP?
Now, let's suppose I want to use DHCP service from the (Win 2K) server. How do I activate such service on the server? How can I force a PC to use the server and not the router? (I never thought about checking the connection parms on the server, so I can't tell you if it's using a static IP)
Could lousy wiring be responsible for my problems?

Thank you.
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Accepted Solution

by:
pulp999 earned 300 total points
ID: 16942281
Hi Grizzly,

I'm sure it's not lousy wiring..otherwise you'd get nothing.
Just because you get IP when connecting the laptop to the router doesn't mean it provides DHCP, it could be the server.
If you turn off (or unplug) the server from the router and you still automatically get a valid IP address, well, then the router has DHCP enabled.
Anyhow, we need to know what the router exactly does and how it is configured....find out the exact model, if it's managed or unmanaged, is there a http interface to configure the router or how is it done?
If you look under services in the server you will see if it provides DHCP, in my opinion if the router is providing DHCP the server should not. I have however seen scenarios where one DHCP server issued a range of addresses and a 2nd DHCP server a different range....
Anyhow, lets wait until we've seen the results of ipconfig /all for ALL PCs.

cheers,

pulp
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LVL 6

Author Comment

by:Grizzly072000
ID: 19873769
This is much too old. I don't work for the company anymore & don't even remember how I solved the problem.

2 pulp999: I hope you'll get your crystal ball fixed thx to the points...
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