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what font is this?

Posted on 2006-06-29
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I'm finishing a website, and there's a consistant font that I'm supposed to be using for text on images.

Unfortunatly, the original creator doesn't remember what font it is, and I only have it as an image file:

*link removed*

What font is this???

It's very close to, but not times new roman.  The capital C and L look the same, but if you look at the word photo and how the h hooks above the P, it doesn't do that in Times New Roman.  And, the capital A is slightly smaller than the other capitals, and that's not times new roman.

starting at 200pts.
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Question by:lovewithnoface
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by:David Brugge
ID: 17016039
So far, this is a toughie for me. I have about 3500 fonts (including weights and styles) on my machine and it does match any so far.

I tried http://www.identifont.com/ and answered the questions several different ways with no luck.

And I have browsed my favorite font sites looking for a match but so far have come up empty handed.

Does your mother know if it was a commercial font? (One that was purchased individually as opposed to a free font or one that came as part of a collection?)

Are there any more or larger samples? If so, you can go to someone like http://www.fontexpert.de/openere.htm and upload a sample. If they can match it, they will show you the matching font, but not the name or where to find it (they charge for that info) The up side is that they are pretty good at identifying fonts, and you don't have to pay unless it's a perfect match. The down side is that they tend to deal only in commercial fonts, and once they identify it for you, you still have to buy the font.
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17016144
it's used in a couple images on <site address removed> It's not a large sample, but it's pretty eye catching and specific.  They're probably the most definable letters/traits in the font.

my mom doesn't buy fonts.  she downloads stuff, but there's no way it could be commercial unless for some odd reason she was able to get it for free, like someone sent it to her or it was on a free disc, but that just seems odd.

The weird part is, is that it's a really really really familiar looking font.  I've positive I've never used it, but I'm pretty sure that I've seen it before--maybe in print.  But wherever I saw it, it wasn't something special, that's whats so confusing.  I think this should be a pretty common font (not as in everyone has it, but as in it's in the extras pack of some common software or the fonts that only get installed with custom install or some common download or download pack).
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ddhamm earned 400 total points
ID: 17016329
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by:CWS (haripriya)
ID: 17016953
Font Name : Goudy-Bold
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by:lherrou
ID: 17017477
DeeDee has it right, Bernhard Modern Roman

Cheers,
LHerrou

(all points to her, I'm just confirming what she said)
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by:Debugyeh
ID: 17017487
i think its Bodoni MT font, i've look it up, and it looks the same to me.

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by:lherrou
ID: 17017609
>> i think its Bodoni MT

Look again at the lowercase h, and how it rises over the P next to it. You aren't going to find that in Bodoni.
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17021103
its not Bernhard Modern Roman, look at the A

I think though, because i then spent time looking at the page and the family, that it might be this:

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/atf/bernhard-modern/

its hard to tell though I realized because if you look at the fonts at anything larger than size 14, they all look wrong.  for example, the t in this font curves, and on my moms page it doesn't.  but, when you make it the same size, the it looks the same.  i think.  its hard to tell.

um, i dont have bodoni or goudy-bold, but if you have links, i'd be happy to look at both just to double check.  
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by:ddhamm
ddhamm earned 400 total points
ID: 17021138
The lower case g is the real give-away that it is some weight of Bernhard Modern.  Also the capital P is shorter than the lower case h.

Here it is with the smaller font:
Bernhard Modern:
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/atf/bernhard-modern/

Here are similar examples:
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/atf/bernhard-modern/morelikethis.html

The link above shows it in Bodoni (and that font doesn't really match the sample)

DeeDee
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17021663
Is it just me, or do they not have Bernhard Modern Roman on the list where you can type and see what it is?

I'm going with the defining feature to figure out which one being the uppercase A, because I can't see any other differences, and I found the font family page (http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/atf/bernhard-modern/familytree.html) and there are only three families with that feature.

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/imageclub/bernhard-modern/

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/adobe/bernhard-modern/

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/atf/bernhard-modern/

and I can't tell the difference really, even though I know that two are knockoffs basically.  Right?  That's how it works?  Companies don't want to pay for them so they make their own?  Like Arial and Helvetica?
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17021665
"Bernhard Modern was designed in 1937 by Lucian Bernhard for ATF"

so the non-pointy A is original?  all the pointy As are fake?
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by:lherrou
lherrou earned 100 total points
ID: 17021698
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17021748
wait, don't you mean that the bold isn't pointy?  or do we mean different things by point?

http://www.linotype.com/137/bernhardmodern-family.html?PHPSESSID=729185758be9e43d07f837406331fe12

has only two not pointy, and they're bold and bold italic

interesting article, thanks for the link.

i wonder since roman was basically part of the name, just sometimes included, sometimes not if my question earlier about it is a non-question.  just on one page it specifically says roman and on another page, even though its the same font it doesn't bother...

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by:ddhamm
ID: 17021974
That is really weird, the Bernhard Modern (when it doesn't say roman, it's basically roman, right?) doesn't have that pointy capital A, but the Bernhard Moder Bold does!

http://www.linotype.com/9695/bernhardmodernbold-font.html

DeeDee
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17022213
<That is really weird, the Bernhard Modern (when it doesn't say roman, it's basically roman, right?) doesn't have that pointy capital A, but the Bernhard Moder Bold does!>

I think that's normal.  Look here: http://www.linotype.com/137/bernhardmodern-family.html?PHPSESSID=729185758be9e43d07f837406331fe12

These are the four original weights of Bernhard Modern Roman.  The bold weights aren't pointy.  So the knockoffs obviously followed various things.  Some have the pointy A, some have the non-pointy A, but the original font had both, pointy for regular, non-pointy for bold.

The capital A is the only noticable difference in the various weights of Bernhard Modern Roman that I noticed, and the other fonts Bernhard Antiqua and Bernhard Fashion have no weights so there's no way to check for differences there.

And yes, when it doesn't say roman, it must be roman.  There are only three Bernhard fonts according to the page: Bernhard Antiqua, Bernhard Fashion and Bernhard Modern Roman, so people probable just leave off the Roman all the time.
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by:lherrou
lherrou earned 100 total points
ID: 17022268
Roman is used in a number of different ways, unfortunately. It can mean a non-proportionately spaced font (where the letter widths are different sizes), it can mean any serifed font, or, it can mean letterforms with a heritage directly from Roman inscriptions (Typically from around 100BC - 120 AD, such as the inscription on the base of Trajan's Column (hence the font Trajan)...
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17022420
<Roman is used in a number of different ways, unfortunately. It can mean a non-proportionately spaced font (where the letter widths are different sizes), it can mean any serifed font, or, it can mean letterforms with a heritage directly from Roman inscriptions (Typically from around 100BC - 120 AD, such as the inscription on the base of Trajan's Column (hence the font Trajan)...>

so the word Roman in a font name means something, just its unsure what?

does this mean that not all Bernhard Modern fonts are in fact Bernhard Modern Roman?  I'm a bit confused on this one, because the original a least is named, Bernhard Modern Roman, but isn't always referred to as such, and the three other weights don't seem to have the Roman as part of the name

*wonders if she's ever seen an EE question actually stay completely on topic*
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by:lherrou
ID: 17050819
>> so the word Roman in a font name means something, just its unsure what?

Right, pretty much. I think these days there's "Roman" as a style, which is archaic usage (since it can't be determined what it means per the above), and then a font foundry or designer may name the font with "Roman" as part of the name.


>> *wonders if she's ever seen an EE question actually stay completely on topic*

*laughing* Not very many, that's for sure!
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17054475
just a quick comment here to let everyone know, this is not abandoned, but as I have to dash out of the house, I don't have time for the comment i wanted to leave right this minute.  i'll comment later today though, promise.
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17056722
I wanted to thank everyone for all the help i got on this and post a little resolution before i award points.

i now actually have the font on my computer and its definitly bernhard modern roman

I'd like to correct my earlier statement: <there are only three families with that feature.>

actually if you go to http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/atf/bernhard-modern/familytree.html, every single version has the non-pointy a in it, just most only have it in the bold weights.  it appears that most of the versions of the font followed the form of the original, which means that youll only see that nonpointy A if you turn bold on.  a few of the versions have fewer than four weights (regular, bold, italic, bold italic) and thats where the mixing and matching comes in

for anyone who's interested, while the A is the most noticable change, there are other ways to recognize the bold font traits.  the captial letters O and Q are both slanted regularly, but aren't when they are bolded.  this is also true for the lowercase o.    the angles for the font seem to also change minutely when bolded, which is much more noticable in the lowercase letters.  in most of the letters, you'd be hard pressed to noticed unless you have the bold weighted letters right next to the unbolded ones, but it some, the attributes stand out enough to be noticed without their counterparts.

the lowercase t in bernhard modern roman is straight and flat at the top.  when bolded, it is shorter, and the top is severly angled.  you can also look at the tops of the lowercase letters that point, like b, d, h, k, and l and see if they are pointing shallowly (bold) or severly (regular)

probably not of interest to most people, but if you have one of the versions without four weights, it may actually be of some use, making things match

also @lherrou

<it can mean letterforms with a heritage directly from Roman inscriptions>

bernhard isn't, is it?  its just roman for the sake of roman?  or is it old enough that its roman for letters of different widths?  because im about 95% certain they are.  as in i'd be 99% or 100% certain except that i wouldnt want to look ridiculously stupid when proven wrong....

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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17056746
wait a second....how many fonts actually have letters that are the same width.  because i'm playing on my computer, and the only one ive found so far is copperplate goth bd bt

wow.  i like how it took this many days to sink in.  times new ROMAN.
 
duh.
ok and courier new

ok and lithograph and lucidia console.  and i expect that i'll find a few more by the time i get through the rest of the alphabet.  but seriously.  there were a lot of other fonts in there (you know, every other letter (i started at a)) and no roman!  of course, the bernhard modern on my computer doesnt call itself roman either...
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by:lherrou
lherrou earned 100 total points
ID: 17057488
>> how many fonts actually have letters that are the same width.

Very few fonts these days are fixed width, most are proportional. With modern typesetting, there's no advantages in most cases to a fixed width font, and a proportional font becomes much easier to read, and allows you to fit more text into less space. It's also easier to design. It can be very, very hard to design a fixed width font that does not look like it has huge gaps between certain letter combinations (and, the other tradeoff of modern typesetting is that we rarely use ligatures... but that's a whole 'nother topic!).

>> bernhard modern on my computer doesnt call itself roman either...

I see it more without the Roman than with, but I believe the original was called Roman, and it then got dropped by some of the foundries.
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17061859
ahhhh.  that explains a lot.  because i was only looking at fonts where the letters actually were the same widths, probably all modern fonts.

very interesting stuff.
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by:lherrou
ID: 17061936
If you're interested in fonts, a great site is http://www.typophile.com/

Some of the current top font designers actually participate in the forums there. Where else can us lowly hacks hobnob with our idols? *grin*
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17061956
thanks everyone!

DeeDee, enormous kudos for finding this font!

lherrou thanks for all of the extra time and info on fonts in general, I learned a lot, and am consequently going to spend way too much time hanging out here.


@ddhamm, just out of curiousity, how did you find the font?  because i found the page where you can load a sample on myfont, and mine was too something to read, so it didn't work.  did you find a way to make it?  do you just have super font recognizing skils/a super font library
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by:ddhamm
ID: 17062022
I used my favorite graphic program (CorelDraw) and typed in the sample text, scrolled through my fonts and I actually HAD it!!!  If I had not had the font, I would have gone to those font sites and looked.  Plus...yes I have a really good eye <grin>

I also was a typesetter once... I think that helps a lot!

DeeDee
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17062168
< If you're interested in fonts, a great site is http://www.typophile.com>

are you kidding?  even if it was a horrible site i'd go there.  that's a well picked url name.

<Some of the current top font designers actually participate in the forums there. Where else can us lowly hacks hobnob with our idols?>

man, i should have never posted this question.  i now have a new, very obsessive hobby.  i'll probably end up posting random questions about fonts in EE just for cool discussion.

<I used my favorite graphic program (CorelDraw)>

really?  never used coreldraw...how is it?  whats it do?  i mean, i love everything wordperfect, so i cant imagine disliking it, and dont know why i havent used it.....

<I actually HAD it!!!>

you want to know the weird thing?

my mom sent me the font and i went to install it (not to actually do the work but to open wordperfect and start bolding!!!), and i found that i already had installed bernhard modern bold bt and bernhard modern bold italic bt, which makes zero sense.  one, i couldn't find it when i went through my word perfect fonts and it should have been there, and two, why on earth would i have two specific weights of a font on my computer when you only need the original and then you can highlight the text and bold it yourself?   the whole thing made zero sense.  as in negative sense.  as in i'm sure its all microsofts fault....

<I also was a typesetter once... I think that helps a lot!>

yah, maybe, just a little :)

that sounds very cool, probably sounds more glamorous than it actually is, but none the less...elaborate?
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by:ddhamm
ID: 17062241
Well, CorelDraw is awesome for vector art.  It's a graphic art program similar to Adobe Illustrator.  I am just so much faster using CorelDraw than Illustrator since I've been using it for about 10 years.  You can do multiple pages easily -- but it's not really recommended to use for laying out large books.  I don't use the Corel Photo Paint program though... for that kind of stuff I use Photoshop.  I don't use Corel Wordperfect at all....it's really nothing like CorelDraw.

DeeDee
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17062323
hmm, ill have to check out coreldraw...

<I don't use Corel Wordperfect at all....it's really nothing like CorelDraw.>

well, word programs and art programs art wouldnt be, but no other corel?  how sad :( me like all the lovely corel programs

good to know though.  i try and avoid using adobe programs except when i have to because of the enormous drain on my system...i use picassa for example for minor editing and cataloging, i try to only open photoshop if i really need the big guns
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by:lherrou
ID: 17062499
OK, as we wander further and further off topic, I still occasionally use Micrografx Picture Publisher, which I started using about 12 years ago - there were so many things it did better than PS (although not quite as good when it came to layer control). Corel bought them out, and I had hopes that they would include some of the wonderful features in Photo Paint, but no such luck.

>>  i'll probably end up posting random questions about fonts in EE just for cool discussion.
If you want cool discussion, stick to the typophile forums. The page editor for this Topic Area might come down hard on you otherwise. *grin* (Hint: Look to the left side of the page.)
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17062969
yes, i noticed.  i can always put it in miscellaneous, or the lounge and put a pointer here though, right?  man you control all the good stuff!

being the page editor for miscellaneous, did you ever type it alot in the beginning?
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by:lovewithnoface
ID: 17062986
what do they mean, names cant have more than ten letters?

grrr.

*plays around*

L.W.N.F.

Logical Warfare and Nullification Facsimile

hah, how bout this?

L.U.V.W.N.O.F.A.C.E.
Lifelike Upgraded Variant Wanting Nocturnal Observation, Forbidden Assassination and Ceaseless Exploration

wow....i am way too easily distracted....
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