A better Deal?

Any know a better deal?

Wooky JackAsked:
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where's the price LOL?

<Product models and specifications may vary depending on country. Please contact your local Acer office.>

Bet that includes price.

I don't know.  I haven't purchased my laptop yet (as in am about to) but when I do, it'll be my only computer as my current one is shit.  That's why I was completely freaking out price wise until I found sager, because since they start low, I could modify it until it had modifications that were what I wanted.

Not that you can't get low starting prices elsewhere (just walk into any best buy, circuit city, etc) and browse and they have all the companies you mention, and they start way below 1000, and sometimes with great specs, but with really crappy chips, or with ones I'd never even heard of.

I have a friend who a go to for random advice about stuff (because he just spews this stuff out, stuff you'd never think he'd know) and when I was talking about getting a laptop, he was able to tell me how hot the chips ran OFF THE TOP OF HIS HEAD.  from what he said, centrino runs the lowest and is perfect, and AMD runs just the tinniest bit over that.  I won't see him for a few days, but if you're interested in the actual numbers, I can get them when I see him.  (I tried to google but found other shit instead)

The only big difference between the two, since I think the heat one is negligible, is that the centrino was built for a laptop.


A couple things to watch out for, computers that give you 512MB installed in one of two memory slots, well, you're going to be spending money replacing it you want to upgrade at all, because you have 2 256MB sticks in there.

If you want to upgrade to 1 GB you can do it was 2 256 MB or 1 GB  but the thing has a potential for 2 GB
You may never need it or want it (ok, that's a lie, you will) but, if you do you're going to be spending and wasting a lot of money if you upgrade badly.  If you really only want 512 in there, ask for it to be one 512 card.  Because if you want to upgrade at all, you have a slot free and you're not automatically throwing away a 256 stick.  But, if you think it's at all possible that you're going to want more than a GB, you want to upgrade when you buy to 1 GB in one stick, leaving one slot open.  (again, a reason i like sager.  they build every computer as it's ordered, so upgraded at the time costs minimally)

Another thing.  Figure out what size hard drive you could ever possibly want.  Are you a photographer?  An artist?  A gamer?  Download thousands of songs?  Replacing a hard drive well, you cant just stick another in.  You can, quite easily usb an outside drive, but I really don't like that.  Ironically this is the reason that my laptop is going to have a much bigger hard drive than my desktop.  Course my desktop is five years old but thats not the point.

In the desktop v. laptop decision, keep these things in mind.

1.  It's much easier to get a good reliable cheap desktop than a good cheap laptop.

2.  It's much easier to get a good reliable cheap desktop than a working cheap laptop.

3.  It's much easier to get a good reliable cheap desktop than a barely working but just reliable enough that you can use it laptop.

4.  Desktops you can buy small and upgrade.  You can buy additional hard drives and stick em in.  You can buy extra bells and whistles and stick em in.  You can buy more memory and stick it in.  Laptops, the deed is pretty much done.

I didn't look at every product on acer, but i noticed they were putting celeron's in their laptops.  See?  That's exactly what I mean?

Also, on the Travel Mate c200, they're even worse fuckers:

Intel® Pentium® M (up to 2.13 GHz, 533 MHz FSB) or Celeron® M (up to 1.60 GHz, 400 MHz FSB) processor

You may buy it because you think you're getting Intel P 2.13 GHz, but whoops, we gave you Celeron 1.60 GHz

And it doesn't say, a choice, though maybe it is, on other models, they say "a choice of"

maybe you have to specify one when you order it, or maybe they work on comission and they tell the person that celeron is the worse processor, or maybe they don't and they say, well, "it is just a little slower then, but they're all so fast nowadays it only matters if you use it for this" and then the person likes the salesperson because they saved them so much money and comes back

And don't be fooled by Pentium M, it's just P4 in a laptop.

"A choice of Intel® Pentium® M processors gives even the most CPU-intensive games faster, more robust performance."
Yes, until you're laptop blows up and you decide intensity isn't for you.

No, the ones that used good chips looked fine, just no prices.  It looked like you had to select you're country from the dropdown menu and then make choices (like which chip etc) before you got a price, but when I selected a country, I got a page could not be found error, so no help there.  Also, it's very annoying that they don't even give you a starting at price.  I realize it ranges drastically in the various countries, but maybe before you enter the site, you could choose what country you were in and then browsed.  Unlike all those rich people in Africa, price is the major consideration for most when buying a computer.  Honestly!

Toshiba:  I didn't see anything under 1000 that had the right kind of cpu.  Now, I'll give toshiba credit, they're the only company I've seen so far that really lets you do the entire computer yourself, down to the color you get, and the cpu.  But, the made you pay for the CPU.  And the color, which makes me think that customizing in and of itself costs money.  As in the cpu may not cost that much, but they're charging you more per customization or something, which is odd when you they let you customize that much.  normally companies let you customize a little (meaning it costs a lot as the computers already part built and stuff gets added, or the computers fully built and stuff gets taken out and changed) or companies let you go hog wild.  Few companies do the later, and most of those build it when you order it.  As a rule.  Other companies will let you build your own, but its very expensive to do so.  But the companies I'm talking about, that's how their computers are made, whether or not you customize.  The majority of their customers, or enough, customize enough that that's what they're process is.  Customizing at these companies is much cheaper.  Often you pay what they pay for the parts, because the labor costs are already in the base price of the computer.  This is a good way to get things cheaper, because they buy wholesale.  So it's cheaper to upgrade your memory then, as it's being built, then to walk into even the cheapest store and buy some later.

Which is why Toshiba is confusing.  They let you customize a lot, but some of the prices seem a little high/strange.  Changing the color shouldn't cost, unless that color costs them more, or they're putting their labor costs into customization, or they're putting an extraneous chanrge on so that people who wouldn't change color otherwise don't and so that people who wouldn't customize otherwise, don't.

I again haven't looked at every computer on Toshiba, so if it's ppossible for you to get something cheap with a good chip, have at it.  But, I didn't see anything.  Also, remember that once you get to centrino chips there are differences too, so if you're going to get something at toshiba and upgrade to a centrino and you're wondering which one, look at this comparison chart at the bottom of the page:


Most companies when they put in chips and advertise up to 2.16 GHz, they're putting in the best one.  But, they all do run cool.

That chart by the way, doesn't cover the solo processors by core.  Ahh what the heck, I doubt you need this much info, but it's interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core.

That page also has direct links to intel at the bottom.

Ok, I've decided wikipedia is clearly the answer to everything.  I was wondering about this AMD chip that sager seems to fancy.  So of course wiki has an entire article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_64_X2

And, if you want a list of every AMD chip every made: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Athlon_XP_microprocessors

Of course the most interesting part is all of their lawsuits with intel, and the result of them:

Ok, probably waaaaaaaay, more information than you wanted, but better safe then sorry.  And I got very distracted by wiki.  Which tends to happen a lot.  Of course the fact that the public at large writes wiki and manages to in general do no evil and it works, is fascinating in and of itself.

Unless you look at the Bush entry.  *snicker*
Wooky JackAuthor Commented:
I'm not particularily interested in the software, but Dell automatically assigns it.
Erik BjersPrincipal Systems AdministratorCommented:
check out www.alienware.com
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Looks fairly good - If you are after office with your system, then it is cheaper if you get it bundled, rather than buying it later.

Generally, I'm very impressed with the Dell pricing. They are competitive, because they do not have all the expensive 'store-fronts' to maintain. Their service I've found to be fairly good. My only irritation is that the printers that they bundle with the 'deals' are Dell printers, and tie you into buying Dell ink...so after your cartridges are empty, consider going and buying a decent printer;)

Russell LuckCommented:
What country are you in.
I am in Australia and that looks fairly decent, although I don't really like media centre personally.
Dont buy a dell. I wouldnt. I would rather having a pentium 2 system running windows 95, severely infected. At least I would know i have a bad computer and would not trust it. With this computer you would not know what hit you....

With this computer you will have " " great " " tech support. If you can understand the language and follow what they are reading from their screens you will hear that they dont have a cure for you. Then after 90 days your warranty will expire and you will start worrying since its an expensive system. If you bought an extended warranty you probably paid $500-700 and still ranting about it.

Same system with a good warranty ( 1 year from the manufacturers at least some parts 3 years ) and much better a lot better quality components would cost you the same. I wouldn't buy a dell.
warranty part doesnt apply to you as its a laptop. i just got lost in my ranting :) )

I would look for a more reliable brand. Toshiba has great laptops, sony is expensive but pays back, acer is coming up with very good ones lately ( very affordable too )
M400-S4032 Toshiba $2,199


Also you can customize M400-ST9113. May be very profitable also.

On the other hand do not worry about the softwares as there are always free alternatives which would work a lot better then what they give you. They give you  " myway spyware " too keep in mind.
Things to consider is they donot come shipped with xpcd/ maybe a recovery cd which is OEM  has a hidden recovery partition, so if your Laptop has a bad hair day your in trouble.
FYI others reviews of the DEL
Del Sales

Personally I prefer Acer
Ok, I think you're crazy for wanting a 17 inch screen, because they whole point of a laptop is to CARRY it, balance it on your LAP etc, but just to show you comparison, I did a little customization on a 17 inch sager that starts at 1,379, and bumped it up to 2 GB of memory and 100 GB Hard drive and it's still only 1,734.  Now that doesn't include extra warranty or extra other  stuff, but it's still a lot cheaper.  And, get a 15 inch monitor.  Much better.

I'd give you the page with my customizations, but its not an exact link so here's this:


I customized the NP5750C, though I'd recommend customizing the NP3880C.

You can also just go to http://www.sagernotebook.com and look at all their stuff.  They organize laptops by chips, by the by.

I spent a great deal of time looking at other companies, and I not only found they were more expensive, I found it wasn't worth it.  They put money into things I didn't need/didn't want before they put it into important stuff, like the chip.  I'd walk around the stores or browse online, and half of the companies wouldn't even put a good chip in their computers, and the ones that did, as soon as they did, the price skyrocketed, and that was before decent memory etc was put in.

The only company that I saw putting real money into the actual product was lenovo (the company that bought out IBM) and quite frankly, I couldn't afford their products.

My decision came down to Lenovo or Sager, and Sager was affordable.

I also don't get why people include the whole software as part of the computer thing.  If a company builds you a computer and throws shit on there for free, good for you.  Not exactly legal, but whatever.  But, you're buying a computer, not programs, I don't get how people are swayed by that stuff.

Yeah, I have major issues with dell too, but for some reason my dad disagrees.

I also have issues with AMD chips running majorly hot.  It's one thing in a desktop where you can add fans.  You can't do that to a laptop.  Supposedly they don't run as hot anymore but I'm wary.  Also, you don't want to get a P4 chip for a laptop, just in case you didn't know.  Some makers put them in anyway cuz they're idiots.  Centrino basically is P4 for the laptop, slightly more complicated but there you have it.  So P4s will run uber uber hot in laptops.  Which is one reason why marketers are saying that oh, actually the AMD is the better chip, it runs cooler, the P4 is too hot right now.  Duh, of course it is, it ain't supposed to be there.  But centrino is the best chip for the laptop and really what you want to get.  But AMD is supposedly running close to it, though it's not optimized as well, so *shrugs*

Also, if it's a good, reliable company, it's worth it to get the extended warranty, but read it first.  Meaning, I'd do it at sager, not dell (probably).

But basically what it comes down to, is I can get a good used car for $2,000.  So if you're going to spend that much on a laptop, it better be a damn good one.

Wooky JackAuthor Commented:

if I were to go to alienware i'd just get a desktop as desktops will out match laptops in gaming in my opinion as lovewithnoface is right about overheating issues with laptops.  

I'm in the US, not much of a gamer, but I like to game of course.

I agree with you on Toshiba, my only concern is the screen and its adjustability.  I don't like that feature.  I think maybe after these stellar suggestions I don't need this beefy of a laptop.  Especially at that price.  I am really discouraged to make a purchase like this and then in a couple years possibly be stuck with a purchase that is not upgradeable in games to software and hardware.  I concur that Dell has its misfortunes in that detail.  They offer incredibly awesome stuff, but myself I'm not going to bite until I get some further input as I have received excellent input here.  Thank you very much...big smily face haha :).

thank you for the links, very useful in my search now as I plan to drop this Dell :)

I couldn't have been happier with that suggestion as well.  You bring up some excellent points concerning this laptop and what might be in better interest.

Here's down low on me:
I am going to college and I plan to move into an apt or room for rent.  I'm still debating whether I should get a great desktop or laptop.  I love both, but don't/can't need/afford both lol!  I DO want to get a kick around laptop like a cheap latitude or something small and reliable JUST to take notes in class.  Something in the vacinity of $200-350.  Maybe cheaper...who knows, but then I want to have a system for my own enterntainment as I don't plan on getting a 52" flat screen tv with tivo/hdtv blah blah blah.  I guess this leads me to ask...should I go with those suggestions provided by toshiba or acer or sager or should I go desktop hunting as well?

Wooky JackAuthor Commented:
what do you all think of these laptops?


i am not familiar with them.  I want 512-1gb ram, 80gb hard drive, xp pro cd, light weight, wireless/ethernet, nvidia graphics, duo core pross.

what should I be looking at folks? :)

you should look at acer's. they are really good too. toshiba isnt bad but i prefer acer's. less 'garble' when you first get one
Wooky JackAuthor Commented:
acer.com i assume?
Wooky JackAuthor Commented:
how do I know what model I want from your link netmonk? :)  i like the travel mate or aspire.
i just gave you this site for information. you can buy it from newegg.com or tigerdirect.com. just look for the model number. circuit city and staples also carries both these brands and has a good selection of models too
its really whatever you see that floats your boat. there are a lot of different setups to choose from. i would go for the amd turions though. but the intel core duo is good too. what is it that you are gonna be doing with this laptop? if you dont mind me asking
Wooky JackAuthor Commented:
aaaaahhhhh i c
and while i was writing there were three comments.  thats never good
Wooky JackAuthor Commented:
Interesting stuff lovewithnoface :)

Thanks all, but guess what?  I think I'll downgrade the laptop idea and just beef up a nice desktop :)  Thanks for the input!
I like that idea thephalanx you'll be glad you chose this way, couple of tips, if you decide to build one or buy the bits and get someone to pull it all together choose a brand and match the hardware right thru the end result is a very reliable/stable computer.
for example I chose the gigabyte brand/and  xpathlon processor and matched that thru with a gigabyte nvidia 6600GT video card , also buy two hdd straight up and from day one save all your music/ movies/games files/ to the slave. And just keep the master for windows.
Best wishes to you and good Luck
If you would like some links to good value for parts and live in Australia. :)
Always a good idea to have a good desktop.

Plus, good desktops last a long time and are easily upgradable--whereas the laptop field is changing much more quickly and is laptops are much harder to upgrade.

Good luck and thanks for the points :)
Wooky JackAuthor Commented:
My thoughts exactly Merete and lovewithnoface.  I love building desktops, its just my knowledge around laptop upgrades isn't as easy as modding up a nice desktop would be :)

thanks again!

i usually get my parts from newegg.com, i live in California so I get them next day after ordering hehe, pretty sweet :)
sweet :)
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