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DSL network setup:  1 pc has internet access, house has no dial tone, first time poster

Posted on 2006-07-19
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Last Modified: 2008-03-17
Dear Experts,

I am in desperate need of guidance so I registered as a premium member to get the answer to this problem. I will give maximum points to the expert who can provide step-by-step instructions FOR ME to solve this problem. I will attempt to explain everything with pictures of my setup to make it easier to understand.

MY GOAL
To set up a wired dsl network so all the outlets in my house can get dsl simply by connecting a pc into the outlet. 95% of the work would be done in the basement because it's nearly impossible for me to run the cables through the attic. The other 5% involves changing the RJ11 outlet in each room and convert it into an RJ45 outlet so it can accept RJ45 connectors from my nic's.

INFO ON MY HOUSE
This house is only a couple years old. It was built from the ground up and each room has a Cat5e blue cable in the phone outlet. All the blue Cat5e cables congregate in the basement. Pictures to follow.

MY PROBLEM
After I started working on this, my room now has dsl access but the entire house has loss the dial tone. There was dial tone before I started working.  Other rooms do not have dsl access.

BEFORE PICTURE
This is what the wiring in my basement looked like before I did any work on it:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l275/creston009/before.jpg

As you can see, there is a group of blue Cat5e cables that connect to the 4 wire connectors (correct term of the orange cone shaped cap?). Each Cat5e only uses the Blue/White-Blue, Blue, Orange, and Orange/White-Orange wires.  On the right side of the picture is another blue Cat5e that goes to the outside of my house. This blue Cat5e connects it's four wires to the connectors. This was how the home builders set it up. When I had this setup, there was dial tone and there was dsl for one computer at a time.

AFTER PICTURE
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l275/creston009/after.gif

I arrived at this setup from the last diagram I found at this website:
http://www.swhowto.com/HomeNetWiring_Ch2.htm

The small green rectangle in my AFTER diagram represents an RJ45 jack. This was where I made the first cut because I figured it would keep my alarm system operational. I was right. The brown cable is Cat3 because my dsl modem has a port called "DSL" and it only takes Cat3 plugs, so I decided to use a Cat3 plug on either end of this Cat3 cable. Other than that, every other port on all the devices hold an RJ45 Cat5e plug.

If I take any of the blue cable from the Linksys switch and plug it into the green RJ45 jack, I get a dial tone. This tells me there is nothing wrong with the wiring starting from the green rectange to the outside of the house.

What am I doing wrong here? Do I need to buy anything else? Why doesn't the switch relay the dial tone signal?

Please ask me questions if I have failed to explained my situation. I await anxiously for any solution.

Regards,
creston009


EDIT:  If anyone wants me to list what I did step-by-step, please let me know.
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Question by:creston009
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by:Geisrud
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Hmmm, first off, I guess make sure that you have your DSL filters in place on all your phones (but not where the modem connects).  But you knew that already.  I'm a bit confused as to what is going on between your modem and the internet, as everything else looks good.

That said, your modem should plug into a regular phone line with an RJ-11 jack ((regular phone jack) on a normal phone cord) - CAT3 cable is okay, just make sure it's terminated correctly.  Easiest just to use a phone cord from the store....

I don't know anything about the alarm systems, I'm assuming that it also just connects to the phone system (but for my sanity, I just have to pretend it's not there...for now at least)

Since Jack#1 (or the computer connected to it) on your Linsys switch gets internet activity, try that computer on other jacks, or other computers on that jack.

Also, log in to your router and make sure it is providing DHCP for your network.  The manual should be able to tell you how to access it, but by default it should be (on your model) 192.168.0.1 user name is admin and password is black.  (Change those by the way...)
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by:Geisrud
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by:creston009
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Hi, Geisrud,

Thanks for responding. My room is the room with the dsl connection. It's Jack#1. I took the laptop to my room, plugged it in and it could not get online. I couldn't even get to the router configuration page via 192.168.0.1. The modem and the router are bridged, btw.

One thing I should mention:  the outlet in my room is not a regular phone outlet. It's been replaced with an RJ45 Cat5e Leviton jack. Basically, I connect my desktop's nic to the outlet via a Cat5e cable and go online that way.

Concerning the filters, the dsl port of the filter is too small for the RJ45 plug coming from my desktop nic.

Dlink's support pages have not helped me at all.

Just so I am clear, the ports on the back of the switch is used only for RJ45 plugs, correct? And the switch can relay both phone and dsl signals, correct?

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by:Geisrud
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Yes the ports on the switch are only for RJ-45 jacks.  Think of it this way: the "DSL" only goes into your house as far as the modem (connects to the modem with a regular phone cord with RJ-11 jack).  After that, everything this is part of your local area network (LAN) and should use only CAT5e cables with RJ-45 jacks.  

The filters are for all the phones in your house (ALL of them), and not the modem.  For lack of a better description, the filters are filtering out the DSL signal.
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by:creston009
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Hi, Geisrud,

I'll take some screen captures of my router's settings and post it here in a day or two. I can't right now because my ram are failing and the capturing program doesn't capture well.

I want to ask something else:  have you ever seen a network setup like mine and does it work? From browsing the web for answers, I now believe the yellow box is an inline alarm filter. It's a small box that is connected to a large box. Even so, I don't believe it has any effect on my phone signal because it was there before and everything worked.

I'm confused as to why the laptop doesn't work when hooked up to my room, though.
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by:public
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>Just so I am clear, the ports on the back of the switch is used only for RJ45 plugs, correct? And the switch can relay both phone and dsl signals, correct?

You can't be serious!!??
How can you get phone signal trough an ethernet switch?????
You need to separate the voice pairs.
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by:creston009
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Hi, Public,

Please forgive my ignorance. I don't know the answer, so I am asking. Do you know how to separate the voice pairs and can you show me how? Please?
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by:cfourkays
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Never the twain shall meet.
The only line where the voice and data (DSL) are integrated is on the incoming pair, (Or 4 wire using only a pair) prior to hitting your DSL modem.
All voice paths must be paired off before that point.
The modem (modulator-demodulator) take the broadband frequency and feeds it thru the Cat5 to your router which in turn feeds your PC's thru Cat5 to their respective NIC's.
Voice cannot be carried simutaneously on the Cat5 cables.
Most home systems prewired will have the wall jacks with 2 terminations; an RJ-45 and an RJ-11.
Behind them will be 2 cables, a Cat5 and a simple 4 wire telephone cable.

If the cable run was Cat6, allowing an extra pair, that can be off terminated for voice.
Pete
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by:creston009
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Hi, cfourkays,

Are you saying that since I have cat5e, that I cannot have voice and a dsl network at the same time?
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by:Fatal_Exception
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am late to this party, but if I may..  What you need to do, if you want to network this home, is to have 2 lines run to each room that you want networked..  Once you splice your DSL modem into the network in the basement, everything after that is ethernet, and cannot carry voice, just data (unless you are running a flavor of VOIP).  The voice lines need to be split before you splice in your modem and switch, and each line needs to have a filter on it to separate the frequencies..

Incoming Line at DeMarc <--> voice lines with filters to each room
                                       |
                                 DSL Modem <--> Switch or Router <--> LInes to each Ethernet Jack
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by:creston009
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Hi, Fatal_Exception,

Your diagram at the end looks confusing to me.  What do the arrows  and the vertical line mean?

You say the voice lines need to be split before I splice in the modem and switch. Can you explain how to split the voice lines? If I need to, I can undo all the changes I've made thus far if that will enable me to set up this network without running the cables through the house.  I have an acquaintance who has a friend who works for a phone company. This friend came over to his house and set up his network without running any cables. He did everything at the point where the phone line enters the home.  This inspired me to set out to duplicate the method but obviously I'm missing a few key bits of info here.

Here is the adjustments I made to my crude set up:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l275/creston009/now.jpg

What I did was,  (starting from left to right) I took a cat5e cable from the switch, connected it to a cat3 cable with an RJ45 at the end. I then connected the cat3 cable to a dsl filter, and connected that filter to the green RJ45 jack near the alarm box. I then connected the modem to the dsl filter as well. With this set up, I have a dial tone for 1 phone in my house. I also keep the dsl connection to 1 of my computer. This set up is temporary until I can learn how to do it right.
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by:Fatal_Exception
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The easy way:  If you have a phone jack in your basement,  splice in your DSL modem there.  Then run everything data related from that point on.  That means ethernet cabling to each outlet, to be used exclusively for data.  Each room will have two jacks, one for data, and the pre-existing one for voice.

Your diagram needs to be fully adjusted, as you have spliced your modem in front of the voice lines, which negates voice from flowing down your cables.

the vertical line is just data flow, along with the <--> lines... meaning data flows both ways..  Hard to just use keystrokes to represent networking diagrams...  :)
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by:Fatal_Exception
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FYI:  in your diagram you have the phone/dsl splitter jacked in AFTER your modem..  It must be placed BEFORE the modem and split there...  therefore, you will have 2 lines to each room, not 1.
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by:cfourkays
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In the, ahem, old days, when we prewired a house, we would split a pair off the Cat5, which has 4 pairs, and terminate that in the female RJ-11.
One problem that evolves from using the same cable for data and voice is that ringing voltage is 50 to 90 V has has been known to cause problems with data transmission. (I question that).
Now, 3 cables are run, a coax for TV included.
As Fatal explained, a "home run" is usually required at the router location. From here, you branch off your voice and data lines.

If I was doing your job, I would use a wireless router with Netgear Powerline adapters. Plug 'em into the wall and away you go.
But that doesn't answer your question.
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by:creston009
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From the responses, it looks like I won't be able to use the set of cables for voice and data at the same time.

If I were to use these cat5e exclusively for data, why am I only getting one light to show up on the switch? They should all light up, should they not?
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cfourkays earned 100 total points
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Just to make sure, you know that you will only get a light on your Linksys swich when there is a PC terminated on the numbered port.(?)
If # 1 is lit, I'm assuming you have a PC termination on that port. Do you have 7 more PC's, one at the end of each run?
Pete
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by:pseudocyber
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Hi I'm late as well, but have read all the way through.

Couple of things:
1.) Switches don't pass Plain Old Telephone Service (POTS) signals through.  
2.) All "drops" (rooms with jacks) should have 2 or more cables run, one for each device - such as phone, computer, audio, video, etc.
3.) Going from Cat3 to Cat5 - makes the whole system Cat3.
4.) While it's possible to "split off" unused pairs for POTS voice from data, its inadvisable and no professional (including me) should tell you it's OK to do it.
5.) There are DSL patch panels for home installation, like this one:  http://www.smarthome.com/865102.HTML

If you want to put voice AND data over ONE line, you can do it with Voice Over IP (VOIP).  This would be beyond the scope of this question, but basically you can convert the POTS into IP at your distribution point (closet) and distribute it over your data network.  Professional VOIP phones have two jacks (and a small switch) so that you plug the phone into the wall, and the PC into the phone.

If I were going to wire your home, I would pull multiple lines to each drop and then terminate them all at the central location.  Then, you can easily move a given jack from voice to data with a patch cable.

Hope this helps.
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by:creston009
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Hello all,

I apologize for the slow response. My dsl modem is dying a slow death. I am waiting for verizon to ship the replacement and will post a picture of what I am doing. I have practically no upload speed and connections are dropped every few minutes. It takes the patience of Job just to load a page.
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by:pseudocyber
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Could be a spyware/virus infection.
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by:cfourkays
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Hang in there, creston.
We'll be here.
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by:Fatal_Exception
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Yea, sure wish we could just all get a FTTH connection, eh?
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by:cfourkays
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here ya go, Fatal.
I've got customers in Traditions here in FL with it.
Provided by a small Co called Home Town Telephone.  www.hometowntelephone.net
What a dream to work with. Customers call me to network there PC's and I tell them you already are. I call their tech support and get their VP.
Everything terminates to a box in the garage which is what our friend wants to do.
Look at the prices:

""This service has blazing speeds of 16Mbps/2Mbps. This is the fastest Internet service available to residential customers in the State of Florida.$39.95
per monthThis package includes the following features:
10 E-Mailboxes 10MB 16Mbps Broadband Connection  Home Town Max Internet
Enhanced Internet service from Home Town Cable that offers even faster upload and download speeds than standard high speed Internet service. No Modem or Phone line is required.$22.95
per monthThis package includes the following features:
10 E-Mailboxes 10MB 8Mbps Broadband Connection Home Town Express Internet
Enhanced Internet service from Home Town Cable Plus that offers even faster upload and download speeds than standard high speed Internet service. No Modem or Phone line is required.$15.95
per monthThis package includes the following features:
10 E-Mailboxes 10MB 5Mbps Broadband Connection""
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by:creston009
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pseudocyber says:
<b>Could be a spyware/virus infection.</b>

No, it wasn't a software issue because I just did a fresh format of my OS.
It also wasn't my computer hardware because the same problem persisted on other computers.
The modem arrived today, and after I swapped it, my connection is back to normal. :)

Thanks to everyone who replied. I think I got it now. Here is what my network now looks like (got it set up today):
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l275/creston009/idea.jpg

I have six Cat5e cables. I decided to use two for my simple dsl network, and the remaining four cables for voice. I removed the switch from the setup as it's not necessary. The two rooms that now have dsl connection don't have voice but that's a fair trade off to me.  It will spare me the arduous task of fishing new cables through the walls.

Pseudocyber, may I ask you a question from your first post?

Will a dsl patch panel allow me to have both voice and data on all 6 cat5e cables? If yes, then I will look into getting one of those.

cfourkays says:
<b>If # 1 is lit, I'm assuming you have a PC termination on that port. Do you have 7 more PC's, one at the end of each run?</b>

Thanks for reminding me. I know it sounds stupid, but I recently set up both computers to do data transfer via cross over cable and I forgot to remove the assigned workgroup IP's, so the other comp could not get an ip assigned to it by the router.

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by:cfourkays
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You've got it.
Notice that once you isolate your voice, you can do anything with them. A pair is a pair is a pair..
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by:Fatal_Exception
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Yep, glad to see you are now operating normally..  That patch panel is only that, a patch panel..  it does not allow for mixing the signals, from my experience... Patch panels are used primarily for punching down lines, and for organization.  You will still need separate lines in place..

Best of luck, and happy computing!  :)

cfour..  Yea, I (we) have 3 housing developments that are FTTH, and I have installed Fiber Networks in the models we are running there..  (I only set up the endpoints, routers, etc., as ATT was responsible for the last mile, obviously..)  If I trusted the housing market, I might even move into one of them..  :)

FE
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by:creston009
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Good info from everyone but unfortunately, I only have so much points to give, so I just split it up as best I know how. FE gets extra points for offering additional advice outside of the site and for being so nice about it. See you all around the site. Thank you all.  =)
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by:Fatal_Exception
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Thanks, and hope to see you back when you have other questions...

FE
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by:pseudocyber
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>>Will a dsl patch panel allow me to have both voice and data on all 6 cat5e cables?

No.  That patch panel allows PHONE signals to all the cables attached, with DSL filtering already applied - so you don't need umpteen DSL filters through the house.

Forget the idea of mixing phone and data on the same cable. :)
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by:cfourkays
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Glad we helped, creston.
Hope to see you back.
Nice job in supplying the schematics.
Pete
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