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2 hard drives not showing

first to show my hookup

i have 5 hard drives, 1 scsi (os) and 4 ide 250 gb drives

recently my scsi had a head crash and i had to reinstall windows (2000)
ive gotten all my drivers installed but im having a problem.
the two ide drives that are on the primary channel of the mobo are not showing up in explorer.
my other two that are on the controller card are just fine. but i really need the data thats on the one thats not showing, so reformatting is simply not an option.
besides i cant see how 2 drives can die at once 3 if you count the scsi.

anyway bios recognises that the drives are there and so does the device manager but they just dont show in explorer.
ive looked in the disk manager and the drives are there but they  have red x's on them and i cannot do anything with them. i have some pics.
http://attachments.techguy.org/attachments/91690d1163269721/hard.jpg
http://attachments.techguy.org/attachments/91691d1163269730/hard1.jpg

thx
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warlordcs
Asked:
warlordcs
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1 Solution
 
Irwin SantosComputer Integration SpecialistCommented:
remove all drives except the OS drive...
then add the questionable drives 1 x 1 and see if they appear correctly... report back your results.
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garycaseCommented:
Right-click on the "Missing" disks (one at a time) and select "Reactivate Disk"
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garycaseCommented:
... it should be apparent, but just in case:  you do what I just suggested in Disk Management :-)
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nobusCommented:
you will need to convert the disks to basic disks :
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309044
http://faq.arstechnica.com/link.php?i=1806
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garycaseCommented:
"... you will need to convert the disks to basic disks ..." ==> NO !!  The first step in converting a dynamic disk to a basic disk is to DELETE all of the volumes (i.e. wipe out your data !!)

The 2nd link nobus gave does give a way to simply change the disk type flag ... which may work okay;  but if you can simply Reactivate the disk that's a much safer way to access your data :-)
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davidis99Commented:
Have you checked in Computer Management, Disk Management to see whether the drives are visible to Windows, but simply haven't been assigned a drive letter?  Windows will not automatically assign drive letters above F to local drives, so if the SCSI drive is C, and 2 of the 4 hard drives along with an optical drive are D-F, the last 2 drives won't get automatic drive letters, but they will be sitting is Disk Manager waiting for manual drive letter assignment.
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davidis99Commented:
Missed the part about the two drives having the Xs is Disk Management - have you tried disconnecting the two working IDE drives, and connecting the two you're having trhe problem with?
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
sorry for the delay   i posted this right before i started work
and reactivate disks does not work.
1 sec ill try booting with only the 2
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
okay booting with just those 2 doesent work either
and in disk manager they show as unreadable where the only option is to convert them to basic disk.
im gonna pull them and try them in a diff machine
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
okay they do the same thing in another machine   so the problem is with the drives>
now what?

does anyone have any experience with a program called spinrite, im thinking of giving it a try
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garycaseCommented:
Spinrite is an excellent program -- I've been using it for over 15 years -- but it is not what you need here.   It helps recover sectors that have failed, and if run regularly can help keep them from failing in the first place => but is not a data recovery program with regard to logically corrupted disks (as opposed to physical failures).

Since you can't re-activate them, I would try (CAREFULLY) the type-flag modification outlined here (nobus posted this link earlier):  http://faq.arstechnica.com/link.php?i=1806

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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
im kind of afraid to try tthat but since one of the drives isnt as important ill try it on that one first.
however ill have to wait till morning to do so,    after reading the part about changing  a 42 to a 7 makes me wonder how anyone can figure that out
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garycaseCommented:
"... makes me wonder how anyone can figure that out ..." ==>  It's just the disk type flag;  these are fairly well documented (although difficult to find).
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
my windows cd doesnt have dskprobe
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nobusCommented:
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
that kinda worked exept it only brought back one partition, how do i get the other 2 partitions off the one disk?
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davidis99Commented:
Just did some reading on the subject - have you tried the microsoft troubleshooting for dynamic disks mentioned here?

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/sag_disktrouble.mspx?mfr=true
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
i was looking at this but i am stuck at one part
http://thelazyadmin.net/index.php?/archives/161-Converting-Dynamic-Disks-Back-to-Basic-Disks.html

it says this for multiple partitions
"If the drive has more than one partition, you'll have to change 0x42 to 0x07
multiple times. Changing only one or some of them will result in the "Unreadable"
thing I mentioned previously."

how do i change it multiple times.

ive done it once and ive gotten back one partition, but the disk manager sayd the whole 250 gigs is there but in explorer it says its only 80 gigs   which was the size i originally made the partitions
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
do these need bumps after a certain amount of time?
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nobusCommented:
i never tried it
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garycaseCommented:
"... how do i change it multiple times ..." ==>  You need to change the flag for each partition.   These flags are in the MBR entries for the partitions (an MBR contains four partition descriptor fields => that's why you can have at most four primary partitions).   These entries start at offsets 1BE, 1CE, 1DE, and 1EE.   The Volume Type flag is the 5th byte in each entry [so it's at 1C2 (1BE + 4), 1D2, 1E2, and 1F2].   Since your disk has more than one partition, you need to change this flag for each of the partitions you have on the disk (since you had 3 partitions, you need to change the flags at sector offset 1C2 (you already did that), 1D2, and 1E2.

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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
1c2? 1e2?
are these things im supposed to see in dskprobe?
all the bytes i see in there are 2 digits long and all the addresses on the left are 4 digits. and they only go as far as 01F0

maybe im misreading you but i dont get it

you arent trying to say 01c0 are you?
and if you are then 01d0-01f0 are all zeros all the way across.

i know this data is still accessible somehow, and im gonna keep trying till i get it back
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garycaseCommented:
The numbers on the left are the address of the first byte in the row :-)   All of the 2-digit (hex digits) numbers are the contents of the actual bytes.  Notice there are 16 in each row ... so, for example, the bytes in the row starting with address 01C0 are those bytes at addresses 01C0, 01C1, 01C2, 01C3, 01C4, 01C5, 01C6, 01C7, 01C8, 01C9, 01CA, 01CB, 01CC, 01CD, 01CD, 01CE, and 01CF.

You changed the value at address 01C2 already.   Now you simply need to change the values for the other partitions ==> assuming the 3 partitions were in the first three slots of the MBR table, the other two values you need to change will be at 01D2 and 01E2.

... I incorrectly assumed you knew how to read a hex editor ==> hope that additional detail helps :-)
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
i understand what your saying now but now i dont understand what to change and change it to

heres what mine is:
01b0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 6d c4 4e 18 00 00 00 01
01c0 01 00 42 fe ff ff 3f 00 00 00 34 37 38 1d 00 00
01d0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
01e0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
01f0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa
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garycaseCommented:
Change the 42 to a 07 in the 3rd byte of this line:

01c0 01 00 42 fe ff ff 3f 00 00 00 34 37 38 1d 00 00
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
yes that was changed   i just put it as a 42 to show what was originally there
but it still only brings back 80 gigs of a 250 gig hdd
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garycaseCommented:
Well ... this is the partition table from the MBR on that disk:

01c0 01 00 42 fe ff ff 3f 00 00 00 34 37 38 1d 00 00
01d0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
01e0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
01f0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa

It shows only ONE partition ==> the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th slots are all zeroes.

However, the partition is shown as a 250GB partition (the length field is 1d383734 sectors => converting to decimal and multiplying by 512 bytes/sector shows a 250GB partition).   So there must be an extended partition table that's in play here.   This would mean that the first sector of the partition identified above will itself contain a partition table structure ... and this can be daisy chained for as many partitions as are defined.   This is not difficult ... but does require an understanding of how the pointers are stored.   Note that you need only follow the cylinder/starting sector addresses to find each element in the chain.

The following shows the structure you are dealing with here: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windows2000serv/reskit/prork/prcb_dis_qxql.mspx?mfr=true
==> just follow the pointers to your other partitions, and change their type fields to 07 and you'll have your partitions restored :-)
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
well apperantly i find that i am not technically working with partitions here, but rather volumes.  does this info work with voluumes as well? and the article is kind of confusing me but i think it will start to come to me. but heres my full sector.

http://attachments.techguy.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=92215&stc=1&d=1163874158
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garycaseCommented:
Yes, the volume ID header should be the same.   Your attachment, however, is an invalid link.   You might want to post the graphic at ee-stuff.
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
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garycaseCommented:
Yes, ee-stuff could be better (but it does work).   The 1st sector, however, is simply the boot code followed by the partition table ==> so all the stuff before the partition table entry doesn't mean anything.  So your graphic isn't helpful for this.   The link I gave above shows the structure of the extended partition table --> although Microsoft says it's only for basic disks; there HAS to be a similar structure for dynamic disks as well.   You'll simply have to do a bit of exploring on the disk to see if you can find the extended table that describes the volumes.   My best guess is it's at the same point noted in the Microsoft link.   I would just look for the 0x55AA flags to see if you can isolate the volumes.
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
am i guessing right when i say   that to do this with dskprobe i tell it a different range other than 0 - 1?
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garycaseCommented:
Yes ... you need to find the sectors containing the Extended MBR.   As I noted, Microsoft's documentation I linked to above indicates that for a BASIC disk (yours was NOT a Basic disk) this info is at relative sector 32 or 63.   They are silent about how it's stored on a dynamic disk ... so you'll have to do a bit of "exploring."   But I'd start with the offsets for a basic disk, and look for the flags that identify the end of each table entry (the 0x55AA values).   Without having a similar disk here to look at, it's hard to provide more specific details ... perhaps someone else has a dynamic disk with multiple partitions and can take a look with a hex editor and let you know exactly where the flags are.
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
ok i do see data in sector 63
altho youve thrown me off with 0x55AA.
dskprobe does show address but only in the form of 0xXXX    and they dont go any higher than 0x0ff
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garycaseCommented:
Two consecutive bytes ==>  the first would be 0x055, the 2nd 0x0AA

... Look at the MBR Partition tables you posted above ==> note the last two bytes !!
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
okay i found 2 instances of 55aa
one is highlighted and the other is at the end of the last line
https://filedb.experts-exchange.com/incoming/ee-stuff/1455-hard4.jpg
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warlordcsAuthor Commented:
okay ive gotten my data back. but not entirely using this method.

heres how.
after trying back and forth with che changing the 42's to 07's ive decided to change it back to a 42.  
then i went and fetched the hard drive that had my os and had a head crash. i stuck it in and ran spinrite on it to try and recover it.
it worked so i loaded it up as the main drive and brought back my old windows.
ive checked in the disk manager and looked that the one drive that ive been messing with had been there in its entirety.  
so ive backed it up and made it into a basic disk and repartitioned it.
ive backed up my other 2 and made them basic.  
but the drive with my installations and music was still showing up as failed in disk manager.
so i put back in my new windows hard drive and ran dskprobe to change it from 42 to 07.
then i changed it back to a 42 and rebooted.  
this changed its status from failed to unreadable.  
that done i put back in my old windows drive and the drive was now visible and accessible for me to back up.  
ive now converted it to basic and i am now in the middle of formatting it sor use all again.  
im gonna run spinrite on all of them to make sure they are all good.  
but im just glad to have all my stuff back.


thank you for all your help
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