cant put two devices on one IDE port

Hi All,

I recenlty bought a new DVD drive to replace my old CD-burner.

I didn't note how the three devices were setup on the two IDE ports (i.e. which device was on which IDE cable, and what their jumper settings were), i just swapped the CD for the DVD.  But it didn't detect it the new DVD drive.

Thinking this maybe a power issue i put the dvd drive onto it's own IDE cable, this seemed to work as the bios could detect it.  however, when I plugged the two hard drives onto a single IDE cable - only one of them would be picked up.  i think I've tried every combination of Device with - master / slave / CS etc... but none seem to work.

So i thought i'd put the old CD drive back in, but it didn't work either.  


Now it seems whenever i put two devices on one IDE port one of them wont be detected.


It worked with the CD drive before i meddled, so i'm sure i'm making a mistake somewhere...


Any suggestions?


LVL 2
detox1978Asked:
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detox1978Author Commented:
Sorry, forgot to mention my old setup was two hard drives and a CD burner.
CallandorCommented:
You should set the jumper to be the same as the CDROM drive.  If it isn't detected, try moving the cursor to it in the BIOS and hitting Enter to autodetect it.  Try another cable also.
detox1978Author Commented:
What should the CD rom be set at?


I will try a new cable, are there different types of IDE cables?
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ammowagonCommented:
Assuming you have 2 CD's and 1 HD put the HD as master on IDE1 and one of your CD Drives as slave on IDE1 then put your DVD as Master on IDE2. This should allow it to work. (Also can set all 3 drives to 'auto' depending on how new the drives are. If this doesn't work go into your computer bios and make sure the ide controllers are set to auto. This should do it. If not i agree that something is wrong with your IDE cable with the 2 adapters.

And yeah there are 2 types of IDE cables IDE-40 pin  and IDE 80-pin. The 80 pin have smallers wires and are closer together.

Hope this helps!
detox1978Author Commented:
All have been setup to Autodetect in the bios.

i have two hard drives, one cd drive and one DVD drive.

Any combination where they are more than one on an IDE cable will result in one (usually the slave) not being detected or occationally detected incorrectly.


I'll get some new IDE cables...


Whats the difference between 40 and 80 pins.



D
PCBONEZCommented:
It is not "IDE-40 pin  and IDE 80-pin"
It is IDE-40 -wires- and IDE 80 -wires-.
~~ Both types have 40 pins.
The extra conductors in the 80 wire are all ground wires which have the same effect as using shielding in other types of cables. (Better signal quality and so better data transfer characteristics.)

Yes, make sure none of the drives are set to disabled in the BIOS setup.

I also suggest you replace your IDE cable.
You may have a broken conductor inside the insulation from handling it.
ammowagonCommented:
80 pins are Ultra DMA

the 80 pins are backwards compatible for older devices.

I'd put your 2 HD's on one ide chain and your 2 cd/dvd drives on the other. This should be more efficient for burning/speed.
PCBONEZCommented:
Before you ask: The 40 wire and 80 wire cables fit the same drive and mainboard connectors.
The big difference is the 40 wire is limited to 33 MB/sec data transfer rates and the 80 wire can handle up to 133 MB/sec (or higher.).
jdietrichCommented:
What are the make\models of the hard drives and cdr/dvdr?
Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Most of the relevant issues have been addressed already, but are a bit scattered in the discussion, so I'll try to focus them a bit:

(1)  Don't worry about the IDE cables for now.  Whether you have 40-wire or 80-wire cables does not impact whether they will work;  only the speed of the transfers.   You can always change them later; but for now just get the devices set correctly.   ammowagon's reference to 40 or 80 pins is, of course, wrong (as pcbonez already noted).

(2)  If one of your hard drives is a Western Digital, you probably have it jumpered incorrectly.  WD drives have a DIFFERENT jumper setting for "Master" and "Master with Slave".   You should have your main hard drive set as Master; and you second hard drive set as Slave; and both on the primary IDE channel for the system.   If you have ANY doubts about whether they are jumpered correctly post the make/model of the drives and we'll help.

(3)  The optical drive (DVD) drive should be jumpered as Master, and connected at the end of the cable attached to the secondary IDE channel.   From what you've indicated, you're only using one optical drive (is that correct?), since you said you were "replacing" the CD-R/W.  ... but you COULD jumper the CD-R/W as a slave and use both optical drives.

(4)  Do this one step at a time.   Connect the two hard drives with NO optical drive and confirm you "see" both hard drives=> so you know the hard drives are jumpered and connected correctly.   THEN connect the DVD drive.   But be SURE you've got the jumpers set correctly first.
detox1978Author Commented:
Thanks for all the info.


In answer to Garys questions.


(1) ok.. :-)

(2) One of the HD is a Western Digital, and it does have "Master" and "Master with Slave" - i'm 99% sure that this is not the boot HD.  I think the other is a seagate.

(3) Yes, i'm only using one optical drive, as i dont have 3 power connections - when i get a 4th i'll probably repost :-)

(4) I've tried connecting the HD on the same IDE cable without the Optical drive, but it would only see one of them.... I think this maybe because one is a western digital.




How should i configure the jumpers on the HD.... i need the Seagate to be the boot HD.



Many thanks again.


D

Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
First, to keep it simple, do this:  

Jumper the Seagate as Master.   Connect it on the primary IDE channel connected to the end connector on the cable.   Do not connect the other hard drive.   Also, be sure the DVD drive is jumpered as Master, and connect it to the end connector on the other IDE channel.   Now boot the system and see if it (a) boots okay; and (b) "sees" both the hard drive and the DVD drive.   If by any chance it does not see the DVD drive, boot to the BIOS setup and see if IT "sees" the optical drive => if so, XP may have some corrupted filters and we can resolve that with a simple registry modification (removing your upper and lower filters).

If the above works fine,  THEN be sure the WD drive is jumpered as a Slave and connect it to the second connector on the main IDE channel (same cable as the Seagate).   Boot again => this time it should also be seen.    ... if that works well, you're done.   If not, post back with the status of what did/didn't work and we'll go from there ...


PCBONEZCommented:
No, 80 pins are SCA SCSI... Not IDE at all

40 wires (40 pins) is Ultra DMA33 (a.k.a. UDMA-33, ATA-33)
80 wires (40 pins) is Ultra DMA66/100/133 (same a.k.a. format)

The cables are physically interchangable.
If the drive supports UDMA33 (optical drives and most hard drives should but some newer hard drives may not) then an UDMA66/100/133 cable can be used in place of an UDMA33 cable but the transfer rate will be limited to UDMA33.
An UDMA66/100/133 cable can always replace an UDMA33 cable.
The best thing to do is always buy 80 -WIRE- UDMA66/100/133 cables because the difference in cost is nill, they work better even on an UDMA33 drive, and they are always compatible.
.
A DVD running at 16x is only 22.16 MB/sec.
A CD running at 48x is only 7.20 MB/sec.
Optical drives work fine with UDMA33 (33 MB/sec) cables as long as only one drive is running on that cable.
In fact a 16x DVD and a 48x CD on the same cable is still less than 30 MB/sec (<90% of UDMA33) with both drives running at the same time.
.
Hard drives move data much faster. - So still buy 80 wire cables.
This way later on you won't have to replace cables over performance issues if you want to remove an optical drive and replace it with a hard drive.
.
detox1978Author Commented:
Turns out it was the power supply.  Not sure how/why.  but i replaced the psu and now it works.


thanks for your help.
DarthModCommented:
Closed, 500 points refunded.
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