ekeller99
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Linksys 4-port Router works, but 8-port Router keeps dropping Internet connection
I'm having issues with the Linksys 8-port router/switch (model BEFSR81). My customer is in a new office/new building with DSL with a working modem and signal. They've got five computers needing to share an Internet connection (all 5 are Windows XP; 2 pro and 3 Home), which works fine if they're using an existing Linksys 4-port router (BEFSR41) they were using in their previous location with the same ISP.
We purchased the new Linksys 8-port router and installed it, configuring a static IP and DNS's according to the ISP. The Internet connection has repeatedly gone down on a daily basis with this unit. It keeps happening everyday at the SAME TIME FRAME; 1:00pm - 3:00pm. Client was able to successfully restore the Internet signal by powering off and reconnecting the router, but it always goes off later in the day or the next day. Using the legacy 4-port router worked (and continues to work fine) - always on, no service interruptions. So we sent this unit back to online vendor who quickly sent a new replacement.
Same issue.
I'm scratching my head over this one. The only explanation I can come up with is that the key difference between the stability of the Internet connection of the 4-port and the 8-port routers is related to power supply. I looked up the technical and IEEE specs for both of these units on the Linksys website. Here what each product data sheet reports;
BEFSR41
Power Input - External 9V AC, 1000mA
BEFSR81
Power Input - External 5V DC, 3A
Could it be failing because of inadequate power supply cycling off due to increased demand on the circuit later in the day? I need to make recommendations that will get them online reliability and be cost-effective. Can we use a separate power supply? If so, how?
Thanks.
We purchased the new Linksys 8-port router and installed it, configuring a static IP and DNS's according to the ISP. The Internet connection has repeatedly gone down on a daily basis with this unit. It keeps happening everyday at the SAME TIME FRAME; 1:00pm - 3:00pm. Client was able to successfully restore the Internet signal by powering off and reconnecting the router, but it always goes off later in the day or the next day. Using the legacy 4-port router worked (and continues to work fine) - always on, no service interruptions. So we sent this unit back to online vendor who quickly sent a new replacement.
Same issue.
I'm scratching my head over this one. The only explanation I can come up with is that the key difference between the stability of the Internet connection of the 4-port and the 8-port routers is related to power supply. I looked up the technical and IEEE specs for both of these units on the Linksys website. Here what each product data sheet reports;
BEFSR41
Power Input - External 9V AC, 1000mA
BEFSR81
Power Input - External 5V DC, 3A
Could it be failing because of inadequate power supply cycling off due to increased demand on the circuit later in the day? I need to make recommendations that will get them online reliability and be cost-effective. Can we use a separate power supply? If so, how?
Thanks.
3A is higher than I would expect for that unit but still pretty small. I agree not enough to worry about. Should be on a UPS anyway.
The timing issue is very interesting though.
I would recommend you first upgrade or to the newest firmware, or re-install the latest if you already have it.
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Content_C1&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1115416835852&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
No chance someone is " mess'n " with the power or breakers? There was a post here last year where the Internet would go down every night between 9 and 12 pm. Fellow final, after a week of troubleshooting, babysat the site to discover, the cleaning staff unplugged the router to hook up their vacuum each night :-)
The timing issue is very interesting though.
I would recommend you first upgrade or to the newest firmware, or re-install the latest if you already have it.
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Content_C1&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1115416835852&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
No chance someone is " mess'n " with the power or breakers? There was a post here last year where the Internet would go down every night between 9 and 12 pm. Fellow final, after a week of troubleshooting, babysat the site to discover, the cleaning staff unplugged the router to hook up their vacuum each night :-)
ASKER
Both good points. I'll try checking on the keep alive settings for the 4-port and then hook up the 8-port, log on and see what it's set at. If that isn't the issue, then I will try upgrading the firmware.
As for the timing of the connectivity the "mess'n with the power" issue is something I keep coming back to. The reason I rule it out is because the 4-port router works continuously with no outages while plugged into the same circuit box. If it were a power outage or refresh then I believe both the 4-port and the 8-port would be experiencing the same intermittent Internet issue. D'ya think?
As for the timing of the connectivity the "mess'n with the power" issue is something I keep coming back to. The reason I rule it out is because the 4-port router works continuously with no outages while plugged into the same circuit box. If it were a power outage or refresh then I believe both the 4-port and the 8-port would be experiencing the same intermittent Internet issue. D'ya think?
Is the MTU set the same on both routers?
I doubt it is a power thing to be frank.
I doubt it is a power thing to be frank.
>>I believe both the 4-port and the 8-port would be experiencing the same intermittent Internet issue<<
My thoughts exactly... :)
And Keith makes a good point.. MTU settings can and do make a difference, as a DSL circuit pads the packets with additional information.. these routers come preconfigured with an MTU of 1500, and DSL adds 8 bits to the packet.. make sure that your MTU is set for a maximum of 1492.. I might even set it a little lower for testing..
FE
My thoughts exactly... :)
And Keith makes a good point.. MTU settings can and do make a difference, as a DSL circuit pads the packets with additional information.. these routers come preconfigured with an MTU of 1500, and DSL adds 8 bits to the packet.. make sure that your MTU is set for a maximum of 1492.. I might even set it a little lower for testing..
FE
Not that it makes a difference in the connection issue but is it a PPPoE connection? Most static IP's over DSL here are not, or at least are not set up as typical PPPoE so the "keep alive option" is not available in the connection options.
1:00 - 3:00 pm, no chance you have a lot of lunch time users downloading music or equivalent, causing excessive traffic and in combination with a flaky router it shuts down. Do you have a way of monitoring activity?
Do you have multiple public IP's ? Could you set up both routers side by side. Connect the 4 port to your LAN and the 8 port to a single PC and see if it still goes down?
Just fishing :-⌡
1:00 - 3:00 pm, no chance you have a lot of lunch time users downloading music or equivalent, causing excessive traffic and in combination with a flaky router it shuts down. Do you have a way of monitoring activity?
Do you have multiple public IP's ? Could you set up both routers side by side. Connect the 4 port to your LAN and the 8 port to a single PC and see if it still goes down?
Just fishing :-⌡
ASKER
Thanks for the ideas. I will try going back into the office on Monday (or Tuesday, if they're off for the Monday holiday) and do the following;
1) logon to 4-port router via web admin and check the following settings;
- keep alive settings
- MTU settings to see what the maximum is
- disconnect 4-port router (no, client has only 1 public IP so can't have both units plugged in simultaneously)
2) plug in 8-port router and logon to web admin control panel. Check above settings and modify, if necessary
3) follow up with client to confirm outage times and duration of each cycle, if multiples, since the new router was installed Wed.
4) if the report comes back that the outage times are the same then I will inquire about building occupant capacity and load on the DSL line
If it turns out that the settings for the 8-port are correct and there is not enough 'congestion' on the DSL to explain the outage then I will probably recommend getting a D-Link or Belkin router.
Will let you know what happens.
Thanks!
1) logon to 4-port router via web admin and check the following settings;
- keep alive settings
- MTU settings to see what the maximum is
- disconnect 4-port router (no, client has only 1 public IP so can't have both units plugged in simultaneously)
2) plug in 8-port router and logon to web admin control panel. Check above settings and modify, if necessary
3) follow up with client to confirm outage times and duration of each cycle, if multiples, since the new router was installed Wed.
4) if the report comes back that the outage times are the same then I will inquire about building occupant capacity and load on the DSL line
If it turns out that the settings for the 8-port are correct and there is not enough 'congestion' on the DSL to explain the outage then I will probably recommend getting a D-Link or Belkin router.
Will let you know what happens.
Thanks!
Good luck !
If you want to try to narrow down the exact time it disconnects (assuming that might help) you could monitor it with a little utility called NetGong (formerly IPMonitor). Free for 30 days:
http://netgong.tsarfin.com/
If you want to try to narrow down the exact time it disconnects (assuming that might help) you could monitor it with a little utility called NetGong (formerly IPMonitor). Free for 30 days:
http://netgong.tsarfin.com/
ASKER
Reporting back...
I finally got into client's office yesterday and did the following to the 8-port router;
- changed MTU setting from 1400 to 1495
- upgraded the firmware from version 2.51.0 to 2.51.1
- downloaded and installed NetGong on a client system to monitor router availability
Their ISP requires a Static IP address for this connection so checking "keep-alive' settings are a moot point.
I got a call from client first thing this morning stating that NetGong reports the router to be 'alive', but the Internet connection is down (again).
Sigh.
Any more suggestions?
I finally got into client's office yesterday and did the following to the 8-port router;
- changed MTU setting from 1400 to 1495
- upgraded the firmware from version 2.51.0 to 2.51.1
- downloaded and installed NetGong on a client system to monitor router availability
Their ISP requires a Static IP address for this connection so checking "keep-alive' settings are a moot point.
I got a call from client first thing this morning stating that NetGong reports the router to be 'alive', but the Internet connection is down (again).
Sigh.
Any more suggestions?
ASKER
O.K. - so I'm upping the ante on this one as I keep getting called to fix the problem. And there is still a problem.
Can anyone offers suggestions about what else I should be checking on the router settings?
Can anyone offers suggestions about what else I should be checking on the router settings?
Forget the points as you have piqued my interest.
What if you put the four port device in but daisy chain it with another straight switch? That would give them enough ports to play with I would expect.
You did not confirm (I think) that the connection was PPOE or not? If its PPOE you would want to be reducing the MTU size slightly, not moving it up from 1400 to 1492.
If you put the 8-port into your own office, do you get the same symptoms as the client?
When the link goes, can they still ping www.yahoo.com, an external ip address or similar? ie is it the browser that goes or is it definitely the whole connection?
What is the status of the led's when it goes?
When kaput, can the client use the browser onto the router setup screen?
What if you put the four port device in but daisy chain it with another straight switch? That would give them enough ports to play with I would expect.
You did not confirm (I think) that the connection was PPOE or not? If its PPOE you would want to be reducing the MTU size slightly, not moving it up from 1400 to 1492.
If you put the 8-port into your own office, do you get the same symptoms as the client?
When the link goes, can they still ping www.yahoo.com, an external ip address or similar? ie is it the browser that goes or is it definitely the whole connection?
What is the status of the led's when it goes?
When kaput, can the client use the browser onto the router setup screen?
Good points, Keith.. I was going to go down the same road...
ASKER
Thanks, Keith. These are good things to check. I will run through your list and see what happens. I'm a bit suspicious about the "Internet outage" - maybe it is a localhost phenom. only.
Will check back in.
Thanks.
Will check back in.
Thanks.
ASKER
I forgot to add (confirm) about the PPoE - I don't believe it is. They have a static IP assigned to their router, which precludes it from being PPoE. At least, the option to modify PPoE settings are not available on this Router if 'Static IP' is selected in the Basic Settings menu. I read that to mean that it does not have PPoE.
ASKER
I checked in with client this morning by sending an e-mail with a series of tests (and Qs to answer) to run to narrow it down. Here they are;
1) When the Internet 'goes down' they can't access any sites (trying several different ones) using IE. "Page cannot be displayed" blah, blah
2) Has not looked at the router to see the status of the LEDS when the Internet is down (sigh) - to much effort, I guess ;-)
3) Here's the most interesting;
"When the internet is down, I can log onto the router admin screen. What
I have been doing now is not changing any settings, I just press the 'save
settings' button and wait the 5 seconds for the screen to come back up and I
re-log on to the internet and it works."
Go figure.
This is not a major outage, but is obviously a hassle to have to keep logging into the router admin to do this just to get Internet again. I can't put my finger on it, but from #3 it sure looks like it's a setting on the router that's causing the problem. What other settings should we check?
Thanks for hanging in there....
1) When the Internet 'goes down' they can't access any sites (trying several different ones) using IE. "Page cannot be displayed" blah, blah
2) Has not looked at the router to see the status of the LEDS when the Internet is down (sigh) - to much effort, I guess ;-)
3) Here's the most interesting;
"When the internet is down, I can log onto the router admin screen. What
I have been doing now is not changing any settings, I just press the 'save
settings' button and wait the 5 seconds for the screen to come back up and I
re-log on to the internet and it works."
Go figure.
This is not a major outage, but is obviously a hassle to have to keep logging into the router admin to do this just to get Internet again. I can't put my finger on it, but from #3 it sure looks like it's a setting on the router that's causing the problem. What other settings should we check?
Thanks for hanging in there....
Not sure what other ones there are....
I am assuming the timeout is set to zero so it never timesout?
Assume you followed Rob's suggestion re the firmware?
I am assuming the timeout is set to zero so it never timesout?
Assume you followed Rob's suggestion re the firmware?
ASKER
Yes - the firmware has been updated. I know because I did it myself.
I'll have the client login to the router control panel and look for a timeout setting.
I'll let you know what happens....
I'll have the client login to the router control panel and look for a timeout setting.
I'll let you know what happens....
Since we don't know if the connection is really down (did not look at the LEDs), can you have the client try to get to an external address using the IPAddress instead of the DNS DomainName (64.233.167.147 vs. www.google.com)? I had an outside client that had a similar problem last week and I narrowed it down to the outside DNS server loosing connection.. I changed the setting to use 4.2.2.1 (another public DNS server) and it has worked fine since then.. just a thought..
<<<When the link goes, can they still ping www.yahoo.com, an external ip address or similar? ie is it the browser that goes or is it definitely the whole connection? What is the status of the led's when it goes?
>>>
Still waiting for this.
>>>
Still waiting for this.
ASKER
"Still waiting for this."
Sorry, but this client is a law office that is not in on Sundays. I have to wait until they're back in the office to go in and try these things with the irksome router.
Have not a had a chance to try your suggestions as I was up 'til 4:00am today with a sick toddler. I will see if I can get in there today and get this fixed once and for all.
Will get back to you.
Thanks for your patience.
Sorry, but this client is a law office that is not in on Sundays. I have to wait until they're back in the office to go in and try these things with the irksome router.
Have not a had a chance to try your suggestions as I was up 'til 4:00am today with a sick toddler. I will see if I can get in there today and get this fixed once and for all.
Will get back to you.
Thanks for your patience.
No problem.. one of us are always hanging around... :)
ASKER
I got on the phone with client this morning and walked her through the ping tests; domain name/IP address for Yahoo! and Google. It's not just the browser going out when the Internet becomes unavailable. Running through ping tests shows 100% packet loss when pinging all outside IP's or domains, including a couple of DNS servers.
The LAN is still available when the Internet signal goes offline. Computers can still see each other and do file sharing.
LED's on the both the DSL modem and the router 'blink' when the Internet connection goes offline.
In order to solve the problem the client simply logs into the admin control panel for the router and goes to the Basic Settings tab and (without changing anything) just clicks on "Save Setttings". No unplugging the router, no powering down, or hitting "reset". Then the Internet connection comes back online and last for about 4 hours before becoming unavailable again.
I went to Linksys KB to see what was there and there was in issue listed for the Linksys BESFR81 router 'losing the Internet connection' periodically, so this is not the only unit to have this same issue. Their "fix" for this problem was to download a utility for fine-tuning the MTU settings, which the client did. The MTU is set at 1492 for this unit, which is supposed to be optimal, according to this utility.
They are STILL having the same intermittent Internet problem with the same "solution" bringing it back online. If I sound exasperated it's because I am ;-)
The LAN is still available when the Internet signal goes offline. Computers can still see each other and do file sharing.
LED's on the both the DSL modem and the router 'blink' when the Internet connection goes offline.
In order to solve the problem the client simply logs into the admin control panel for the router and goes to the Basic Settings tab and (without changing anything) just clicks on "Save Setttings". No unplugging the router, no powering down, or hitting "reset". Then the Internet connection comes back online and last for about 4 hours before becoming unavailable again.
I went to Linksys KB to see what was there and there was in issue listed for the Linksys BESFR81 router 'losing the Internet connection' periodically, so this is not the only unit to have this same issue. Their "fix" for this problem was to download a utility for fine-tuning the MTU settings, which the client did. The MTU is set at 1492 for this unit, which is supposed to be optimal, according to this utility.
They are STILL having the same intermittent Internet problem with the same "solution" bringing it back online. If I sound exasperated it's because I am ;-)
ASKER
The only thing we haven't done yet is plug a computer directly into the DSL modem to see if the Internet goes offline. I need to go in there with my laptop, hook it up and leave it running with some kind of test or utility to log Internet availability. I can't sit by and wait for 4 or more hours for it to 'maybe' go down.
My suspicion is that if I were to do this it would NOT go offline because the Linksys 4-port router does not have any problems with intermittent Internet when it is connected. Therefore, I have no reason to believe the modem or the incoming signal is the problem.
My suspicion is that if I were to do this it would NOT go offline because the Linksys 4-port router does not have any problems with intermittent Internet when it is connected. Therefore, I have no reason to believe the modem or the incoming signal is the problem.
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ASKER
Just a status on this (still) outstanding router issue...
We've contacted Linkys tech support and started an e-mail trouble ticket. Their response was something along the lines of "We do not give refunds on defective products....it's our policy as stated in blah, blah, blah". Then asked if we changed the IP address on the router to 192.168.2.1 if that would solve the problem.
It doesn't.
I've put the ball back in their court. After TWO defective BESFR81 units and their poor response to two months of struggling to get them working I'm extremely disappointed in Linksys' handling of the matter.
I"m going to end this thread and just award points to Fatal Exception for conferring about the 'defective status' of this router. Linksys has really dropped the ball on this one. At least this thread may get the word out to the IT community about their less-than-stellar quality control and rotten technical support.
Thanks for hanging in there with me.
We've contacted Linkys tech support and started an e-mail trouble ticket. Their response was something along the lines of "We do not give refunds on defective products....it's our policy as stated in blah, blah, blah". Then asked if we changed the IP address on the router to 192.168.2.1 if that would solve the problem.
It doesn't.
I've put the ball back in their court. After TWO defective BESFR81 units and their poor response to two months of struggling to get them working I'm extremely disappointed in Linksys' handling of the matter.
I"m going to end this thread and just award points to Fatal Exception for conferring about the 'defective status' of this router. Linksys has really dropped the ball on this one. At least this thread may get the word out to the IT community about their less-than-stellar quality control and rotten technical support.
Thanks for hanging in there with me.
Sorry to hear about your unresolved issue, especially the poor support you got from Linksys.. bet if Cisco finds out, heads will role.. (I have always had tremendous support when calling Cisco)...
Hope you get it resolved with another router! and thanks!
FE
Hope you get it resolved with another router! and thanks!
FE
FE