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HP Laserjet 5si Duplexing jams

Posted on 2006-06-25
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Last Modified: 2013-12-15
Hi there,

I've got an old HP 5si that I recently bought a duplex unit for.  However, when I actually try to use it, I get error code 13.8.  When I open the back of the printer, I find the page printed on one side, and loosely (and crookedly) dropped halfway down to the turnaround area under Tray 3.  Thinking it was the duplexer, I managed to get a replacement one, which was tested before being sent out to me.  When it arrived, I installed it and encountered the same problem.  Obviously, this doesn't happen when I don't print in duplex mode.  I'm not sure whether the page is jamming on its way down, or on its way back up.

What's the possible issue here and how do I fix it (what parts do I need, etc.)?  I've been trying to get this brute working properly now for 6 months!

Cheers,

TDR
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Question by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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Expert Comment

by:nobus
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i would inspect the paper, for signs where it jams, and inspect that area.
maybe this can help too :    http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/forums/laser/8400#4
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by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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Thanks for the info, nobus, but I'm in the same situation as the poster in your link:

1. I've replaced all the rollers for Trays 1, 2, and 3.

2. I've tried two different duplexing units, one of which I know was working in another printer

Checking out the paper doesn't really tell me anything beyond what I've already written in my first post.  The paper never jams in exactly the same place, but it's always after the first side has printed, either on its way to or from the turnaround area under Tray 3 (no way to tell as far as I know), and it's always loose-- I can pull the page out with no resistance and the paper is undamaged and not crinkled.

Cheers,

TDR
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by:nobus
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and you are sure the unit is properly fixed to the printer? Nothing bent or broken ?
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by:David523
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Per the Service Manual:

"13.8"

"8 = 2-Sided Turnaround Paper Stopped Jam

Paper Jam message 13.7 through 13.10 involve paper jams related to the Duplex Module.  Paper is diverted into the Duplex module after leaving the Fusing Assembly.  The paper is then 'turned around and re-fed into printer's paper path" (Refer...).  "To view a duplex print operation, remove Tray 3 and initiate a duplex print job from the printer's Control Panel; you should be able to observe the trailing edge of the paper being turned around in the Tray 3 paper cavity.  For duplex print problems, first reseat the module.  If problems persist, replace the complete Duplex Assembly.  The Fusing Assembly and Diverter Assembly may also cause duplex printing problems.  Verify their operation."

I'm not sure but if the 5si has a little door on the front you can open and also see the duplexer in action.

Hope this Helps.
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by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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Hi guys,

Here's a reply to both of you.  Thanks for posting!

NOBUS: Yes, I'm sure.  Nothing obviously bent or broken in either the Duplexing unit or the printer.

DAVID523: Thanks for the info.  I also have the Service Manual for the 5si, and I have examined the printer as described, but have seen nothing that gives me any more of a clue as to what the problem is.

EVERYONE: The more I read about this on various websites, the more it seems like it might be a fuser issue.  Apparently the 5si and 8000 and 8500 all have duplexing issues with after-market fusers.  If anyone knows where I can get a genuine HP fuser, that would be great, but if anyone knows of any other solution, that would be better.  I live in Japan, and buying ANOTHER fuser has to be done from outside the country, since HP does not sell LaserJets to consumers here, so add the expense of shipping (about $40-50 U.S. for Global Express) to the cost of the fuser, and that's pretty high.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Cheers,

TDR
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by:David523
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I don't know if they will ship overseas but a good place to check is:   http://www.depot-america.com/

Hope this Helps!!!
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Accepted Solution

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SteveG00000 earned 350 total points
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I have dad this issue before and it was the Fuser that was causing the problem, it only happens on duplexd prints, single sided are perfect but on the return of a duplexed sheet it catches on the fuser for an unknown reason. The printer I fixed this problem on was an 8000 at one of the sites I work on.

You could try contacting Specialist Computer Centers on 0121 541 4888 and see if purchasing will send to your country as they are a world wide company.

Not sure if it ok to post this info so apologies if it is not and please delete if need be.
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Author Comment

by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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Thanks guys.

I'm going to look into getting a new fuser and get back to all of you.  In the meantime, any suggestions for other things I can try in the interim are welcomed.

Cheers,

TDR
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Author Comment

by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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Uh, any other suggestions on where to buy from?  Depot America pretty much only deals with companies, and as for Specialist Computer Centers-- if the only way to contact them is by phone (not just the cost-- remember there's a 9-hour time difference between the UK and Japan), it makes continued back-and-forth in case of service issues inconvenient.

Cheers,

TDR
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Expert Comment

by:SteveG00000
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I will call them today and enquire for you as to if they have supplies nearer to your location.
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Author Comment

by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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SteveG00000,

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

TDR
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by:SteveG00000
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A college in purchasing is checking with a supplier that covers the states, need to know where you are to get more details.
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Expert Comment

by:joed
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Two thing I have had cause duplex jams that you might not expect.
1. the fuser.
2. remove tray 3 and look on the bottom of the printer. You might find some lost sheets of paper. 5si duplexer shoots the paper down under tray3 and pulls it back up into the printer for side 2 printing. This problem is more obvious when trying to print on larger paper like 8.5x14 or 11x17.
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Author Comment

by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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SteveG00000: I'm in Yokohama, Japan.

JOED: Thanks for the advice, but the paper never makes it that far.  Also, I've removed Tray 3 in order to watch the jam happen, and there is definitely not any paper under there.  Looking into the fuser issue.

Cheers,

TDR
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Expert Comment

by:hladamjr
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HP 5 Si's are past their prime in my opinion. They were a workshorse in their day I admit. You might consider a replacement and get something that is serviceable in your area with parts that are available to you somehwta locally when the need arises.

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Expert Comment

by:David523
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If your interest is in obtaining a replacement printer as suggested by hladamjr (and I would consider that a Very Good Choice), you might want to check the following link.  It is to HP and will guide you to a printer that should fulfill your printing needs.  Then armed with this you can find a local provider or a similar printer.

http://h30216.www3.hp.com/ASA/Controller?adi_hasScript=1&_AD_195R22=97&adi_scriptSID=C9AE55E01DC430DE9FDABB0F8498F79B&sysid=84&appid=10447&_ad_stoken=ent&que-functions=printing&hp=

Hope this Helps!!!
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Author Comment

by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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Hi guys,

I've already ordered the new fuser.

The thing is that I got the 5si for free, and a new equivalent printer would run me in the thousands of USD (since I require the ability to print A3 size).  I prefer to spend hundreds to repair this one.  Also, aside from duplexing, the printer works perfectly (with the occasional jam due to humidity problems in my house).

Also, they don't sell Laserjets to consumers in Japan (where I live), and the alternatives are garbage.  I've helped other people and businesses buy printers here, but nothing works as well or as reliably as an old HP.  I do always have my eye out for retired HP printers, but they were never as heavily used here as they were in North America.

I would not say that a 5si is past its prime, given that when I lived in Canada three years ago, I was running a Series II which was, I think, nearly 20 years old at the time, as well as an old 4V.  In fact, in my experience, the older Laserjets actually are more reliable than the new ones and the parts required to maintain them relatively cheap.  Unfortunately, the 5si has this fuser/duplexer issue...

I will keep everyone posted, as I expect to receive the fuser in the next 10 days or so.

Cheers,

TDR
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by:SteveG00000
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Fingers crossed, no joy from my company on a supplier, sorry, but glad that you have found a source.
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Assisted Solution

by:printerguy
printerguy earned 150 total points
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Have you tried cleaning/inspecting the '2nd pass roller. If the roller gets dirty with paper lint or the page count is high enough to warrant replacing it. If you have under 300,000 copies the roller is probably fine. I recommend cleaning the '2nd pass roller. Remove the toner cartridge. lift up the paper guide on the registration.(might have a green handle labeled #2) lift up the guide under this one (might be labeled #3) There are 4 large feed rollers. These rollers grab the paper being sent from the duplexer to 'refeed' the page back under the toner cartridge to be printed again. I warn companies continually about using cheap paper, as this is the culprit from most paper related jams.

good luck
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Author Comment

by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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Hi Printerguy.

I haven't tried that yet.  I'm thinking you may be on to something though, because I did get and install a new fuser on Monday, with the following results:

1. Duplexing now works.
2. I'm getting a lot of 13.2 and 13.3 paper jams.  From Tray 1, the paper sometimes doesn't even get into the printer before the jam is reported.  If it does, then I end up having to clear 2-3 sheets.  From Tray 3, the paper jams on its way up towards the toner.  It seems to be a timing/flag/sensor issue, but I will attempt to clean the 2nd pass roller and see what the results are.

The printer was badly mistreated (cheap paper, no cleaning) at its previous home, so it probably needs that complete cleaning I've been putting off.

I will post again next week to let everyone know the results of the cleaning (I won't be able to do it before next Monday or Tuesday).

Cheers,

TDR

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Expert Comment

by:SteveG00000
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Jams from tray 1 will most probably be the small pickup roller and seperation pad, as for tray 3, clean the two plastic and two rubber rollers under the right hand door and the five big rubber rollers under the plate that is underneath the toner cartridge.
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Author Comment

by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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Thanks Steve,

But I've already replaced the Tray 1 pickup roller and separation pad.  I'll be doing some cleaning Monday night on those rollers (as that was part of the solution recommended by Printerguy).  In fact, the whole damn printer's going to get a cleaning.  I'll post again on Tuesday to let everyone know how it went.

Cheers,

TDR
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Author Comment

by:The_Dark_Rabbit
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Hi everyone,

The conclusion to this issue:

1. The duplex unit jamming problem was solved by replacing the fuser with a genuine HP fuser.  This is a common problem for 5si/8000 models.
2. The other jamming problems were aggravated by having a fuser in, but were curbed by cleaning the entire printer's innards.  It's possible that one of the wee plastic flags is jamming occasionally, but the problem is random and not easily reproduceable.

Cheers,

TDR
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Expert Comment

by:SteveG00000
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[quote]Comment from SteveG00000
Date: 06/28/2006 12:42AM BST
 Your Comment  


I have dad this issue before and it was the Fuser that was causing the problem, it only happens on duplexd prints, single sided are perfect but on the return of a duplexed sheet it catches on the fuser for an unknown reason. The printer I fixed this problem on was an 8000 at one of the sites I work on.
[/quote]

Why refund?
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