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Random Reboots! Winxp? CPU? Mobo?
Hi,
I'm currently trying to fix my friend's old desktop computer that he gave to me. however, right now i'm experiencing the "random reboot" problem in winxp.
it's a:
p4 2.66 socket 478
ECS mobo (I'm away from the comp right now, but i'll check later)
1GB 2700 DDR
ATI Radeon 9200
80GB WD HDD ATA 133
CD-RW + CD-ROM
3.5 Floppy
anyway, as i said before, it's having problems with "random reboot". So far, this is what i've tried with no effect.
1. CPU temps? 36 degree C at Idle. -ok
2. Memtest 86 for 6 passes - ok
3. install all updates for winxp
4. reformat + reinstall xp
5. CPU thermal paste removal and reaplication (AS5)
6. Reseat RAM
I've turned off the "restart automatically" function of winxp. however, it does not give me a blue screen of death, it just immediatly reboots seemingly @ random.
now, when i first opened up this case, i noticed that the cpu fan connector was loose!! however, i reconnected it, and it boots fine. Any chance it could have fried the CPU? (i thought that the P4s would shut them selves down to avoid heat damage) Could it have been damaged anyway? thus, giving way to random reboots?
or, i was thinking it could be the mobo? i remember he was having problems with is USB ports before... (sign of a bad mobo?)
I've been working on this all day, but no luck. If anyone here could give me some suggestions, I would really appreciate it!
thanks.
I'm currently trying to fix my friend's old desktop computer that he gave to me. however, right now i'm experiencing the "random reboot" problem in winxp.
it's a:
p4 2.66 socket 478
ECS mobo (I'm away from the comp right now, but i'll check later)
1GB 2700 DDR
ATI Radeon 9200
80GB WD HDD ATA 133
CD-RW + CD-ROM
3.5 Floppy
anyway, as i said before, it's having problems with "random reboot". So far, this is what i've tried with no effect.
1. CPU temps? 36 degree C at Idle. -ok
2. Memtest 86 for 6 passes - ok
3. install all updates for winxp
4. reformat + reinstall xp
5. CPU thermal paste removal and reaplication (AS5)
6. Reseat RAM
I've turned off the "restart automatically" function of winxp. however, it does not give me a blue screen of death, it just immediatly reboots seemingly @ random.
now, when i first opened up this case, i noticed that the cpu fan connector was loose!! however, i reconnected it, and it boots fine. Any chance it could have fried the CPU? (i thought that the P4s would shut them selves down to avoid heat damage) Could it have been damaged anyway? thus, giving way to random reboots?
or, i was thinking it could be the mobo? i remember he was having problems with is USB ports before... (sign of a bad mobo?)
I've been working on this all day, but no luck. If anyone here could give me some suggestions, I would really appreciate it!
thanks.
ASKER
No dust. so i don't think it's an airflow problem. I tried running it with the cover off, and still it reboots...
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Good points but:
>>Turn off the CPU's internal cache
That can slow down the CPU to the speed of a turtle...
I tried installing XP on a cache-disabled system ... took all day.
>>Turn off the CPU's internal cache
That can slow down the CPU to the speed of a turtle...
I tried installing XP on a cache-disabled system ... took all day.
But it can help identify the culprit...
ASKER
ok, i've looked over my mobo, and i couldn't see any bad capacitors... i also changed the psu (an antec truepower 350), but no luck.
right now i'm doing a chkdisk, but it's taking awhile.
i've been surfing the web a while and i'm just wondering if it's actually possible to damage these pentium 4 processors w/ excessive heat? according to some of the things i've read, the p4 actually shuts itself down during periods of excessive heat. there have even been reports of ppl running them for fun w/o a heatsink+fan and the chip still being ok? so is there any chance that my cpu is damaged by heat? or more likely it's the mobo?
right now i'm doing a chkdisk, but it's taking awhile.
i've been surfing the web a while and i'm just wondering if it's actually possible to damage these pentium 4 processors w/ excessive heat? according to some of the things i've read, the p4 actually shuts itself down during periods of excessive heat. there have even been reports of ppl running them for fun w/o a heatsink+fan and the chip still being ok? so is there any chance that my cpu is damaged by heat? or more likely it's the mobo?
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http://www.heatsink-guide.com/content.php?content=maxtemp.shtml The Heatsink Guide - All about PC cooling >
What happens if the maximum operating temperatures are exceeded?
If your cooler is insufficient and the temperature exceeds the maximum operating temperature, then this does not mean that the CPU is automatically damaged. With AMD CPUs, you will usually encounter crashes if the CPU is overheated; but these go away as soon as the CPU is cooler again. In the long term, running the CPU at a temperature that is too high may reduce the CPU life, since an overheated CPU is more prone to electromigration - even if it runs stable. With P4 CPUs, the CPU will turn its speed down automatically when it overheats. No damage to the CPU is possible, but the system will get slower while it's hot (which, in some cases, users might not even notice). <
>Pentium 4 Max. temperature depends much on model and clockspeed, but no clear pattern is visible. Consult Intel's tech specs for information on your particular model. (Lowest: P4 Extreme Edition 3.2GHz with 64°C, highest: P4 Willamette 1.8GHz with 78°C). 64°C - 78°C .Pentium M 100°C (!)
http://www.tomshardware.com/2001/09/17/hot_spot/page3.html Hot Spot: How Modern Processors Cope With Heat Emergencies | Tom's Hardware
> After the removal of the heat sink, Quake 3 Arena is slowing down significantly, but the system remains fully operational. The surface temperature of the Pentium 4 processor is a mere 29 degrees Celsius or 84 degrees Fahrenheit. After we put the heat sink back in place, the system performance went up to the original level. This shows that Pentium 4 has an excellent thermal design. The processor does not take any damage and you are not even losing data, because the system remains operational.
The Pentium 4 core comes equipped with a thermal monitoring unit that permanently checks the temperature. As soon as the core temperature has reached a certain trigger value, the thermal unit throttles down the clock of Pentium 4 until a safe temperature has been reached.
This solution is clearly commendable and proves that Intel's idea of equipping Pentium 4 with clock-throttling was far from a bad idea, as some sources want to make us believe. It is pretty much impossible to 'fry' a Pentium 4 processor. Additionally, Pentium 4 remains operational even once the thermal catastrophe took place and the heat sink fell off. <
What happens if the maximum operating temperatures are exceeded?
If your cooler is insufficient and the temperature exceeds the maximum operating temperature, then this does not mean that the CPU is automatically damaged. With AMD CPUs, you will usually encounter crashes if the CPU is overheated; but these go away as soon as the CPU is cooler again. In the long term, running the CPU at a temperature that is too high may reduce the CPU life, since an overheated CPU is more prone to electromigration - even if it runs stable. With P4 CPUs, the CPU will turn its speed down automatically when it overheats. No damage to the CPU is possible, but the system will get slower while it's hot (which, in some cases, users might not even notice). <
>Pentium 4 Max. temperature depends much on model and clockspeed, but no clear pattern is visible. Consult Intel's tech specs for information on your particular model. (Lowest: P4 Extreme Edition 3.2GHz with 64°C, highest: P4 Willamette 1.8GHz with 78°C). 64°C - 78°C .Pentium M 100°C (!)
http://www.tomshardware.com/2001/09/17/hot_spot/page3.html Hot Spot: How Modern Processors Cope With Heat Emergencies | Tom's Hardware
> After the removal of the heat sink, Quake 3 Arena is slowing down significantly, but the system remains fully operational. The surface temperature of the Pentium 4 processor is a mere 29 degrees Celsius or 84 degrees Fahrenheit. After we put the heat sink back in place, the system performance went up to the original level. This shows that Pentium 4 has an excellent thermal design. The processor does not take any damage and you are not even losing data, because the system remains operational.
The Pentium 4 core comes equipped with a thermal monitoring unit that permanently checks the temperature. As soon as the core temperature has reached a certain trigger value, the thermal unit throttles down the clock of Pentium 4 until a safe temperature has been reached.
This solution is clearly commendable and proves that Intel's idea of equipping Pentium 4 with clock-throttling was far from a bad idea, as some sources want to make us believe. It is pretty much impossible to 'fry' a Pentium 4 processor. Additionally, Pentium 4 remains operational even once the thermal catastrophe took place and the heat sink fell off. <
If the CPU, like expalined above, is run at high temperatures (temps that may be just below the shut-slow threshold) this will reduce the life time of any CPU, so it can damage even intel CPU's. Also, if the heat builds up too fast, the cpu may be too slow to shutoff, and that would also damage it. A further possibility is that the thermal sensor isn't propery working, and that could cause a readout that is lower than the actual temperature is, so in such a case the shuttoff threshold would be too high for the CPU to live through it. When you apply thermal transfer paste, make sure there is only a very small amount applied, too much can cause the opposite from what is wanted and stop the heat being transferred to the heatsink.
>> I tried running it with the cover off, and still it reboots...
Could repeat but with a big desktop fan blowing into it. That will definitely get rid of heat.
Could repeat but with a big desktop fan blowing into it. That will definitely get rid of heat.
I've experienced this before, bad caps could make the temperature goes up, it's hard to see in the bad Capacitor are not bulking up, but underneath that caps was leaking, and some it where cheap caps. If your CPU fan is running in normal and your CPU temp rise up on boot-up, then i suggest take a look at the capacitors. i hope this helps a lot, that's what i do, from what i experienced.
I've experienced this problem before. I know this sounds highly unlikely, however this has solved this problem several times for me before.
-------> UNPLUG ALL YOUR USB DEVICES <------
boot up, leave it running for a while see if it reboots then, i doubt it will.
From there, you can easily solve the usb problem.
I'll be back to check if this worked.
Alan
-------> UNPLUG ALL YOUR USB DEVICES <------
boot up, leave it running for a while see if it reboots then, i doubt it will.
From there, you can easily solve the usb problem.
I'll be back to check if this worked.
Alan
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rebooting means it's not heat related problem.
it is memory related problem, but since most pc components have memory in them, it can be caused by the following:
ram, mb, video card, OS
you can take fan, ps, hdd, odd etc out of the equation because if heat is the problem, the computer will shut off, as in not restart, same thing for the power supply. hdd and odd usually doesn't make computer reboot (os/programs on hdd could however)
my best guess is the OS but since you reformatted, it could also be driver related problem.
try reformatting but do now load any drivers and use the system to see if you still have the same problem (DO NOT connect to internet)
if same problem persists even without any drivers loaded, it's probably a mb or ram problem
try
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
memory doesn't fail too often these days (usually defective from the beg but doesn't really go bad after a year or so thus some companies even offer lifetime warranty because memory doesn't usually fail)
so if the above tests all point to mb or ram problem, it'll be ur motherboard
try updating the bios before buying a new board (just in case, try swapping ram first though)
good luck
it is memory related problem, but since most pc components have memory in them, it can be caused by the following:
ram, mb, video card, OS
you can take fan, ps, hdd, odd etc out of the equation because if heat is the problem, the computer will shut off, as in not restart, same thing for the power supply. hdd and odd usually doesn't make computer reboot (os/programs on hdd could however)
my best guess is the OS but since you reformatted, it could also be driver related problem.
try reformatting but do now load any drivers and use the system to see if you still have the same problem (DO NOT connect to internet)
if same problem persists even without any drivers loaded, it's probably a mb or ram problem
try
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
memory doesn't fail too often these days (usually defective from the beg but doesn't really go bad after a year or so thus some companies even offer lifetime warranty because memory doesn't usually fail)
so if the above tests all point to mb or ram problem, it'll be ur motherboard
try updating the bios before buying a new board (just in case, try swapping ram first though)
good luck
one more thing, i'm pretty confident it's not ur cpu either
ASKER
just wanted to say thanks to everyone who's tried to help me so far! this is really frustrating for me, but I’m really grateful for the advice and suggestions!
@Debugyeh - I don't have any USB devices plugged in. thanks.
@rindi - I have made sure to use very little thermal paste. Just to make sure, i cleaned and reapplied it. (i have experience in this, so i am certain that i have done it correctly). thanks.
@shpark82 - i take it you want me to reformat and "not" load the drivers? or do u mean load all the drivers? .
@dbrunton - i don't have a deskfan =( , i'll see if i can get one from my friends?
It seems like the general consensus is that it's either the cpu, or the motherboard.
i've tried a memory swap without any luck, so its defiantly not memory.
Now, the only problem is that i have no way of swapping cpus / mobos. i can't afford to buy a cpu or mobo just to see if this one is working! (no exchange/refunds @ these comp stores). Is there any other way of
if it's the CPU, i'm guessing it's either heat? or just damaged cpu... if it's heat, how hot do the p4s run before they decide to reboot / shutdown?
@Debugyeh - I don't have any USB devices plugged in. thanks.
@rindi - I have made sure to use very little thermal paste. Just to make sure, i cleaned and reapplied it. (i have experience in this, so i am certain that i have done it correctly). thanks.
@shpark82 - i take it you want me to reformat and "not" load the drivers? or do u mean load all the drivers? .
@dbrunton - i don't have a deskfan =( , i'll see if i can get one from my friends?
It seems like the general consensus is that it's either the cpu, or the motherboard.
i've tried a memory swap without any luck, so its defiantly not memory.
Now, the only problem is that i have no way of swapping cpus / mobos. i can't afford to buy a cpu or mobo just to see if this one is working! (no exchange/refunds @ these comp stores). Is there any other way of
if it's the CPU, i'm guessing it's either heat? or just damaged cpu... if it's heat, how hot do the p4s run before they decide to reboot / shutdown?
>>how hot do the p4s run before they decide to reboot
My last post has details temperatures & mentions a "trigger" value without stating what that value is. But the p4 without the heat sink was 29 degrees.
Anyone willing to plug in the cpu into their computer to test drive it? [Or try ebay for a used cpu. Even a new socket 468 you can get for under $60.]
Otherwise, you'll have parts sitting around doing nothing, like my amd athlon & P3 chip with no mbs.
My last post has details temperatures & mentions a "trigger" value without stating what that value is. But the p4 without the heat sink was 29 degrees.
Anyone willing to plug in the cpu into their computer to test drive it? [Or try ebay for a used cpu. Even a new socket 468 you can get for under $60.]
Otherwise, you'll have parts sitting around doing nothing, like my amd athlon & P3 chip with no mbs.
Try a Knoppix CD and boot from that.
http://www.knoppix.org/
If it runs successfully with that then its quite possibly your OS.
http://www.knoppix.org/
If it runs successfully with that then its quite possibly your OS.
i suggest reformat WITHOUT loading any drivers (as in do not insert the driver cd from mb, video, etc)
so your sound won't work, video setting won't be normal, etc
also make sure you don't connect the computer to the internet
if your computer works fine that way, it is likely a driver problem.
but if ur computer still does random reboots, that is a motherboard problem and unless bios update helps, you'll need to replace it.
i still stand by my thought that cpu is not what is causing reboots
so your sound won't work, video setting won't be normal, etc
also make sure you don't connect the computer to the internet
if your computer works fine that way, it is likely a driver problem.
but if ur computer still does random reboots, that is a motherboard problem and unless bios update helps, you'll need to replace it.
i still stand by my thought that cpu is not what is causing reboots
Can anyone here help this guy: http:Q_21904853.html Repair installation problems after a crash.
callrs, if you need to request help in hardware, here's the place:
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/21465336/Hardware-Alert-Notification-Thread.html
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/21465336/Hardware-Alert-Notification-Thread.html
Hi...
Have you checked the Event Viewer in windows XP to see if there is any error there? That could help you diagnosing what the problem is....
Other thing... I see everyone is running behind temp problems and CPU fried... I saw you said that you monitored CPU temp and it was OK... so...
One more thing... Random reboots are not ALWAYS caused by bad mobo... If you take a look at the Event Viewer, in the System section, you will most probably find a 1003 event category (102)... Take a look and let me know.. if you find it, I could be able to give you a couple of hints...
Have you checked the Event Viewer in windows XP to see if there is any error there? That could help you diagnosing what the problem is....
Other thing... I see everyone is running behind temp problems and CPU fried... I saw you said that you monitored CPU temp and it was OK... so...
One more thing... Random reboots are not ALWAYS caused by bad mobo... If you take a look at the Event Viewer, in the System section, you will most probably find a 1003 event category (102)... Take a look and let me know.. if you find it, I could be able to give you a couple of hints...
Goto MY Computer,
Left click,
Properties,
Adavanced,
Startup and Recovery,
Settings,
Uncheck auto restart.
The next time the systen crashes it will blue screen.
Make note of the errors and post the codes.
Left click,
Properties,
Adavanced,
Startup and Recovery,
Settings,
Uncheck auto restart.
The next time the systen crashes it will blue screen.
Make note of the errors and post the codes.
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Go into device manager ,view, devices by connection and see if any IRQ is being forced.
ASKER
Hi,
@dbrunton - i am asking my friend to dl the knoppix cd, (i don't have a burner right now). after boot with it, is there anything else i should do to test it? like a linux stress test or something?
@shpark82 - ok, i have tried it w/ no luck...
@JohnP_Realini - I checked the event viewer. nothing! =(
@pgm554 - no irqs are being shared... i have also removed all peripheral devices besides the Videocard... and it still results in reboots...
I have noticed something else recently that i hope may be of help in diagnosing the problem... sometimes when it restarts, it will not always make it all the way back to windows. sometimes it reboots in the middle of loading windows...... what does that mean?
@dbrunton - i am asking my friend to dl the knoppix cd, (i don't have a burner right now). after boot with it, is there anything else i should do to test it? like a linux stress test or something?
@shpark82 - ok, i have tried it w/ no luck...
@JohnP_Realini - I checked the event viewer. nothing! =(
@pgm554 - no irqs are being shared... i have also removed all peripheral devices besides the Videocard... and it still results in reboots...
I have noticed something else recently that i hope may be of help in diagnosing the problem... sometimes when it restarts, it will not always make it all the way back to windows. sometimes it reboots in the middle of loading windows...... what does that mean?
Almost sounds like a flakey reset switch.
If your not getting a BSOD,I would look at a reset swtch on the case.
Disconnect it from the MOBO.
If your not getting a BSOD,I would look at a reset swtch on the case.
Disconnect it from the MOBO.
no luck as in the computer still restarts with only installing windows without any drivers??
then that means you probably have to change the mb
then that means you probably have to change the mb
Power Supply or Memory. Switch em both and rule out the obvious ones before you do anything else.
It should not be the CPU overheat problem, at the CPU overheat, for Intel CPU it will hang instead of restart.
Check is there any pattern before reboot, may not as you say is random. For example, when play game, play video, etc.
If it restart during play game and video, mostly problem with directX or video card.
Check is there any pattern before reboot, may not as you say is random. For example, when play game, play video, etc.
If it restart during play game and video, mostly problem with directX or video card.
Check the front intake fan/grille for dust.
The same for the powersupply and any other exhaust fans.
Any cables blocking the front fan?
Did you check the heatsink and fan for dust buildup?
If you run the system with the cover off, and a desk fan blowing into it, does it still reboot?
Also:
could be flaky video card, ram, mobo, power supply.