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Pix 501 or Cisco 800 ?

Posted on 2006-07-13
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I work for a company that provides network support for SME's.

Currently we have a fairly standard set up that we install at the perimetre for most clients - we use a PIX 501 and a cheapy netgear ADSL router (of whatever variety is available that month, as they seem to change at a rapid rate)

This generally works - I particularly like the PIX for the following reasons:

1: No-nonsense vpn client. Easily configured & supported.
2: Decent nat-traversal support for IPSEC so that people can connect to the vpn over gprs, 3g etc
3: Ability to connect to radius for authentication of vpn clients

Recently I've had a few issues with the netgears, mainly firmware things to do with them not correctly routing public IP's on the lan interface, and they are generally a cheapy crappy unit - seem prone to overheating and general crashes. Probably fine for home - but I don't think they are really business class.

I'm considering getting a Cisco 800 series adsl router so that we can combine this functionality into one reliable unit.

Will the 827 be a suitable replacement for both boxes (pix&netgear), or am I missing something?

 

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Question by:heathcote123
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by:Pete Long
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>>Will the 827 be a suitable replacement for both boxes (pix&netgear), or am I missing something?

Note a PIX cannot  route (default route stament doesnt count :)
But a router is NOT a firewall - yeah higher end routers can take a firewallIOS if its supported on that model.

So YES  you can just put in an 800 series - but then you will loose the protection of a PIX - ICMP blocking, statefull inspection, floodguard etc etc
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by:heathcote123
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Thanks for anwsering.

I'd be looking at getting one with the following feature pack:

Cisco 827v Series IOS IP/FW Plus IPSec 3DES

Cisco's blurb (http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios122/122relnt/800/rn800xd.htm)

Says it has stateful firewall, and also denial of service detecion - how does this differ from floodguard?

regarding the ICMP blocking, does this mean you cannot control inbound/outbound pings etc from an access list as you can with the pix? I'm not sure if this bothers me that much if true. (Maybe I'm not being paranoid enough!)



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by:heathcote123
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It seems 12.4 has stateful ICMP inspection too now.
(http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps6350/products_configuration_guide_chapter09186a0080455b0d.html)

Does anyone have any experience with the VPN side of things - does the nat traversal work OK over 3g?
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by:rsivanandan
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If you enable CBAC you get all the features that ASA provides (CBAC for router is ASA for PIX). But thinking about it, the question should be like this;

1. Do you want a firewall or a router with firewall capability?

I understand the relation and problems of having the netgear or whatever equipment you put out there. But 8xx can't provide you the rigid integrity that PIX provides.

In essence, if your netgear goes off, pay 30 bucks and get another one, which sounds cheap and better to me instead of paying more...

2. Configuration and maintenance. Configuring and maintaining the Router for CBAC can be disturbing and difficult. On the other hand, any standard configuration will give a fair idea of what the PIX is gonna do.

3. Encryption and VPN Capabilities. PIX is much better to handle encrypted traffic and can have more VPN sessions but Router is not that. Remember that Firewall feature set is an add-on to the Router but PIX is purpose built firewall.

4. 3G, Nat traversal would work both on the router and PIX as well. Not an issue.

Cheers,
Rajesh
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by:rsivanandan
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Oh and yeah, if you enable CBAC, you get all the statefullness and ICMP tuning etc.. Not an issue on that front too. It is all about what is easier, Better and economic.

Cheers,
Rajesh
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by:heathcote123
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I'd just really like to get the same functionality as I currently have into one reliable box.

If configured correctly, is there any reason as to why it would be less secure than  the pix ?
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rsivanandan earned 500 total points
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I was trying to make a point that the fact is;

PIX -> Purpose built firewall.

Router -> Purpose built Router with firewall capabilities.

Like when a new feature for a firewall feature set is rolled out, it won't be available for you on the router ON the same date. There is that implementation/porting lag.

One example I can give you right now is the IOS IDS/IPS feature set. It was there in Cisco's bag and even ASA series have it built-in but router's were introduced to this very recently and they don't scale well.

See what I am talking about ?

Cheers,
Rajesh
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by:heathcote123
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Thats great thanks for your advice.

I think I'll give the 800 a try.

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by:rsivanandan
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Gr8. Lets see how it does.. wouldn't be bad, I'm sure..

Cheers,
Rajesh
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