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how do I add a 2nd scsi drive to my system?

Posted on 2006-11-09
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Last Modified: 2008-01-09
background: I am trying to add a scsi hd to my system.  The existing scsi drive is a seagate st318203lc which I believe is a sca model (lvd).  I've got an adapter attached to it (xpl-065f 80/68 converter adapter info here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5722636089 ) and 2 drive connectors, i.e., one end of the cable is connected to the scsi card and that leaves 2 ports (buses?) for attaching drives and or terminators.  currently I have the one drive (st318203lc) connected to the middle drive connector (bus?) and the end connector has a lvd terminator.  Everything is hunky dory.

problem: when I remove the terminator at the end of the cable and try to attach a new seagate scsi drive (sca I think, seagate model st318404lc (lvd I think)) it doesn't recognize the drive.  The new drive has the same adapter (xpl-065f).

I think the problem has to do with termination (or lack thereof) because  I had to take off the terminator to add the new drive.  Do I have to buy a new cable with 3 ports to connect the 2 drives and the terminator?  If so, can you recommend a cable?  Perhaps I can jumper the adapter on the 2nd drive to terminate it?  The adapter jumpers say LED, SYN, DLY, MTR, ID3, ID2, ID1, ID0
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Question by:lmcdonald1
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17905674
I guess I should also add that as-is (with one drive) I didn't have any jumpers on and the drive was/is at id0.  When I tried to add the second drive I didn't make any changes to the jumper settings and I didn't jumper the new drive in any way (should I have?)
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17905677
When I refer to jumpers I am referring to the jumpers on the 80/68 pin adapter/converter
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Accepted Solution

by:
f-king earned 53 total points
ID: 17905753
hi
In order to use scsi you have to terminate the ends in this case the card and the harddrive we're terminated.
how many connectors does the current cable have?
Did you terminate the new drive?
you said that the Scsi card has 2 free ports(buses),why not just get another cable an attach it to one of those free ports and then attach the new drive to the end of that new cable.
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Assisted Solution

by:starstruckgeezer
starstruckgeezer earned 51 total points
ID: 17905757
ive not used scsi drive much but you have to set thier ids so your second drive has to be a different id to the first and you do still have to have the terminator at the end but as for cables??? someone else can provide for you
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Expert Comment

by:f-king
ID: 17905764
Here is some good reading about Scsi
http://www.driverzone.com/drivers/syquest/faqs/tb7036.txt
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17905959
fking here are my answeres
how many connectors does the current cable have?
--3, one end connects to scsi host card and the remaining 2 are for drives and/or termination plug

Did you terminate the new drive?
--I don't know.  I don't think the xpl-065f (80/68 converter adapter) terminates and that might be my problem.  I also tried a 'sca internal adapter IDC50M/HPDB68F/SCA80F with active terminator' that I bought at http://www.pcloft.com/scainadidwit.html but it didn't seem to work in either of the open drive ports on the cable.  Once again, I didn't jumper anything I was hoping it would sense what it should do.

you said that the Scsi card has 2 free ports(buses),why not just get another cable an attach it to one of those free ports and then attach the new drive to the end of that new cable.
--I'd be glad to do that but I don't know what you mean.  Do you mean I can just daisy chain cables like that?  I've read all this stuff about the length of the cable being very important, but it sounds like you know what you're talking about.  The length between the host card and the first drive is long, maybe 12-15 inches, the length between each drive bus is short maybe 6-8 inches.  can I just add another cable like this to the last open drive bus on the cable?
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17906008
starstruckgeezer here are your answers:

ive not used scsi drive much but you have to set thier ids so your second drive has to be a different id to the first
--I thought the sca scsi lvds were designed to be hotswappable?  That is, they didn't require id settings on the jumper.  I don't have a back plane and so this isn't really a hot swap situation, but I would think it could be hot added if I plugged a drive to the cable while the computer is running.

and you do still have to have the terminator at the end but as for cables??? someone else can provide for you
--no, I had to take off the lvd terminator in order to add the second drive.  once again, the cable has 3 jacks, one attaches to the host scsi card, which btw is a PSI Logic model (about 3-4 years old, I can provide the model number if you need it).  I tried adding the second drive using a 80/68 pin converter called 'sca internal adapter idc50m/hpdb68f/sca80f with active terminator' that I bought at http://www.pcloft.com/scainadidwit.html and I thought would take care of the termination, but that didn't work.  I guessing because I had to jumper something or it is incompatible for what I am trying to do.
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Assisted Solution

by:WallD
WallD earned 51 total points
ID: 17906020
You will have to get a new cable with more connectors on as you need to terminate the cable, unless you get a cable that is self terminating (rare) , either way it is a new cable you require.
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17906036
fking:

I checked out the link you gave ( http://www.driverzone.com/drivers/syquest/faqs/tb7036.txt ) but it seems to be talking about 50 pin scsi drives which I think is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

I am using an 80 pin model scsi drives, but my scsi card only has a 68 pin input so thus the 80/68 pin converter adapter that I am attaching to each of the drives I'm trying to add.  I give the names and links to the converters that I am using above.
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Expert Comment

by:WallD
ID: 17906040
Never seen the active terminators though if it was to work it would have to be in the last connector.
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Expert Comment

by:f-king
ID: 17906504
first of all i didn't mean adding another cable to the existing cable.
i meant that you can add another cable to the host scsi card if it has a free port.
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Expert Comment

by:f-king
ID: 17906548
is the cable 80 pin or 68 pin?
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Expert Comment

by:f-king
ID: 17906593
According to this :
http://www.awardone.com.au/menu/frame.htm?/tech/scsi_faq.htm

You only need to terminate the ends of the cable like I stated not every device
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17906842
fking here are your answers:

the cable is 68 pin (the drive is 80 pin (female I think)) and the drive has the 80/68 pin converter attached to the back and that is what the cable is plugged into.

I checked the link you gave and that said this (below) about 'active termination', which leads me to believe I need to jumper something on my 80/68 'active termination' converter to get it to terminate (otherwise it wont I think), but I don't know how to jumper it do you?  You can see specs for the converter here: http://www.pcloft.com/scainadidwit.html

"Active
This type used an voltage regulator to try to hold the end of the cable at a constant voltage, and absorb any signals reaching the end of the line. This is more effective than the Passive Terminator, and is the usual type used on a SCSI bus. As the Active terminator requires power to work, it requires a device on the SCSI bus to provide termination power to the bus. This is usually set by a jumper on the device."

It also said that I'm probably using Ultra2 SCSI or Low Voltage Differential (LVD) scsi drives.
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17906852
fking, sorry forgot to mention that the scsi card does NOT have another port available.
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17907547
googled everywhere and couldn't fine anything about how to jumper 'active terminators' so I'm guessing it doesn't require a jumper to get it to work.  All I found is that you must use the it as the last on the scsi bus chain (which I did) and that you can't mix it with a passive terminator.  I don't know about that.  I do have another converter/adapter on the original drive in the system but I don't think it provides any sort of termination--it is just a converter  here it is here  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5722636089

could it be that the new drive can't be at the end of the scsi chain?  that is where I put it and I plugged it into the 80/68 active terminator converter?
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17913126
Anyone? Anyone?  Bueller?  Still not working...
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Expert Comment

by:f-king
ID: 17913753
did you place the 2 drives on the same cable ,most modern drives have automatic terminating.
Maybe you should get an 80 pin cable.
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17921313
Yes, they are on the same cable.  It is a very simple setup.  host scsi card -> cable ->cable bus1 ->cable bus2

cable bus1 has my original drive (and still does) and it has the OS/C Drive on it.  Before I tried to add the 2nd drive at cable bus2 I had I lvd compatible passive terminator there.

80 pin cable might be an option, but its an expensive one, I would have to toss my card, cable and converters and buy new.
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Expert Comment

by:WallD
ID: 17922476
OK apologies if I have missed any of these points.

But to go back to the begining you need to connect two drives too a SCSI card, what is the card?

The two disks appear to be st318203lc and a st318404lc, hopefully we shouldnt have to trash the card, ideally we just need a cable and a couple of adapters plus a therminator to make this work, but I think we need to know the SCSI card details before we can spec an affordable soloution.

David
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17922786
scsi host is lsi logic 53c1010-33, I'm guessing you meant to say 'terminator' in your last post 'cause I"ve never heard of a 'therminator'.
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Expert Comment

by:f-king
ID: 17928736
And have you tried the drives the other way round,getting a 80 pin cable won't mean getting a new card since you have that converter on the scsi card from the cards old 68 pin to the new 80 pin
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Expert Comment

by:WallD
ID: 17928876
Yes you should just be able to get a triple port cable either in 68 pin or 80 along with the relevant adapters and a terminator, I cant see why you would need a new scsi card.

By the way dyslexia drools ko.
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17934978
fking-the converter sits on each drive--not at the host scsi card.  My cable is a 68 pin cable (not an 80 pin cable).  Are you saying that I should put the converter on the host card?  If so, I'm not so sure that would work because the converter seems designed for the drives -- it has settings for setting the scsi id and that isn't appropriate (I don't think) for the host card.

WallD - If you got a new 68 pin with 3 drive buses what would you buy and where would you buy it (assuming you were doing it on the cheap)?  BTW, if I bought a new scsi card that could handle 80 pin what scsi card would you buy and where.  I might go the 80 pin route if it gets me a bunch more speed--would it?
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17935000
btw, my existing card has an 80 pin female port, but it faces outside, I used to use it for a scsi zip drive.  It has a 68 pin port for the internal drives.  I guess I can't use the external facing 80 pin for the internal drives--kind of wierd that they would put 68 inside, but 80 outside.
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Expert Comment

by:f-king
ID: 17938605
So if you place the new drive on it's own does your system see it?
Attach the new drive to the same connector where  your old drive was and run it on it's own without the other drive connected.
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Author Comment

by:lmcdonald1
ID: 17945709
fking-yes, the system recognizes the new drive although it can't boot because it has no OS.

I went ahead and ordered a 26in INTERNAL ULTRA320 LVD/SE 68-PIN CABLE 3-DEVICE with TERMINATOR you can see it here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002GWV5E/002-3233995-6452024

However, I consider this a workaround as it doesn't solve the original problem which was how to make it work with a 2 device cable and 80/68 drive adapter-converters w/termination.  If someone could provide a fix rather than a workaround then I would give them credit for the solution.
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Expert Comment

by:WallD
ID: 17945742
You beat me to where you would but a cable but as I am uk based it would have been academic.

As to your original question I dont believe there is a way to make your original setup work, sometimes you have to try various options before you get all the parts to work together.
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