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Broadband engineers - check internal BT wiring

Posted on 2006-10-20
Medium Priority
Last Modified: 2008-02-01
We have clients who we have activated ADSL broadband, but cannot connect due to problems with internal wiring.
We know the connection to ADSL works if we remove the face plate from the main BT socket, but as soon as we replace it, there is no connection.
THis is apparently a definitive test for ewither faulty internal extension wiring or filters.
We have checked all filters.

The ISP is not BT Retail.
The clients have voice under BT retail.
BT Retail engineers will only check the internel wiring for PSTN/voice.
BT Retail confirm all internal wiring is ok as far as they are concerned but say "you need a broadband engineer to sort out the problem anbd we are not your ISP"

The ISP we resell the service on to customers from is also now advising we need an independent broadband engineer.

BT Wholesale, who provision the ADSL at the telephone exchange for the ISP, will only check ADSL gets as far as the main BT socket that enters the premises.

It seems we need to find an independent engineer - possibly a former BT employee? - who we can subcontract such tests to.
Any ideas where to start apart from the yellow pages?
Is there an onlini forum or job ads website we can recruit someone on a self employed or casual work basis?


Question by:rutlandict
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LVL 31

Expert Comment

ID: 17776074
It is the responsibility of their ISP to deal with your fault.  *They* have got to kick BT if there is a problem with the infrastructure.  Don't forget that there are two BT companies in the world today (as far as this scenario is concerned), there's the BT that provides telephony and there's BT that supplies broadband - they are two separate companies.  Basically the ISP (I seem to think) gets charged for calling upon BT erroneously, so they will do everything in their power to reduce their exposure to that charge.  I have had this bull from a few ISP's#, and you just have to confirm that the tests have been done or are totally unrealistic for the consumer to do.  If you do not get anywhere with that, complain to BT's Complaints department.  They are in Newcastle and are very helpful, sympathetic and can kick ass where it is needed.  

#Pipex took a few days to finally take ownership of a fault which was clearly their responsibility from Day One.
LVL 31

Expert Comment

ID: 17776228

Subsequent to that problem BT Complaints rang me (one Sunday morning!) to see if the problem had been resolved to the client's satisfaction.  By the end of that conversation they were fully appraised of the tests that Pipex had asked the client to carry out, and the responses.  It would thus help if you kept a log of the phone conversations you have with the ISP.

Author Comment

ID: 17777233
We are a Pipex/Nildram reseller.
I hear what you say but they will nto budge and maintain BT Wholesale have changed their standpoint recently to only deal with the main socket.

It has always been the case that if BTW do find the fault is with the internal wiring then the ISP is charged I agree, but I also can see the ISPs point that they could pass that charge on to us as the reseller. So I want to reduce that exposure/risk - hence the question/request.

We would still like the option requested in the question because
a) IT could be a lot faster
b) We could charge it as a service
c) We reduce the risk on charges from Pipex

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LVL 31

Expert Comment

ID: 17777365
I would say it would be cheaper and quicker to call the ISP's bluff.  Getting a broadband engineer in is going to either be expensive (there is a glut of people from the likes of Talk Talk waiting to be connected that anyone good at broadband doesn't need to be twiddling their thumbs) or is not going to guarantee what the problem is without the cooperatioin of the appropriate division within BT.  BT charge for that kind of interaction.  Even with the engineer you are still not going to be able to move forward until you receive a formal letter from this Engineer.  In the meantime Pipex/Nildram will do nothing to locate the fault.  Statistically, in my experience the chances are worth a punt that the fault is non-chargeable - if you've tried different micro-filters, different cables, different routers then the problem is not a customer problem.  

You are mentioning about the BT Socket.  Is it a two-part socket?  If it is I take it that the test you did was to plug the microfilter into the internal embedded socket?  BT say that if this test works then the problem is with the customer's equipment, but if no amendment has been made internally to the socket then it could simply be that the removable section of the two-part box is faulty.
LVL 31

Assisted Solution

moorhouselondon earned 300 total points
ID: 17777412
If other extensions are fed from this master socket then remove these wires and see if this cures the problem.  If it does then that points the finger at whatever is connected at the other end of those wires.  Do those wires end up at extension sockets that have micro-filters attached?

Author Comment

ID: 17777556
What we call the definitive socket is a BT 2-part socket. You can undo the 2 screws and take the front plate off. We then put the filter str8 into the exposed socket to which the router is attached.

When we do this we get a connection.

We  have installed over 100 ADSL connections so we are familiar with changing filters, routers etc.
We are confident the fault lies with the internal wiring.

I cannot see how it is the ISPs problem to sort out the faulty internal wiring in the house which then stops a connection when the face plate is placed back on.  

Even if it was it is taking too long! - they are not willing to wait ages for the problem to be resolved in a culture of blame (since he BT Retail/Wholesale split). The main problem is there is no SLA between BTW and the ISPs, and so we cannot pass one on to the clients.

 Our clients are willing to pay for this to be done - hence the original question..
We would rather hire someone to remove those extensions you mention and work out where the fault lies by a process of elimintation.
If we start meddling with them, the phones may stop working then we are in a greater mess.

LVL 31

Expert Comment

ID: 17777664
>I cannot see how it is the ISPs problem to sort out the faulty internal wiring in the house which then stops a connection when the face plate is placed back on.  

Yes I agree with you 100% there.

You don't need a broadband engineer for this problem.  All you need is a competent BT installer.  I know more than a few.  How to find one?  Hmmm.  If you don't want to give BT the work then one way is to go into your friendly neighbourhood business centre and ask if you can borrow their Comms guy for an hour or two (chargeable of course).  If they don't have one in-house then they should be able to give a recommendation.  
LVL 12

Expert Comment

ID: 17785927
Where are you? We deal with stuff like this all the time - sometimes it can be a problem with a totally unrelated bit of kit. We have had times when a sky plus box is plugged into an incorrectly wired extension, and this takes out the DSL. I have also known a problem with a Freeview box that for some reason started transmitting rather than just receiving, and generated so much interference that it took out the DSL.

We have also provided local support for companies who have their main offices the other side of the country.

You might be able to deal with a local IT company who can help out.



Author Comment

ID: 17786829
Near Leicester.
We are an IT company but I have reservations about any of us fiddling with their telephone wires, partly because one of the clients has a secure government line - well that is how it was described to me. I think one phone line was split (DACS??) to give 2 phone numbers. Broadband went on ok - we tested it at the main soket. When one of our engineers took the face plate of the wiring looked loose. So I'm sure it has got something to do with that and will search locally for a telecoms engineer unless dalesit can visit!
LVL 12

Accepted Solution

dalesit earned 750 total points
ID: 17787003
We're based in North Yorkshire, but travel further afield if clients are willing to pay for the travel and job appropriately. If you are interested, give me a ring on 07768 803758.



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