Solved

Can't copy lenovo t41 2373xgx 30gb partition to 60gb partition and reboot

Posted on 2006-12-01
39
1,465 Views
Last Modified: 2013-11-17

A customer asked a VERY well respected local computer geek to upgrade a Lenovo t41 from a 30gb drive (call it OldHdd) to  a 60gb seagate st96812a drive (call it NewHdd).

the geek said he would use Acronis to copy the partition, and all of the computer settings would be preserved.

The next day the geek said it was impossible to preserve the settings because the T41 cmos settings required the partition to be in exactly the right position and acronis couldn't do that.  The geek recommended XP clean install followed by reinstalling every program.


So, I inherited the problem.  I tried tons of stuff including t41 bios upgrades.  Still no luck.

I hope someone has some suggestions.


----- more details, but they are painful ------------

#1 I used ms disk management which showed the geek had really copied OldHdd to NewHdd.

28g + 2g  drive =into=>  28g + 2g + 30g unused

#2 I tried sticking drive into t31, and it would not boot nor would it give normal messages about no operating systems.

#3 I tried a new xp installation into the 30g unused area.  The install started ok, but after xp loaded most of its intial files, xp tried to reboot and things stopped in their tracks.

#4 I then reformated drive and tried acronis home 9.0 clone. Still no luck.

#5 I tried doing a repair of the 28g partition, again xp crapped out on first reboot

#6 I tried using xp recovery console and the fixboot and fixmbr commands.  (fixmbr kept claiming that it fixed a problem every time I ran it.  I don’t believe it is telling the truth). Still no luck.

#7 I deleted the partitions and tried a new xp installation into the 60g unused area.  The geek was right, this worked fine and a clean xp was up and running. But the customer does not want to reinstall all his software.

#8 I then tried using bootng create image and restore image.  Again the drive would not reboot.
     The exact steps I followed have worked before and are laid out in http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Laptops_Notebooks/Q_21640273.html
    Look at steps 1 through 7.(i) in the 10:47AM PST posting from garycase.

    Before creating the image,  Bootit complained that the OldHdd had an “invalid head and spt values exist in the  BPB. Fix it?”  

   I chose not to fix it  because I did not want to update the customer’s olddrive which was clearly working fine.

#9 I even tried using the bootit options for STDMBR and Clear Sig.

Viewmbr of OldHdd shows
                                     c  h    s        c      h    s               lba     sector
   mbr entry 0  Active       0 1 1 7h  1022 239   63              63  51090417
           IBM-Service-1 1022 0 1 ch   1022 239   63   51090480  635040 (sloppy handwriting, I’m not sure of 635040 number)

Viewmbr of NewHdd shows
                                c  h    s        c      h    s          lba     sector
   mbr entry 0  Active  0 196 1 7h  1022 254 63   12348 51090417

Does anybody have any suggestions?
 


 


0
Comment
Question by:rberke
  • 21
  • 18
39 Comments
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18057978
The Thinkpad's use a very specially arranged partition for the "Access IBM" data (what the BIOS loads when you press the "Access IBM" button).   It's not just a hidden partition --> many low-level disk routines can't see it either.   I don't have a Thinkpad here to look at (I've noted it on others) ... but I have found that this works in the past (it may, however, depend on the exact Thinkpad model ... but I'd give it a try):

(1)  Before you start, install OldHdd and boot.  Right-click on My Computer;  select Properties;  click the Advanced tab; click on Settings in the "Startup and Recovery" area; and click on the Edit button.   This shows you the current BOOT.INI file => note the contents for later use (to post here).

Now ... do all of the rest with Boot-It NG  (it's simply more focused and reliable than other imagers ... and doesn't do anything "extra" that might 2nd guess what you want):

(2)  Image the OS partition from OldHdd and save it (to a USB drive; to a desktop drive; etc. --> anywhere that's convenient).

(3)  Restore the partition to NewHdd.

(4)  Put NewHdd in the Thinkpad --> as you've already noted, it won't boot.

(5)  Boot to Boot-It NG and look at the partition structure for NewHdd.  Be SURE the partition you just restored is marked as Active.   If it wasn't ... try booting after you've made it Active.   This MAY be all that's needed.

(6)  If not, prepare a W98 bootable floppy or CD (depending on what you have available on the T41) which includes the "EditBINI" program (a free download at www.bootitng.com).

(7)  Boot the floppy/CD and run EditBINI.   Look at the current contents and see how it's different from the one you noted earlier (from OldHdd).   Post them both here.
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18058837
Thanks for the suggestions.   steps 2, 3, 4, and 5 were already done (remember, I followed steps 1 through 7i from the 10:47AM PST posting Q21640273)

So, essentially you are suggesting that I document the old boot.ini file and the new boot.ini file.

I'll be glad to do that, but it will have to wait until next Thursday (T41 is out of state right now)

But, I doubt the boot.ini will show much.  For instance, typically the boot.ini does not show anything about the IBM recovery partition.  IBM/Lenovo hide some of that stuff in the bios.

Anyway, here are a few comments while we are waiting for the T41 to come back into town.

a) do you think I should have responded "fix" to OldHdd bootIt message about "invalid head and spt values exist in the BPB? (After a backup of course).  What the heck is a BPB?  By the way, that error seems to be gone on the NewHdd drive, perhaps it was automatically fixed in the Image and the message was asking if I also wanted to fix it in the OldHdd partition.

b) the one and only partition on NewHdd  was already marked as Active

c)  The Access IBM partition was clearly visible to both bootit and acronis. (it is the 2g that I mentioned in item #1). It is not essential as is proven by the fact that item #7 above worked without it.  When I played with Acronis, it was trivial to clone both, so I took 28g+2g ==into==> 28g+2g+ 30g free.  It is slightly harder with BootIt so I did not bother.

d) does BootIt StdMbr do the same thing as XP Recovery Console FixMbr?

e) do you know of any way to restore a partition's contents WITHOUT deleting and recreating the partition?  I could make new install of XP, then load the Old XP partition data into it?

Thanks
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18058984
Yes, I'm basically simply suggesting that you see what the original BOOT.INI was "pointing to" ... and confirming that the new one points to the same place ==> if it doesn't work, then I'd suggest modifying the new one (to just what depends on the old/new values I asked you to post).   I presume you've also confirmed that the restored image partition was Active (per step 5).   Yes, I knew you'd done most of these ... just wanted to be complete in my list.

I'm also well aware that Lenova "hides" the recovery partition from even low-level disk utilities ... that's why I want to see what the original BOOT.INI looks like => it may not "appear" to match the displayed partition structure.

As for your comments above (a -> e):

(a)  No.  That MAY cause the old disk to no longer boot.   I suspect this is related to the way IBM hides the "Access IBM" partition.   The BPB is the BIOS Parameter Block --> Bytes 0B thru 3D (hex) in the boot sector.   You COULD let Boot-It fix this and see what happens; but I would NOT do that without a backup of the boot sector (there are a variety of utilities that let you do this ... I use DiskProbe from the XP Resource Kit)

(b)  Good ... I expected as much; but just wanted to be sure.

(c)  Some Thinkpads have a visible extra partition; some do not ... I don't recall which model #'s I've noted the well hidden extra space.   With the structure you've noted, WHICH partition is Active?  (the 28GB or 2GB)    Did you confirm the same partition was Active on the new hard drive?

(d)  I believe so, but haven't confirmed that [my memory could be faulty :-) ]   If I get a chance tomorrow I'll do both and dump the resulting MBR's (on a spare system)

(e)  You MAY be able to (1) restore the partition from "OldHdd" to "NewHdd" and then do a Repair Install --> IF the XP install CD recognizes the old installation that should work.   But this should NOT be necessary.   It's almost certain that the issue here is some simply flag that's not set right ... a value in BOOT.INI;  the Active Partition flag; etc.             ... What happens, by the way, if you restore ONLY the 28GB partition (NOT the 2GB partition) ==> being certain that it's both marked Active and that the BOOT.INI is pointing to the 1st partition on the drive.
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18060925
Thanks for the thorough response.

For the most part, we will have to wait for the T41 to come back on thursday.

But, you askedd  >>What happens, by the way, if you restore ONLY the 28GB partition (NOT the 2GB partition) ==> being certain that its active <<<<

That is exactly what I did.  One and only one 28gb partition and it is active. It does not boot.

Don't know what the boot.ini has, or the bios parameter block but I will find out and post it on thursday when the problem t41 PC comes back.
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18070925
Garycase: You might want to ignore this until next thursday when I have the problem PC and OldHdd available for testing.

But, I looked at NewHdd with diskprobe and it is interesting

-----------------------------------------------------
Viewmbr of NewHdd shows
                                c  h    s        c      h    s       lba     sector
   mbr entry 0  Active  0 196 1 7h  1022 254 63   12348 51090417   (copy of 28 gigabyte partition)
---------------------------------------------------
Boot.ini on NewHdd 28 gb partition follows.  It looks normal to me
----------------------------------------------------
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

-----------------------------------------------
Diskprobe of sector 0 or NewHdd follows. There seems to be an error message inside of it
----------------------------------------------
0000 33 C0 8E D0 BC 00 7C FB 50 07 50 1F FC BE 1B 7C     3 . . . . . | . P . P . . . . |
0010 BF 1B 06 50 57 B9 E5 01 F3 A4 CB BE BE 07 B1 04     . . . P W . . . . . . . . . . .
0020 38 2C 7C 09 75 15 83 C6 10 E2 F5 CD 18 8B 14 8B     8 , | . u . . . . . . . . . . .
0030 EE 83 C6 10 49 74 16 38 2C 74 F6 BE 10 07 4E AC     . . . . I t . 8 , t . . . . N .
0040 3C 00 74 FA BB 07 00 B4 0E CD 10 EB F2 89 46 25     < . t . . . . . . . . . . . F %
0050 96 8A 46 04 B4 06 3C 0E 74 11 B4 0B 3C 0C 74 05     . . F . . . < . t . . . < . t .
0060 3A C4 75 2B 40 C6 46 25 06 75 24 BB AA 55 50 B4     : . u + @ . F % . u $ . . U P .
0070 41 CD 13 58 72 16 81 FB 55 AA 75 10 F6 C1 01 74     A . . X r . . . U . u . . . . t
0080 0B 8A E0 88 56 24 C7 06 A1 06 EB 1E 88 66 04 BF     . . . . V $ . . . . . . . f . .
0090 0A 00 B8 01 02 8B DC 33 C9 83 FF 05 7F 03 8B 4E     . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . N
00A0 25 03 4E 02 CD 13 72 29 BE 46 07 81 3E FE 7D 55     % . N . . . r ) . F . . > . } U
00B0 AA 74 5A 83 EF 05 7F DA 85 F6 75 83 BE 27 07 EB     . t Z . . . . . . . u . . ' . .
00C0 8A 98 91 52 99 03 46 08 13 56 0A E8 12 00 5A EB     . . . R . . F . . V . . . . Z .
00D0 D5 4F 74 E4 33 C0 CD 13 EB B8 00 00 00 00 00 00     . O t . 3 . . . . . . . . . . .
00E0 56 33 F6 56 56 52 50 06 53 51 BE 10 00 56 8B F4     V 3 . V V R P . S Q . . . V . .
00F0 50 52 B8 00 42 8A 56 24 CD 13 5A 58 8D 64 10 72     P R . . B . V $ . . Z X . d . r
0100 0A 40 75 01 42 80 C7 02 E2 F7 F8 5E C3 EB 74 49     . @ u . B . . . . . . ^ . . t I
0110 6E 76 61 6C 69 64 20 70 61 72 74 69 74 69 6F 6E     n v a l i d p a r t i t i o n
0120 20 74 61 62 6C 65 00 45 72 72 6F 72 20 6C 6F 61      t a b l e . E r r o r l o a
0130 64 69 6E 67 20 6F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73     d i n g o p e r a t i n g s
0140 79 73 74 65 6D 00 4D 69 73 73 69 6E 67 20 6F 70     y s t e m . M i s s i n g o p
0150 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74 65 6D 00 00     e r a t i n g s y s t e m . .
0160 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
0170 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
0180 00 00 00 8B FC 1E 57 8B F5 CB 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . .
0190 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
01A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
01B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D1 41 F5 17 00 00 80 C4     . . . . . . . . . A . . . . . .
01C0 01 00 07 FE FF FE 3C 30 00 00 F1 93 0B 03 00 00     . . . . . . < 0 . . . . . . . .
01D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
01E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
01F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 AA     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . U .
------------------------------
Viewmbr of OldHdd shows
------------------------------
                                     c  h    s        c      h    s               lba     sector
   mbr entry 0  Active       0 1 1 7h  1022 239   63              63  51090417 (original 28 gigabyte partition)
           IBM-Service-1 1022 0 1 ch   1022 239   63   51090480  635040 (original 2 gigabyte recovery partition was NOT copied)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boot.ini and Diskprobe for OldHdd will not be available until thursday.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18097160
Here is the documentation I promised.

Tonight I will try running a windows repair on the partition.  I tried that earlier, but it was on the Acronis clone with two partitions
whereas tonight's copy will be on the Bootit clone with one paritition.

Do you have any other suggestions?


The preceeding post shows the corresponding info for NewHdd as it was after using bootit to copy the partition.

---------------------------------------------------
Boot.ini on OldHdd 28 gb partition follows.  
---------------------------------------------------

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
---------------------------------------------------
Boot.ini on NewHdd 28 gb partition follows.  It looks the same to me
----------------------------------------------------
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

------------------------------
Viewmbr of OldHdd shows
------------------------------
                                     c  h    s        c      h    s               lba     sector
   mbr entry 0  Active       0 1 1 7h  1022 239   63              63  51090417 (original 28 gigabyte partition)
           IBM-Service-1 1022 0 1 ch   1022 239   63   51090480  635040 (original 2 gigabyte recovery partition was NOT copied)

-----------------------------------------------------
Viewmbr of NewHdd shows
                                c  h    s        c      h    s       lba     sector
   mbr entry 0  Active  0 196 1 7h  1022 254 63   12348 51090417   (copy of 28 gigabyte partition)
other entries are all zero
---------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
Diskprobe of sector 0 of Old Hdd follows. There seems to be an error message inside of it
----------------------------------------------
0000      FA 33 C0 8E C0 8E D8 8E D0 BC 00 7C 8B F4 FB FC      . 3 . . . . . . . . . | . . . .
0010      BF 00 06 B9 00 01 F3 A5 B8 DF 06 50 C3 00 0F 00      . . . . . . . . . . . P . . . .
0020      01 0A 45 72 72 6F 72 20 6C 6F 61 64 69 6E 67 20      . . E r r o r l o a d i n g
0030      6F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74 65 6D      o p e r a t i n g s y s t e m
0040      0A 0D 00 0A 49 6E 76 61 6C 69 64 20 70 61 72 74      . . . . I n v a l i d p a r t
0050      69 74 69 6F 6E 20 74 61 62 6C 65 0A 0D 00 50 72      i t i o n t a b l e . . . P r
0060      65 73 73 20 6B 65 79 20 74 6F 20 72 65 62 6F 6F      e s s k e y t o r e b o o
0070      74 20 0A 0D 00 80 7C 04 0C 74 1A 80 7C 04 0E 74      t . . . . | . . t . . | . . t
0080      14 81 7C 0A FA 00 73 0D 8B 4C 02 8B 14 B2 80 B8      . . | . . . s . . L . . . . . .
0090      01 02 CD 13 C3 56 8B C3 87 DE BE 00 06 C7 04 10      . . . . . V . . . . . . . . . .
00A0      00 C7 44 02 01 00 89 44 04 8C 5C 06 8B 47 08 89      . . D . . . . D . . \ . . G . .
00B0      44 08 8B 47 0A 89 44 0A C7 44 0C 00 00 C7 44 0E      D . . G . . D . . D . . . . D .
00C0      00 00 B2 80 BB AA 55 B8 00 42 CD 13 5E C3 B9 04      . . . . . . U . . B . . ^ . . .
00D0      00 BE BE 07 F6 04 80 75 05 83 C6 10 E2 F6 C3 80      . . . . . . . u . . . . . . . .
00E0      3E 1D 06 FE 75 23 B8 01 03 BB B8 07 BA 80 00 C7      > . . . u # . . . . . . . . . .
00F0      47 02 00 00 C7 07 00 00 81 EB B8 01 B9 01 00 C6      G . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
0100      06 1D 06 00 CD 13 E9 99 00 B8 02 02 8B DF B9 02      . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
0110      00 BA 80 00 CD 13 72 49 8B FE 8B F3 B9 00 02 F3      . . . . . . r I . . . . . . . .
0120      A5 BE 00 08 81 BC FE 01 AA 55 75 35 81 BC FE 03      . . . . . . . . . U u 5 . . . .
0130      55 AA 75 2D B9 00 02 BB 00 00 AD 03 D8 E2 FB 83      U . u - . . . . . . . . . . . .
0140      FB 00 75 1D E8 19 02 74 18 A0 1D 06 3C FF 75 05      . . u . . . . t . . . . < . u .
0150      E8 8F 01 EB 04 3C 00 77 0F E9 C4 02 E8 CD 00 73      . . . . . < . w . . . . . . . s
0160      12 E8 6A FF 74 2C EB 10 2C 10 3C 04 73 EE E8 8F      . . j . t , . . , . < . s . . .
0170      00 74 E9 56 E8 A2 01 5E BB 00 7C E8 F7 FE 72 0D      . t . V . . . ^ . . | . . . r .
0180      81 3E FE 7D 55 AA 75 05 B8 00 7C 50 C3 BE 21 06      . > . } U . u . . . | P . . ! .
0190      EB 03 BE 43 06 E8 14 00 BE 5E 06 E8 0E 00 B4 10      . . . C . . . . . ^ . . . . . .
01A0      CD 16 CD 19 BB 07 00 B4 0E CD 10 C3 AC 3C 00 74      . . . . . . . . . . . . . < . t
01B0      05 E8 F0 FF EB F6 C3 00 D8 9E 44 DA 00 00 80 01      . . . . . . . . . . D . . . . .
01C0      01 00 07 EF FF FE 3F 00 00 00 F1 93 0B 03 00 00      . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . .
01D0      C1 FE 0C EF FF FE 30 94 0B 03 A0 B0 09 00 00 00      . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . .
01E0      00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00      . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
01F0      00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 AA      . . . . . . . . . . . . . . U .

-----------------------------------------------
Diskprobe of sector 0 of NewHdd follows. There seems to be an error message inside of it
----------------------------------------------
0000 33 C0 8E D0 BC 00 7C FB 50 07 50 1F FC BE 1B 7C     3 . . . . . | . P . P . . . . |
0010 BF 1B 06 50 57 B9 E5 01 F3 A4 CB BE BE 07 B1 04     . . . P W . . . . . . . . . . .
0020 38 2C 7C 09 75 15 83 C6 10 E2 F5 CD 18 8B 14 8B     8 , | . u . . . . . . . . . . .
0030 EE 83 C6 10 49 74 16 38 2C 74 F6 BE 10 07 4E AC     . . . . I t . 8 , t . . . . N .
0040 3C 00 74 FA BB 07 00 B4 0E CD 10 EB F2 89 46 25     < . t . . . . . . . . . . . F %
0050 96 8A 46 04 B4 06 3C 0E 74 11 B4 0B 3C 0C 74 05     . . F . . . < . t . . . < . t .
0060 3A C4 75 2B 40 C6 46 25 06 75 24 BB AA 55 50 B4     : . u + @ . F % . u $ . . U P .
0070 41 CD 13 58 72 16 81 FB 55 AA 75 10 F6 C1 01 74     A . . X r . . . U . u . . . . t
0080 0B 8A E0 88 56 24 C7 06 A1 06 EB 1E 88 66 04 BF     . . . . V $ . . . . . . . f . .
0090 0A 00 B8 01 02 8B DC 33 C9 83 FF 05 7F 03 8B 4E     . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . N
00A0 25 03 4E 02 CD 13 72 29 BE 46 07 81 3E FE 7D 55     % . N . . . r ) . F . . > . } U
00B0 AA 74 5A 83 EF 05 7F DA 85 F6 75 83 BE 27 07 EB     . t Z . . . . . . . u . . ' . .
00C0 8A 98 91 52 99 03 46 08 13 56 0A E8 12 00 5A EB     . . . R . . F . . V . . . . Z .
00D0 D5 4F 74 E4 33 C0 CD 13 EB B8 00 00 00 00 00 00     . O t . 3 . . . . . . . . . . .
00E0 56 33 F6 56 56 52 50 06 53 51 BE 10 00 56 8B F4     V 3 . V V R P . S Q . . . V . .
00F0 50 52 B8 00 42 8A 56 24 CD 13 5A 58 8D 64 10 72     P R . . B . V $ . . Z X . d . r
0100 0A 40 75 01 42 80 C7 02 E2 F7 F8 5E C3 EB 74 49     . @ u . B . . . . . . ^ . . t I
0110 6E 76 61 6C 69 64 20 70 61 72 74 69 74 69 6F 6E     n v a l i d p a r t i t i o n
0120 20 74 61 62 6C 65 00 45 72 72 6F 72 20 6C 6F 61      t a b l e . E r r o r l o a
0130 64 69 6E 67 20 6F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73     d i n g o p e r a t i n g s
0140 79 73 74 65 6D 00 4D 69 73 73 69 6E 67 20 6F 70     y s t e m . M i s s i n g o p
0150 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74 65 6D 00 00     e r a t i n g s y s t e m . .
0160 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
0170 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
0180 00 00 00 8B FC 1E 57 8B F5 CB 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . .
0190 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
01A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
01B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D1 41 F5 17 00 00 80 C4     . . . . . . . . . A . . . . . .
01C0 01 00 07 FE FF FE 3C 30 00 00 F1 93 0B 03 00 00     . . . . . . < 0 . . . . . . . .
01D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
01E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
01F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 AA     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . U .
------------------------------



0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18098148
windows tried to repair the partition.  It loaded all its files on top of the old partition and did its first reboot.

At the first reboot the sytem hung. No messages, not activity, just a black screen with flashing cursor at the top.

I rebooted and went to the recover console.

Fixboot and fixmbr did not help.

This is very perplexing.  How come windows can to a clean install onto the disk, but it cannot do a repair install to the same disk?

One possible clue.  I downloaded the hard drive firmware update utility (google for migr-62282).

the tool says that NewHdd(the drive that isn't working) already has the latest firmware.

But,  OldHdd does not have the latest firmware, even thoughit is the drive the WORKS!

Maybe I should install the newer firmware onto OldHdd and start over with a brand new clone?  The biggest downside is another 8 hours where the user can't use his computer.  And, there is always the slight chance that OldHdd will become unusable-but I think that is very unlikely)

Hope you have some further suggestions.

The other thing I am considering is taking the computer to an IBM service center.  I'm not too proud to admit defeat.
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18098151
I'm not sure why the newhdd has such a high starting block address ... I'd have expected it to be the same (the difference in geometry is normal).

I'd try "nuking" the new disk (with dBan), and then restoring the 28GB partition to it and using Boot-It to create a standard MBR.   Then see if it will boot.
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18098191
I would NOT change the firmware on the old hard drive => as you've correctly noted, it may stop working ... AND it should not have any bearing on this issue.

... We just crossed posts a minute ago => try nuking the new hard drive (dBan is at http://dban.sourceforge.net/) and restoring the Boot-It image of the old hard drive's 28GB partition to the new "nuked" drive as the FIRST thing you do with it.   Then look at Boot-It's partition screen and see if the block addresses match the old drive.   I'm perplexed as to why that is so much different in the screens you posted earlier.
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18098270
Yeah, that is the only difference, and I have no idea what it means.  But I will do as you say.  Do you think it is ok t nuke the drive on a different computer.  My user is starting to get annoyed with me attempts to "help" him.
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18098296
Sure ... you can nuke it on a different PC; restore the partition to it; and then "look" at the partition structure with Boot-It on any PC.   You only need the laptop to actually install the new drive and boot from it.   If the restored partition has the same starting block #, etc. it will almost certainly work fine.   I'm still perplexed as to why the restored partition has such a high initial block #
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18118053
Nuked the NewHdd 60g and restored it from original image of OldHdd.

It still went to  
                                 c  h    s        c      h    s       lba     sector
   mbr entry 0  Active  0 196 1 7h  1022 254 63   12348 51090417

I think we are at the end of the line here. Looks like it is impossible to do.
0
 
LVL 70

Accepted Solution

by:
garycase earned 500 total points
ID: 18118347
"... Looks like it is impossible to do. " ==> Nah !!  But I agree it's not apparent just what's causing the issue.   How exactly did you create the image that you're restoring??

0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18122739
I used bootit to image the original disk OldHdd 30gig to an NTFS paritition on TempHdd (a 60 gig desktop drive)
I then nuked NewHdd 60gig  
used bootit to restore image from TempHdd to NewHdd  

All operations were done from the bootit CD (I.E. without windows being active)

Copies were done on dimension 2400 wih a second controler which has two channels.

TempHdd was on one channel and NewHdd was on a different channel.  (I.E. two different ribbon cables).

None of the disks had any jumpers  so they would be considered primary disks.  I seriously doubt if jumper settings matter, but I just want to be complete.

0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18123006
Just for grins (if you have another drive available) ... restore the image to ANOTHER hard drive as the only partition on the drive and see what the starting logical block address is then.
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18140144
The only available 2.5 inch is 20gig which is too small.  I have a 60 gig 3.5, but it is not worth the effort for a drive that I won't be able to use.

I will probably take the system to a local IBM/Lenovo business partner who thinks they can do it.  If they succeed, I will post whatever info I get.

Thanks anyhow for the old college try.  
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18140436
Yes, you'd need at least 30GB => Boot-It can't resize during the restore.   You could resize the partition; then image it; and it would fit ... but I'd be reluctant to do anything on the original disk until this is resolved.   I'm still perplexed at the starting block number of the restored partition => I've restored dozens of drives with Boot-It (probably a couple hundred) and have never seen that.   I've got a few friends with Thinkpads ... perhaps I'll have to talk one of them into buying a larger hard drive so I can try this myself :-)

... there's not, by any chance, any encryption or password features enabled on this laptop are there ??

0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18140443
... and DO post back with the results after you get it back !!  (if it's after this question is locked, just e-mail me the results => address in profile)
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18142874
nope, no encryption or passwords.  

<I'm still perplexed at the starting block number ..>

Do you mean the h number is never higher than 1?
                                                    c    h    s        c      h    s               lba     sector
 old drive had   mbr entry 0  Activ    0    1    1 7h  1022 239   63              63  51090417 (original 28 gigabyte partition)
 new drive had                                   196


That leads me to wonder if the 60gig disk is really the source of the problem (which is probably what you were wondering when you asked me to try another disk.)

I also wonder what would happen if I tried to image a dell laptop.  If that also moves from head 1 to head head 196, and unbootable, that will it more likely that the problem is the new disk as opposed to the old thinkpad's cmos.

I  may just stop at the local big box store and pick up a new 60 gig drive.  Depends on my mood.

I will make sure it is not a seagate st96812a just in case it is a model specific problem.



0
Highfive Gives IT Their Time Back

Highfive is so simple that setting up every meeting room takes just minutes and every employee will be able to start or join a call from any room with ease. Never be called into a meeting just to get it started again. This is how video conferencing should work!

 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18144506
Yes, I was definitely wondering whether the drive has some issue with cylinder 0, sector 0 ==> I would expect the c/h/s parameters for the 1st partition to start at 0/1/1 and the initial block address (lba) to be 63.   I've just booted Boot-It on 3 different PC's to confirm that => and they ALL have the same settings.

Note:  Are you SURE you didn't install Boot-It on the new hard drive ... and that it's not set to boot to a 2nd partition ??   IF you forgot to press CANCEL at the first prompt; and IF it is set to boot to a 2nd partition (even if you've since deleted that partition), then that would explain the strange MBR parameters.   With Boot-It installed on the hard drive, the first entry in the MBR "points" to may not be the physically first partition on the hard drive.   This seems unlikely in your case ... but just wanted to be sure you are SURE that Boot-It was never installed on the drive.

... but mainly it would be a good test to restore the partition to a DIFFERENT drive and see if you get a different result :-)


0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18144600
Bootit on hard drive?  Hmmmm

Certainly it does not explain why things failed with acronis (remember that is what I started with a month ago)

But, I will admit that in the first attempt to use bootit I did forget to hit cancel.  I immediatly realized my mistake when Bootit gave its welcome message. I immediatly powered off.  I guarantee that I did not see any messages asking for registration number etc.

I am sure nuking the NewHDD would wipe out any effects of that momentary welcome screen

But, both OldHDD and NewHDD were in the second controller card at that time and a 3rd drive was in the primary controller.  
But, OldHdd and NewHdd were jumperless, so I suppose there is a very very slight chance that bootit though OldHDD was as good a place as any for its actions, so  something happened to OldHdd while bootit was sending the welcome screen.  BUT, OldHdd still functions totally normally, it does not give the standard bootit on hard disk messages.  

But wouldn't that show up on the MBR of OldHdd?  If you look above, you will see that it appears perfectly normal.  

I bought a 60gig drive tonight, so tomorrow may have some interesting results

0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18144611
"that bootit THOUGHT OldHdd was as good a place..."

That comment is unclear, even after the spelling error is fixed.

I mean that bootit normally expects to see only one master on the Dell Dimension that I was using.  In my case there were THREE masters.  Two of the masters even had an active primary drive.  (The Dell's normal C: drive and the Thinkpad OldHdd drive.)  So, Bootit could have  been confused.   But I can't believe that Bootit would start clobbering a drive without some warning message.
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18144624
The technician at the big box store said it might be that the OldHdd had "Norton Goback" on it.  But he was very uncertain of how to detect it.
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18145025
Norton GoBack would cause the partition structure to look different => and, additionally, you'd see a "GoBack" screen for a few seconds when you booted.  So I don't think that's the issue (I'm fairly familiar with GoBack).

It will be very interesting to see the partition structure of the new 60GB drive after you do NOTHING to the drive except restore the image of the 28GB partition to it :-)   Just (a) restore the partition; and (b) view the MBR and post it here.

0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18148668
CentonHdd 60gig now has mbr
                                c  h    s        c      h    s       lba     sector
   mbr entry 0  Active  0 196 1 7h  1022 254 63   12348 51090417

EXACTLY like the seagate.

So, we have almost entirely eliminated the target disk as the source of the problem.  
That leaves several other points of failure
   Lenovo t41 and its firmware might be weird and forced its weirdness onto OldHdd
   Bootit might be weird (my version is a year old)
   OldHdd and its firmware might be weird.  Remember, bootit reported “invalid head and spt values exist in the  BPB. Fix it?”  
        I am beginning to think that bootit was offering to fix ON THE IMAGE that was being created.  
        I think I will drop the bootit folks a email asking for clarification.
   something else????


I got the brilliant idea of using bootit Slide to move the partititon down, but it already says there are zero bytes before the partition.

I then tried bootit's resize function which always checks for errors.  It did not find any errors, so I aborted the resize.



0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18148777
I don't think it's the version of Boot-It ... but you can download the demo of the current version, which will do everything you're doing here with no problem (the differences with the paid version only impact what you can do after it's installed ... and which images it will allow a restore from).

It could be something strange in the way the T41 controls the disk --> as I noted before, the "Access IBM" button apparently does some strange stuff (and I don't have a Thinkpad to "play" with, which would probably be very useful here).

I think there's an EXCELLENT chance that if you made another image, and clicked on the "Fix It" option when presented, that all would be just fine.   HOWEVER,  I'm always reluctant to modify a functioning disk unless you have excellent backups.   The worst case here ... since you know that a new install works just fine on the new, larger disk, is that you have to do a new install => so as long as you have a good backup of the data it wouldn't be a total catastrophe if "Fix It" suddenly rendered the old hard disk not bootable.  I do NOT think that's likely ... but I tend to be VERY cautious about such things.

If I had the system here, what I would do next is:  (a) Image the OldHDD with the newest version of Boot-It (just to be sure it isn't something from the old version);  (b)  Copy all of the user's data to another hard drive somewhere;  (c)  Repeat the image, but this time click on the "Fix It" option;  and then (d) restore the image from step (c) to the new hard drive and see if all is well.   I suspect it would be :-)
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18148858
yeah, that's what I might end up doing.  But, first I'll drop a note to the bootit folks and  see what they say about the message.
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18149445
Good plan ... they're also very responsive to e-mails (at least in my experience)
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18163019
the Bootit NG people came through with flying colors.

The problem was as we suspected.  the error message “invalid head and spt values exist in the  BPB. Fix it?”.

The bootit folks told me to respond YES on the NewHDD.  Of course, I had NEVER seen the message wiht NewHdd, but they anticipated that.

Here were their instructions:

BPB RECOVERY PROCEDURE
     Install the new HDD in a system as HD0, boot BING, go to partition work, click view mbr, ensure it's active, click std mbr,
     click apply, view properties of that partition, if you get a warning, say yes to fix bpb.


At the View Properties step, I saw the error message repeated on NewHdd.  I was no longer afraid to say Yes because the OldHdd was a 100% guaranteed backup.

For grins, I did another View Properties and this time there was no message.

I installed NewHdd in the thinkpad and booted to safe mode.  Safe mode told me that new hardware was found (probably because the 60gig drive was not the same as the orginal 30gig)

It is up and running.

To future folks who get   “invalid head and spt values exist in the  BPB. Fix it?”, I would still recommend replying no.  The error will be propogated to you NewHdd.  Then follow the BPB RECOVERY PROCEDURE.

Of course, if you are in a rush and very gutsy, you could let bootit fix it directly on OldHdd. I personally would never have the nerve to alter the OldHdd until I was sure the NewHdd was working, but it would have saved 4 hours of work if I had done that.

Thanks for your help.




0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18163519
You're welcome ... glad Terabyte came through (again) => I've been consistently impressed not only with the capabilities and reliability of Boot-It; but also with their quick and thorough replies to e-mail (they'll even call you if it's a particularly tricky issue and you've given them a phone #).
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18164857
to future researchers who encounter “invalid head and spt values exist in the  BPB. Fix it?”  

As of dec 2006, the error message is not well documented in Terabytes data base. Perhaps the following, (which has NOT been reviewed by terabyte) will be useful.

The lines that I marked with ??? might be overly conservative, but I personally hate to alter the OldHdd until after the NewHdd has been proven to work.

------ draft of knowledge base article ------
ERROR MESSAGE:
    “invalid head and spt values exist in the  BPB. Fix it?”  
IMPACT:
     This error message may accompany an unbootable disk.

WHEN GENERATED:
     This message may be detected during imaging or copying of a partition, but the problem with the Bios Partition Block probably occurred long before the imaging attempt.  Often the problem does not affect the old system and only causes problems on the new system.
     
ACTIONS:
     If you respond YES the problem will be fixed on both the original disk and the copy.
 
 ??? Caution, responding YES might cause data loss on the old disk.
 ??? It is recommended that you respond NO, and allow the error to be resolved only on the new disk as follows:

 
     Respond NO. The old disk will not be fixed, and the error will propagate from the old disk to the image.  
     When the image is restored, the error will propagate onto the new disk causing the new disk to be temporarily unbootable.

     The new disk and its data will be accessible as a slave, but it will remain unbootable even after Windows reinstallation,
     and even after using the Windows XP fixboot and fixmbr commands.  
     
     To fix the new disk, use the following procedure.
     
     BPB RECOVERY PROCEDURE
     Install the new HDD in a system as HD0.  (It does not need to be the NewHdd's target computer).
     Boot BING (BootIt NG), go to partition work, click view mbr, ensure it's active, click std mbr,
     click apply, view properties of that partition, if you get a warning, say yes to fix bpb.

     The new disk should now be bootable.


0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18165492
... if you have access to it (the system and OldHDD), and a few minutes to give it a try ==> since you now have the NewHDD fully functional; there is no downside to "experimenting" with OldHDD.   It would be VERY informative to know for sure if answering "Yes" to the "Fix It?" query has any impact on OldHDD.    All you'd have to do is put OldHDD back in the laptop; boot to Boot-It; and go as far as creating the image and answering that question.   ... just a thought :-)

0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18165970
Based upon my experiences of the last few weeks:

I believe that view mbr > view properties will also display the message.
I believe the image to NTFS disk will also display the message.
And, I believe the copy disk to disk will NOT display the message.

I will do all 3 operations WITHOUT responding Yes  just to verify my predictions.

But, none of this will happen until the NewHdd has been working for at least a week. (Since I am ultra cautious I don't see any need to hurry to zap OldHdd.)

0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18166022
... I also tend to be "ultra cautious" ==> but if you do get a chance to  try OldHDD with a "Yes" response, please post the results :-)   [if this question is locked when you do so, just e-mail me the result ... address in profile.]   Thanks :-)
0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18175492
My previous instructions were wrong where they said the fix "does not need to be on the NewHdd's target computer".  In my latest test, it HAD to be done on he target comuter.


Also Bootit DOES NOT check the oldHdd bpb on direct copies.  It only checks during imaging and view properties.

I copied OldHdd to NewHdd using a Dell desktop without any error message.

I then used View Properties of OldHdd and DID get the error message.

View properities on NewHdd in the Dell DID NOT get the bpb fix it message.

Nonetheless, NewHdd did not boot in the thinkpad.
View properties on NewHdd in the thinkpad  DID get the  bpb fix it message. Responding Yes, fixed the error and made NewHdd bootable.

In addition, I also clicked on Std Mbr, but I don't think that was required.

The final test where I actually fix OldHdd might not occur for several weeks.  I want to keep OldHdd broken in case terabyte wants me to any further testings

0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18181451
I will NEVER run the test you requested. I will never try to fix the OldHdd because I want to keep it as a test drive for future releases of cloning software.

Read on for more interesting results, but only if you are a masochist.  I really don't need any further help, I am just documenting some other facts.


Acronis puts the partition at  0 1 1 instead of the 0 196 1 starting location that bootit insists upon.  Plus Acronis does resizing and cloning in one step, whereas Bootit requires two steps.

But, as I said earlier, Acronis NewHdd does not boot on thinkpad and never gives any warning messages.  

Immediately after the Acronis copy, I ran Bootit View Properties. On the Dell Bootit DID NOT detect BPB problems with either of the new partitions.

I then moved NewHdd to the thinkpad and tried to boot to windows. My theory is that this is when the bad BPB was created.  The boot failed so I did a Bootit View Properties. Bootit DID detect BPB problems.  I think that if I immediately put NewHdd back into the Dell, the View Properties would start showing a bad BPB. But it is too late to try that test now, and too much work to recreate this situtation.

On the thinkpad, I responded Yes to the Bootit Fix It request for the Windows Partition and Acronis NewHdd  booted Windows properly.  It was not necessary to click on Std Mbr.

But, the Ibm recovery partition still does not work.  

I Selected the Ibm service partition and Bootit View properties ALSO gave “invalid head and spt values exist in the  BPB. Fix it?”  message.  In other words, each partititon has its own BPB.  

But responding Yes did not fix the recovery partition.  I tried a bunch of other junk, including STD Mbr and deleting recovery partition and recopying that partition using Bootit instead of Acronis. That caused an additional error message "Correct BPB HDNum (Y/N)" but I could never get the recovery partition to work.  

So, I believe I am at the end of the line on this nightmare.  In particular, I will NEVER run the test you requested where I reply Yes and fix OldHdd.  I want to keep OldHdd in its broken mode forever.  This will allow me to test future versions of bootit and acronis to see if they have resolved this sorry mess.

But, I have a strong hunch that if I were to do the test you requested, it would fail.  It is my belief that the BPB error did not propagate from OldHdd to NewHdd when it is created on the Dell.  Instead, I believe NewHdd BPB is momentarily clean, and probably empty.  When the NewHdd is installed into the thinkpad, I think the BPB is being created by the thinkpad CMOS, but that there is a bug in the thinkpad firmware which is creating a damaged BPB.

This theory is consistent with the known facts, but I could do futher testing.  But,  I am sick to death of this, so I am quitting while I am ahead.
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18181574
"... I am sick to death of this, so I am quitting while I am ahead. " ==> Good plan.  Have a Merry Christmas and a great New Year !!

... remember, however:  You don't need the IBM recovery partition => in fact, it's much less useful than a good image of the current system.   Restoring to IBM's recovery puts the system back in "from the factory" state => so you have to reload all programs; do all Windows updates; etc.   Restoring to a saved image restores to the state when the image was taken => so if you create and save an image with all updates; all programs loaded; etc. then you can always recover to that much-more-useful state.   It's also a good idea to keep that image somewhere besides the laptop (so if the hard disk fails you can simply restore it to a new drive).



0
 
LVL 5

Author Comment

by:rberke
ID: 18181856
I agree completely, the recovery partition is a waste.  I only played with it because the customer wanted me to.

In fact I firmly believe that the recovery parititon has exactly one useful function: Running it before selling an old computer.  

Then, you can then honestly tell the buyer that the computer works just as well as it did when you bought it.

And, in reality, I would never use that method for restoring, because it doesn't wipe the disk very thoroughly.  

Of course, its real purpose is simply to get IBM/Lenovo help desk technicians off the hook.  If a customer has problems they tell the customer to restore their disk to factory settings.  If the customer is willing to start over on their computer, it usually solves the problem.  If the customer is not willing, the help desk person does not have to go any further because the customer is not willing to cooperate!


"   you can simply restore it to a new drive " .

That is pretty hillarious considering it took me 4 weeks to simply restore a 30gig to new 60gig drive.
But, now that I know about BPB fixing, it might go a tad faster next time.

Happy holidays and so long for now.



0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 18181894
... the extra time to restore the OS partition was, IMHO, somehow related to the IBM BIOS and how it treats the recovery partition ==> but as you've noted; now that you know to "just say yes" to Boot-It's "Fix It ?" query, you could indeed restore an image to a new hard drive in a matter of minutes :-)

Have a great holiday season ...
0

Featured Post

What Should I Do With This Threat Intelligence?

Are you wondering if you actually need threat intelligence? The answer is yes. We explain the basics for creating useful threat intelligence.

Join & Write a Comment

Suggested Solutions

I am not new to IT, I have been working in the field since 1985.  But recently I came up against something that stumped even me (it doesn't happen as often as I would like).  I was running a screencasting session from the laptop to my TV via ChromeC…
Computer running slow? Taking forever to open a folder, documents, or any programs that you didn't have an issue with before? Here are a few steps to help speed it up. The programs mentioned below ALL have free versions, you can buy them if you w…
This video gives you a great overview about bandwidth monitoring with SNMP and WMI with our network monitoring solution PRTG Network Monitor (https://www.paessler.com/prtg). If you're looking for how to monitor bandwidth using netflow or packet s…
When you create an app prototype with Adobe XD, you can insert system screens -- sharing or Control Center, for example -- with just a few clicks. This video shows you how. You can take the full course on Experts Exchange at http://bit.ly/XDcourse.

758 members asked questions and received personalized solutions in the past 7 days.

Join the community of 500,000 technology professionals and ask your questions.

Join & Ask a Question

Need Help in Real-Time?

Connect with top rated Experts

22 Experts available now in Live!

Get 1:1 Help Now