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IP general understanding

Posted on 2006-11-06
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Hi there,
I have a question in regards of IP in general, is said to be unreliable but why if is working fine? I know that has the limits of grow and some other buts here and there but whats unreliable about it? i was doing a search on it and i found that the errors that was not getting capture in their previous version IPv4 are been fix in IPv6 but what are those types of errors? and if the errors ara not been detected how are they been handle?
Probably is a broad question but what i'm trying to get here is a more understandable way in plain english rather than the book definition or explanation that is just confussing. If any one can halp me to have a better understanding i will realy appreciate.
Thanks
JSCTECHY  
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Question by:jsctechy
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by:Steve Knight
ID: 17880791
IP isn't doing too bad considering it was designed when there were a handful of computers and now their are billions of interconnected systems... victim of it's own success which is why IPv6 is there to increase the amount of addresses available etc.

Steve
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by:jsctechy
ID: 17880882
well that i know and thats rewriting what i wrote in my original question..... yoiu never mention anything about the errors portion?
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by:RPPreacher
ID: 17881058
>I have a question in regards of IP in general, is said to be unreliable

Actually this is a very specific technical definition of "reliable".  It has nothing to do with IPv6 or the number of computers or that hooey.  Shesh.

"Reliable" means that receipt of packets are confirmed.
"Unreliable" means receipt of packets are not confirmed also called "best effort delivery" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_effort_delivery)
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Smacky311 earned 250 total points
ID: 17881514
IP is connectionless meaning that it sends data without making sure the computer its sending data to even exists.  It also is unreliable because at the Network layer (which IP operates in) there is no guaranteed delivery of packets, if it makes it great, if it doesnt then oh well.  Reliable delivery can be assured using TCP, but this is done in the Transport layer.  Even though upper layers can assure reliability, IP in and of itself cannot therefore the protocol is unreliable.  IPv6 addresses some security concerns of IPv4 which include IPSec.  IPSec is optional in IPv4, but required in IPv6.  Also, Layer 2 MAC addresses are not statically bound to IP addresses as they are in IPv6 (no need for ARP).  This makes spoofing more difficult.  It uses a hierarchical addressing scheme and ICMP discovery protocol to aid routers in creating lookup tables that are not so complex and time consuming to perform lookups.  As far as errors, one consideration is duplicate IP addresses, but this issue is still not resolved in IPv6.  There are other issues of course, but this should give you a general idea.  
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by:cjtraman
ID: 17881655
Many featurewise enhancements has been made in IPv6. When IPv4 is created, the creators did not foresee the phenomenal growth of networked computers in IP network. They created four octed address range in IP network but the grwoth in IP network resulted in scarcity of ip addresses to be assigned to client. Many ISPs tried to circumvent this problem by subnetting the ip range and share with different clients. But this can be taken as quick fix but not permanent solution. The IP community now developed IPv6 to circumvent addresses problem. IPv6 includes all features of IPv4 as well as few enhancements like anycast.
http://nislab.bu.edu/sc546/sc441Spring2003/ipv6/v4_v6.htm
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by:jsctechy
ID: 17881923
now that you guys brough up the IPv6 i have a curiosity question i remenber reading somewhere that IPv4 uses the prefix 128. for loopoing purposes if I'm not mistaken??/ :-)
 but now with more bits added from IPv4 (32bits) to 128 what an address like this one ould looks like in IPv6
128.128.128.128
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by:RPPreacher
ID: 17881953
IPv4 loopback address 127.x.x.x

The IPv6 loopback address is: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 (or more simply, ::1)
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by:jsctechy
ID: 17881955
what i'm trying to see is what the nonzero part woul looks like in a such a address
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by:jsctechy
ID: 17881974
so wait that address will looks like this then:
128.128.128.128.0.0.0.0
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by:RPPreacher
ID: 17881976
::1 is the loopback address in v6.
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by:RPPreacher
ID: 17881988
No.

It would look like this

::1

That's it.  ::1 nothing else.

::1
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by:RPPreacher
ID: 17882002
IPv6 does not use decimal notation, by the way.

For a fundamental overview of IPv6, check this PDF
http://www.ipv6tf.org/PublicDocuments/IPv6_Made_Sexy.pdf
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by:RPPreacher
ID: 17882038
Wrong link
http://www.6net.org/events/training-2003/ipv6-basics.pdf

page 58 talks about loopback
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by:jsctechy
ID: 17882263
ok but non of those link will show me what the address 128.128.128.128 would looks like in IPv6???????????????????
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by:Smacky311
ID: 17882829
It is because you are asking the wrong question.  128.128.128.128 does not directly translate into IPv6.  IPv6 layer 3 addresses are derived directly from the layer 2 addresses.  The layer 3 addresses in IPv4 (e.g. 128.128.128.128) is assigned by DHCP simply from a pool of available addresses or assigned statically by the user.  
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by:jsctechy
ID: 17882877
so therefore that address will not get translate to IPv6, so no one will be able to use it?
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by:jsctechy
ID: 17882891
so i guess what my question should be is What would the non-zero part of the IPv4 address, 128.128.128.128 look like in IPv6.
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by:Smacky311
ID: 17882909
Maybe it will be more clear when you see what an IPv6 address looks like:

2001:471:1f11:251:290:27ff:fee0:2093
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by:Smacky311
Smacky311 earned 250 total points
ID: 17882993
To be clear there is a version of IPv6 that is meant for backwards compatibility with IPv4.  This version reserves the last 2 divisions of the hexadecimal address for the IPv4 address, but it is converted to hex.

E.G.  128.128.128.128....128 converts to 80 in hexadecimal..so it becomes 80.80.80.80......which becomes 2001:471:1f11:251:290:27ff:8080:8080

notice the last 2 parts 8080:8080 is your IPv4 address embedded into the IPv6 address, this is not a complete IPv6 address it is simply a backwards compatibility for IPv4.
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by:giltjr
ID: 17883021
In order to use IPV6 your network need to be IPV6 or you must have a box (typicaly a firewall or router) that acts as a gateway between an IPV6 network and a IPV4 network.  The box will NAT thr IPV6 addresses to a IPV4 address.

A IPV6 host can use both IPV4 and IPV6, and it will have a unique IP address for each version of IP.  There is no "translation."
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by:RPPreacher
ID: 17883039
I think the Basic IPv6 link I sent you will give you a better fundamental understanding of IPv6.  It sounds like a good primer will help.
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by:RPPreacher
ID: 17883129
A lot of these questions seem to come from the wrong understanding that IPv6 is "IPv4 with more numbers" and not a fundamental re-engineering of IP.

Maybe the marketing department should have changed the name...
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