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2 networks on 1 cable

Posted on 2007-03-23
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I have a client who has 2 businesses, and want a seperate server for each in the same building on teh same cabling, would it be possible to run 2 SBS servers with different IP ranges on the same cabling wihtoug any dramas?
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Question by:Dinga84
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by:Olaf De Ceuster
ID: 18778990
As long as you use diffrent subnets you should be OK. But why not put in 2 x different switches (Hubs), just to make sure. The seperate hubs will seperate your networks anyway. Switches are cheap.
Hope that helps,
Olaf
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by:MarkMichael
ID: 18779239
DHCP will pick up machines and prevent this from being an issue-free environment. Have I missed something here, as I'm sure this will cause a problem...
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by:Olaf De Ceuster
ID: 18779718
DHCP will only hand out IPranges within it's scope.
If these ranges do not overlap...no issues because you can't have the same IP twice.
If you don't understand the scope please play it safe and put  SBS1 on the 10.whatever range and make sure that range is excluded on the DHCP in SBS2
Put SBS2 in 192.whatever range and make sure thart range is excluded from SBS1.

Better still: Keep them Physically seperate  by using TWO hubs: One for each SBS.
Hope that helps,
Olaf
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by:Dinga84
ID: 18779738
Two hubs will require alot of cabling and exepnse.

I was planning on using DHCP to assign IP's to certain mac addresses, that way as far as i can tell both networks can co-exist without problem. (I hope)
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by:Fred Marshall
ID: 18779841
You certainly need some mechanism to keep DHCP separated.  While the DHCP will only assign addresses within its range, how does it know to *not* assign an address to the "wrong" computer interface?  The MAC address scheme may be fine if the equipment supports doing that.
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Olaf De Ceuster earned 150 total points
ID: 18779842
You need one cable per machine anyway. So amount of cables will be the same. At server end you terminate to one hub for server1 and another hub for server2....what am I missing here???
Olaf
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by:Dinga84
ID: 18779901
Equipment does support assigning IP based on MAC.

The office is desksharing so users of one business would need to go into the server room and ensure there machine was plugged into the correct switch or they wont be able to log on.
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by:Fred Marshall
ID: 18779926
You said "same cabling" and, not specifically, "same cable".  
2 physical networks can probably be run on one standard cable but it's not recommended because there'd be a nonstandard, wierd situation that would be difficult for someone new to work on, troubleshoot, etc.  (It would make use of all 4 twisted pairs in the cable - 2 pairs per physical network).
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by:MarkMichael
ID: 18779935
I don't see how you can put an X amount of clients on the same switch as another, with 2 DHCP servers.  As the topic requested, 2 networks on one wire? I apologise if i'm totally off game here, but thats how I'm seeing it
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by:Dinga84
ID: 18779964
MarkMichael, i could assin static IP's to the second network, or assin IP's based on MAC address, so if certain MAC addresses contact the DHCP server it would issue 10.0.0.* where as all other clients would get a 192.168.0.* address.

Or again staticlally assing 10 range to the new network, and leave the existing DHCP server to assing address to all non static IP machines.

I understand its a weird situation, but i need to know if there are any issues, just cause its non standard doesnt mean it wont work.
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by:Olaf De Ceuster
ID: 18779975
Same cable (as opposed to same cabling) will not work unless you follow fmarshall suggestion and use 4 strands per network. You're in for a bumpy ride.
Cheaper to put two wireless systems in, or a lead system and one wireless. And so you know. Running two cables to the one spot is virtually the same price as one cable.
Olaf
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by:kevinthatcher2000
kevinthatcher2000 earned 150 total points
ID: 18780364
I have a network similar like that.  All you need to do is basically "turn off" dhcp on one network, then turn it on for the other network.  The other option is to run them both statically.  You could do statically if you don't want someone to easily bounce on the other network.  Also, make sure domain security is good and local computer security is strong so you don't have one trying to get into the other's computers.

Then the only other little hiccup is to setup the router/firewall.  But I don't know how extensively you audit.

Hope this helps...
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by:MarkMichael
ID: 18780731
Ahh, i see. That's something I never thought about before.. Thanks for the headsup.
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by:Fred Marshall
Fred Marshall earned 100 total points
ID: 18781051
I sense a serious topological problem as you mentioned "desk sharing" between companies / servers, yes?  You talk about switching wires around...... wow.  Not a good idea.

As often happens, we're in the midst of impelentation details before the specifications are clear.  Here's what I perceive from your comments:

- There are two companies, each with their own server.
- There are multiple desks/computers which are shared between companies / servers.
- You want users to share computers and be able to operate on their own company's server.
- You anticipate having the servers on separate subnets.
At issue is:
How to accomodate switching from one server to the other as workers move onto and away from a desk/computer?

I would do this (if there are no real security issues between companies - it appears not):
- Go to all static IP addresses.
- Assign a static IP address for *each* subnet to each computer.  Each computer will use one of two addresses assigned to it (on paper).
- Use the same workgroup name for both companies.
- Use something like NetSwitcher on the computers and change IP addresses to change company context when necessary.  Maybe align logins with scripts so the IP address automatically aligns the login with the right server.

I don't see a physical problem here.  Just a logical one.
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by:HighTechGeek
HighTechGeek earned 100 total points
ID: 18783476
Why don't you go all static ip addresses, put everyone on the same ip address scheme and have each server setup with its own domain. Then when a user sits down to sign into the domain, they can choose the domain that they want to sign into.
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by:Dinga84
ID: 18783498
HighTechGeek, do you know if SBS server will work with that setup, its pretty touchy about being the only sbs server in the root of the forrest which was one of my main concerns.

Otherwise i think i have a few possible solutions from what people are saying, thanks again.
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by:Olaf De Ceuster
ID: 18783705
I assumed thetwo companies had their own machines. And oly same cabling infrastructure was used.
Sharing one machine will only work if you have one sbs and two terminal servers. The terminal servers can sit on the same SBS box using VM ware.(Virtual machines)
THe SBS can be used to download email for the two CO's and clients can choose what terminal server they use.
ON XP you can't choose between domains (SBS has to be a domain, not workgroup). You can only join one domain.
I don't think SBS is the correct OS for this. You probably want to look at win 2k3.
Olaf
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by:Dinga84
ID: 18783796
Each company has its own SBS server, i will run each on a different subnet, and desk sharing will have to be axed except between people working for the same company.
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by:Olaf De Ceuster
ID: 18783873
Good move. Olaf
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by:Dinga84
ID: 18789559
Cheers,

And thanks for all your help/idea's.
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