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Which slot for an  AGP card?

Posted on 2006-11-02
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Last Modified: 2013-11-08
Hi

I have the following motherboard:         ASUS P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP

http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=0&model=1179&modelmenu=1

According to the specs here are my expansion slots:
2 x PCI-E x16 (blue @ x16 mode, black @ x2 or x4 mode)
1 x PCI-E x1 (x1 or diabled mode)
3 x PCI 2.2

I already have a Matrox Parhelia APVe 128MB Dual DVI PCI-Express Video board installed in the motherboard using the: PCI Express x16

For two of my applications I need to install a seonc video board.  I have two questions.  
1)  Can I use two video cards on the same Windows XP machine?  (I assume I could do this via making two different hardware configurations, but am not sure.

2)  For the two special applications I need to buy one of the following cards:    NVIDIA GeForce or ATI Radeon based AGP video card.  My question does my motherboard support a AGP video card?  In other words which available expansion slot would I put that in?

Thanks

Rowby
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Question by:Rowby Goren
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by:cbwboca
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1: yes you can add another PCIE video card in your system and it should work fine.
2: You do not have an AGP slot in this MOBO so you will have to find a card with  PCIE for your application.


Best luck,
Lousi,
 
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by:garycase
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Of course you can use a 2nd video card ... just plug it in :-)   But NO, you can't use an AGP video card ... your system only supports PCI Express and PCI.   You can, however, use another PCI Express card ... it will simply run at the slower x4 speed (in the black slot).
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by:Callandor
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>1)  Can I use two video cards on the same Windows XP machine?  (I assume I could do this via making two different hardware configurations, but am not sure.

Yes, an additional PCI-e card should work, as long as you don't run them in SLI mode.  A PCI video card should work, too, though it will not be as high in performance.  It is best to use the same manufacturer to avoid driver conflicts.

>2)  For the two special applications I need to buy one of the following cards:    NVIDIA GeForce or ATI Radeon based AGP video card.  My question does my motherboard support a AGP video card?  In other words which available expansion slot would I put that in?

You don't have an AGP slot, so you can't use an AGP card.  The application should not care if you are using an AGP or PCI-e video card.  It probably won't work well on a PCI video card, and PCI-e may not have existed then, so that may be why they are specifying AGP.
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by:t_ger
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Hey Rowby.

In answer to your questions:

1. Yes. (Simple answer, huh?)
    Window XP (from 98 and up) support multi VGA adapters and multi monitors. This basically means that you can connect as many video adapters to you computer as you physically can. One PCI-X16 one X4, one PCI and even use an onboard if you have.
But, you cannot connect both cards to the same monitor. -> This feature is known as SLI (for Nvidia cards) or Crossfire (ATI cards). This feature allows you to connect two identical VGA cards that support this feature, on a supporting board and connect them with a special "Bridge" in order to combine the two GPU (Graphic Processing Unit) into one that will be theoretically twice as strong.
Your board supports Crossfire technology, by the way.

You CAN however connect the monitor to One adapter and usually the computer will find out alone with VGA card gets a return signal so that will activate the display adapter and you can use the hardware settings under "My computer" properties in order to activate or disable the other vga adapter.

2. No. Your board uses the now PCI Express slots and not the AGP. Since AGP is an older and seems to be fading into the past, don't worry about it. Since usually what they mean is that you will need an AGP card is accually an accelerated VGA adapter, and the PCI-X VGA cards are just that. Only newer generation.
To put it simply,
Both PCI-X and AGP are basically VGA adapters. Thats all. AGP is no longer used and it is getting very hard to find AGP cards at a decent price.
Use the PCI-X. It should work fine unless your GPU is not compatible, and then you will need to buy a different card that has a GPU that supports the graphic acceleration required, like the Geforce, and the Radeon.
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by:garycase
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"... It is best to use the same manufacturer to avoid driver conflicts. " ==>  Of course I agree ... BUT it's not possible in this case.   He's got a Matrox card now; and requires an ATI or nVidia based card :-)

rowby =>  Have you TRIED the applications on your system?   Just curious whether they really require ATI or nVidia, or if they simply specified them because they were the most common cards.
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by:Smacky311
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I do not believe that there exists a motherboard that supports AGP and PCI-x
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by:Rowby Goren
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Thanks everyone  for your expert comments.  

Yes, Garycase,  I have tried the Matrox with at least one of the applications and the application would not load.

(I will contact the company and double check to see if a non AGP card will work, based on your comments about AGP being an older card.)

Here, by the way is a link to the application's spec requirements, which perhaps you can comment on before I contact the company, which is Serious Magic -- a very responsive company support-wise, by the way.

The Program is Visual Communicator Studio.  

http://www.seriousmagic.com/products/vc/vcSpecs.cfm    YOu will see on that page that the following snippet:

Requirements for Full Screen Output:
    * 16MB AGP graphics card with 3D acceleration
      (Note: Laptop owners should verify that they have 3D accelerated graphics hardware such as a GeForce, Radeon or Intel 830 chip)
    * Camcorders require compatible video input on PC

Requirements for Live Streaming: STUDIO  ***(WHICH IS WHAT I WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO) ***

    * Intel® Pentium® 4 processor at 2.4 GHz or higher
    * NVIDIA GeForce or ATI Radeon based AGP video card

I await any further comments before I contact Serious Magic.

Rowby
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by:garycase
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You may also be able to use your current card if you simply run your special applications in a virtual machine under VMWare Server (a free download -- http://www.vmware.com/products/server/).   The "VMWare SVGA-II driver" works fine with many applications that require accelerated 3D graphics as long as the host system's graphics device supports acceleration (which your Parhelia does).   I don't know if your applications will work with it ... but you may want to give it a try.   You do have to enable 3D acceleration in the virtual machine (see page 388 here:  http://www.vmware.com/pdf/ws55_manual.pdf).
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by:Rowby Goren
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Hi Gary, I will at least try that out -- later today.  

Rowby
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by:garycase
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Smacky311 -->  r.e. "... I do not believe that there exists a motherboard that supports AGP and PCI-x " ==>  Yes, there are; but that's not relevant to this discussion, since the motherboard in question does not have both slots.

rowby --> In reviewing the specs for Serious Magic, there is virtually no doubt it will work fine with a PCIe video card.   The "AGP" requirement is really just a requirement for a faster interface than PCI would provide;   and the PCEe interface (even restricted to 4X) is still faster than AGP ==> so it will almost certainly work fine.   Wouldn't hurt to confirm that with the company, however.


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by:Rowby Goren
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Thanks garycase.  

After I test the virtual machine I will contact seriousmagic -- they may simply need to update their specs.

Rowby
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by:garycase
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Note that after you install VMWare Server you will have to create your virtual machine and then load an operating system on it (any OS you want to ... probably XP in this case).
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by:Rowby Goren
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Good. I'll make sure I do that too.
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by:Rowby Goren
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Garycase,  

I have the windows xp installation disk.  How do I install it on the virtual server?  I see the folder I created for the virtual server...  Do I install it there -- how do I tell xp to install it there??

Rowby
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by:Rowby Goren
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Nevermind I"m installing xp now on the virtual machine...  Stay tuned.
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by:Rowby Goren
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OkAY windows xp installed in the virtual server (even if this doesn't solve my video card problem, this is an interesting experiment!)

When I start to run visual communicator I get a warning that "Visual COmmunicaor may not work correctly with less than 8 MG of display adapter memory.   Detected 0 MB   Recommended 16 MG.

Digging deeper I see that the Matrox card is not being recognized at all by the virtual system. I am wondering if there are any other switch settings I can add in the virtual machine's vmx file???  

Again if this doesn't work, no problem  It's an interesting applicaiton...

Rowby
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by:Rowby Goren
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One thing i notice is vm says I do not have vm tools installed.  Is that required?  I'm looking on the vm website for the tools.  Still looking....


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VM Tools is not required ... but I'd suggest doing it -> it will, for example, let you seamlessly move the mouse between your virtual and "real" system (without having to press the right-Alt key).   There's nothing to download ... just boot your virtual machine (XP), and, on the VM Menu, select "Install VMWare Tools".   It will load a virtual CD into the virtual machines CD "drive" => and it will then automatically install :-)

The Matrox card will NOT be recognized ==> the Virtual Machine is just that:  Virtualized.  The virtual machine has the same CPU as your "real" system; an Intel 440BX chipset;  a VMWare SVGA II display driver with 16MB of memory (not sure why your program doesn't see that 16MB);  a VMWare Accelerated AMD PCNet Adapter;  a Creative AudioPCI sound card (no matter what your "real" sound card is); a virtual DVD ROM drive; as much memory as you told it to have ... and that's basically it.

The similar Microsoft Virual PC (which is also free ... but doesn't perform as well as VMWare) emulates a 440BX chipset, S3 Trio Video Card, Intel/DEC 21140 Network card; and the Soundblaster 16 ISA PNP sound card.

It doesn't matter WHAT your actual hardware is ==> operating systems installed in a virtual machine will "see" the hardware I just listed.

As you've noted, it works neat ... and is interesting to "play" with.   I have virtual machines with just about every OS Microsoft has released (remember Windows for Workgroups ?) ... and have installed the RC1 for Vista in one as well (fun to look at what they've changed without having to actually change my main machine).

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by:Rowby Goren
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Hi

I am going to play with it more over the weekend.   I will also check out the microsoft Virtual PC.  

Stay tuned!
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by:garycase
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You'll like Virtual PC as well ==> it also has a set of additions ("Virtual Machine Additions") which you should install.  They work just like the VMWare Tools ... you just select "Install or Update Virtual Machine Additions" from the "Action" menu, and Virtual PC "inserts" a CD into the virtual drive and the additions get installed.

Both of the virtualization products work very well ... and are a neat way of trying operating systems without needing a bunch of spare systems (and of course it's completely safe ... the virtualized system is totally isolated => you could intentionally infect it with tons of viruses, malware, etc. and it would have NO impact on your "real" system).
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by:Rowby Goren
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Hi

I installed the windows virtual pc 2007 beta.  Installed the XP operating system.  But when I try to install a new program (the visual communicator dvd) the system keeps telling me to insert a disk in the cd drive.  

Any thoughts on this?  Note DVD properties tab calls it type:  CD Drive.  Even though windows explorer is calling it properly a DVD drive.  Also it will not recognize a regular cd.    THis happens whether or not I checkmark "Attach CD or DVD to primary IDE controller" or uncheck it.

Is it really seeing my CD/DVD?  Or is it seeing a virtual CD/DVD -- I notice in the DVD properties tab it is calling it a MS C/DVD-ROM

Rowby
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by:garycase
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I don't have the 2007 beta installed (I have Virtual PC 2004) ... so something may be a bit different => but basically you can set which actual drive will be linked to the "virtual drive".   So if you select "Use physical drive E:" (if E: is your real DVD) then it should use that drive.   I also rarely use a "real" CD  (not the drive - the media).   I create an ISO image of it, and then just attach the ISO image to the virtual machine's drive ("Capture ISO Image" does this in Virtual PC).
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by:Rowby Goren
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Yes I saw the Use physical  drive and am using it.  But because Visual commuinicator needs 3 dvds (and Virtual PC won't recognize when I switch DVD's I will make an iso of those 3 dvd';s.

Thanks for confirming what I slowly dawning on me!

Rowby

Stay TUned.


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by:Rowby Goren
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Well I think Visual Communicator will not work in the virtual setup.  It seems to be very fussy about the video card. It is seeing 0 meg of video memory.  I think VC (a video application) is very hardwired into what it wants to see in a video card.  

According to the Device Manager, the Microsoft video driver is showing up as a PCI slot, and that is just not enough for the minimum requirements of the program.  

I will keep the question open for a few days -- maybe there's a plugin for windows virtual machine that can "upgrade" it's built in video driver.

HOWEVER learning about virtual machines is going to be very handy.  So I've learned something here.

I've not 100 giving up on a virtual machine solution for Visual Communicator.I'm still waiting for their Tech support to get back to me regarding using a PCI express instead of a AGP card.

So stay tuned!

Rowby

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by:garycase
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I'd agree the program is not likely to work in a virtual machine ==> but I have no doubt it will work fine with an nVidia or ATA-based PCI Express card.   The software is simply looking for a Radeon or GEForce-based card at a certain minimum speed.   But you did learn a good bit about virtual machines => and I'm sure you'll use that in the future :-)   [It's nice to be able to install new (or old) OS's to experiment without having to maintain a separate machine for that purpose (although I actually keep both "real" and "virtual" machines handy with all of the older OS's]
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