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Problem loggin into Novell 4.11 server

Posted on 2006-11-29
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Last Modified: 2012-05-05
We are in the process of upgrading our Groupwise to the latest version.  For a short period of time the new Groupwise 6.5 server was on with Netware 6.5 SP6.  Since the new Groupwise 6.5 server was on people are not able to log into the Tree.  Client Can't find the Tree.  The people that logged in prior to the new Groupwise server being turned on are fine. We turned the Groupwise 6.5 with Netware 6.5 SP6 server off.  If people log out then they log out then they can't log back on now even with the new Groupwise 6.5 server off.

We have Novell server version 4.11, Novell Client 4.90 SP2, Workstations are XP SP2, Groupwise is version 5.5
Using IPX for the server protocol
IP/IPX for the Groupwise 6.5 protocol - using IP.  

Any ideas?  I read another post similar to this and he said it was server side but didn't give an answer.  

Tried to reload the client but still can't find the tree.  Must be a server issue.  

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Question by:lbeham
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by:PsiCop
ID: 18039433
<pet peeve>

There is no such thing as a "Novell server". "Novell" is a company. It makes products like "SUSE Linux Enterprise Server", "NetWare", Open Enterprise Server" and, as you know, "GroupWise".

Saying "Novell server" perpetuates the myth that the company only makes one product.

You have NetWare v4.11.

</pet peeve>
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by:ShineOn
ID: 18039476
Novell is a company that, as you're aware, sells multiple products, including more than one Operating System.  Although it's kind of obvious what you mean when you say "Novell 4.11 server" that's really not what's on the box, is it?  It probably says either "NetWare 4.11" or the goofy and ill-concieved "IntranetWare 4.11" right?

I say that because it grates on me when the PHB's and other suits hear people say "Novell" when referring to NetWare and automatically assume that anything "Novell" necessarily means, by definition, NetWare, which makes purchase of other Novell products an uphill climb with the nontechnical folx that get bombarded with FUD from Microsoft and their minions.


Anyway, I'm not sure what the problem is.  Let me try to rephrase your Question to see if I understand right.

You had a NetWare 4.11/GroupWise 5.5 setup, and then you installed a NetWare 6.5 SP6 server with GroupWise 6.5 on it.  After turning on the new server, suddenly people couldn't log in, with the client saying stuff like "tree or server not found."

Then you turned off the new GroupWise server, and people still get the same thing.

I guess my question to you is - did you install the new NetWare 6.5SP6 server into the same tree as the 4.11 server, or is it a different tree?  If it's the same tree, did you 1) prepare your obsolete NetWare 4.11 NDS for integration with eDirectory 8.7.x and 2) make the new NW6.5 server your Master of [Root]?

It strikes me that you seem to be treating NetWare/NDS/eDirectory as though it were a couple of standalone NT servers and not an enterprise infrastructure...
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by:PsiCop
PsiCop earned 250 total points
ID: 18039487
OK, NetWare v4.11 is an obsolete and EOLed version of NetWare, just as GroupWise v5.5 is obsolete. NetWare v4.11 was EOLed about SEVEN YEARS ago. I don't recall when GroupWise v5.5 was EOLed, but it was a number of years ago as well.

You cannot just shove a NetWare v6.5 server into a NetWare v4.11 Tree. They can interoperate, but there are so many years between the two products that the interoperability is limited and has a number of gotchas. I'm not surprised you're having problems, there's no telling what you've screwed up.

Your first order of business is to figure out why people can't login to the NetWare v4.11 server. Did you move the NDS replicas to the NetWare v6.5 server that's now turned off? Is Novell Client 32 trying to use TCP/IP?

Your proper path would have been to have upgraded from NetWare v4.11 to v6.5 first, gotten moved from NDS to eDirectory, and eliminated IPX from your network (NetWare hasn't needed IPX since v5.0 was released....in 1998). Then you would upgrade GroupWise. GroupWise v6.5 requires eDirectory, which NetWare v4.11 doesn't suport.
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Author Comment

by:lbeham
ID: 18040357
Two different trees.  However the workstations that can't log in are trying to attach to the new server using the Netware 6.5 with eDirectory.  I can see the eDirectory on the login screen.  How can we make the workstations point back to the NDS server?  Is this a setting?  
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ShineOn earned 250 total points
ID: 18040484
On the NWGINA (the initial login screen) click the "advanced" button, and on the "NDS" tab, the Tree, Context and Server boxes should each have a drop-down selection arrow that would allow them to select the other tree/context.  It should also have a "browse" button next to each box to allow the client to look for what's available on the network which can then be selected from the results window.
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Author Comment

by:lbeham
ID: 18041162
We had to bring the new server back up and then shut down.  Once we shut the new server down then we were able to log in again on all workstations.  
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Author Comment

by:lbeham
ID: 18041216
Can you tell me what the gotchas are going to be with having 2 trees?  We can upgrade Netware 4.11 to Netware 5 as we have an unlimited server and user license.  We just purchased  Netware 6.5 for the Groupwise server.   The funding is just not here to do everything at once.  Besides when the Netware 4.11 server software works it is difficult to get management to upgrade.  We are upgrading the Groupwise because it lacks functionality and have been having problems with it.
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by:ShineOn
ID: 18041838
Guess what, guys - you have an unlimited number of NetWare 6.5 servers, too - unless you bought Small Business, in which case you can install up to 5 NetWare 6.5 servers in your tree.

Starting with NetWare 6.0, the licensing model changed to per-active-user-object licensing.  You only have to buy one license per active user object in the entire tree, regardless of how many servers they connect to.

So, if you have NetWare 6.5 red-box with, say, 100 user licenses, that gives you license to connect those 100 users to as many NetWare 6.5 servers as you want to install.  You are no longer charged: a) for a "server license" or b) for connecting to more than one server.

If you need more information on how the licensing works, there's a lot of information on the Novell website, plus we've discussed it many times here on E-E, so a quick search of the NetWare TA will reap you tons of info on NW6.x licensing.
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by:PsiCop
ID: 18046180
The "gotchas" of having two Trees include doubling your administration workload. Adding a user, changing user passwords, deleting sa user - all those things now have to be done TWICE.

Since you have purchased NetWare v6.5, you are not limited in the number of servers (unless, as ShineOn has pointed out, you got the SBS package, in which case you're limited to 5 servers). There is no reason you can't upgrade the NetWare v4.11 server to v6.5. There is no licensing cost to do so.

Upgrading the NetWare v4.11 server also allows you to get rid of IPX.
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by:ShineOn
ID: 18047722
... with the added benefit of having a currently-supported version of the OS throughout the enterprise.

If you upgrade your (obsolete) 4.11 servers to (obsolete) NetWare 5.0, you're not gaining any supportability.  Yes, it's possible to join 5.0 (with its last SP) to a NW6.5 tree, but I wouldn't want to have to support that mixed of an environment.  You might be able to get rid of IPX if you bump your 4.11 to 5.0, but you'd still be running on old, obsoleted software.
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Author Comment

by:lbeham
ID: 18053462
The problem is that the 6.5 Netware server version has no user licenses.  It was purchased just to run the new Groupwise.  I think we are stuck with Netware 5.1 until we can budget for Netware 6.5 user licenses.  
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by:ShineOn
ID: 18055049
It's probably too late now, but did you check into the new bundle - Novell Enterprise Workgroup?

It has OES, GroupWise 7 and the full ZEN 7 suite at a package-deal price, which is even cheaper when you do a version upgrade.  I don't know how much you paid for the GroupWise upgrade, but...
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