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pop3 connector does not route BCC copy of the mail Exchange 2003

Posted on 2007-03-26
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Last Modified: 2008-01-09
I am using Exchange built in with SBS 2003 server and I have 3 pop3 connectors to retreive the mail from different domains. I use routing rules to distribute the emails from global email box to the users. My problem is when any one marks copy as BCC (blind copy) it doesnt go thru user and it routes thru undelieverable msg and comes to the administrator.

Strange thing is in routing rules there are options of filtering in TO and CC but not really in bcc and i think thats why it can not route it correctly.

Is there any way i can route the BCC copies to the right user thru pop3 connector.
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Question by:good_guys21
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by:amaheshwari
ID: 18791182
This is limitation of POP3 connector in SBS2003:
check this:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/265739/en-us
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by:good_guys21
ID: 18791197
is there any other way to work around ? thru filtering or something else ?
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by:Sembee
ID: 18792079
The only way round this problem is to drop the POP3 connector.
The POP3 connector is not designed as a long term solution and you should be looking to move to SMTP delivery, which is how Exchange is designed to work. Any reason you aren't using SMTP delivery?

Simon.
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Assisted Solution

by:djxtreme
djxtreme earned 200 total points
ID: 18802065
There is several alternatives, however I have always had best out of EFS by Chimera.
They do a free one, and the full is about $49 so its a bargain!

http://www.chimera.co.nz/

as for SMTP delivery Sembee, am i right in that you mean forwarding his MX records to his pubilc IP? I always considered this bad move, especially as we dont even know if he has a static IP on his public side.

Try EFS free, it supports forwarding using BCC :)

dj
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Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy earned 300 total points
ID: 18848794
Answering for Sembee (since I'm quite aware of his opinion on this):

"as for SMTP delivery Sembee, am i right in that you mean forwarding his MX records to his pubilc IP? I always considered this bad move, especially as we dont even know if he has a static IP on his public side"

HUH?  Exchange is not designed to be a POP3 Connector email distribution system.  It's an SMTP Email Server and it works best when your MX record point directly to it.  (Not to the Public IP actually, because you can't point an MX record to an IP address... it must point to a HOST name, which in turn points to the IP).  Having a staic IP is not required if you use a dynamic IP service.  

If you want to make any other excuses for keeping the POP3 Connector in service you should probably first read Sembee's excellent article which gives you every reason to NOT keep using the POP3 Connector:
http://www.sembee.com/archive/2006/09/25/28.aspx

:-)

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:good_guys21
ID: 18937485
I have found interesting thing happening. when some one in my compnay sends email to 3 ppl. email will triplicate to all three users. If some one sends to 5 ppl . it will comes 5 times.. so basically it duplicates or triplicates depends on the number of To or CC.

any ideas from experts ?
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by:djxtreme
ID: 18937630
Jeff,

Where I can partially agree with you and sembee's POV on SMTP over POP3, It just doesnt "feel" right in my head (so to speak).
 I have always practiced the method of using a 3rd party POP3 poller. I can poll as often as 60 seconds (which in reality is a really small amount of time), I dont require a static IP, or a dynamic Ip with installed software to reflect changes (which btw on my last checking, some dynamic companies only allow 5minute intervals. so on a IP change, you have a 5minute timeslot where there isnt any SMTP server accepting incoming emails). I also dont have to open the server out onto the internet, as this is a point that isnt mentioned anywhere. SMTP servers (be them exchange or not) are never 100% secure.
In fact, I always took it as a better idea to open as little of the server out onto the internet, with the exceptions being the likes of VPN ports, or RPC over HTTP if needed.
Also, in the event of a internet failure (I have had bt knock internet lines off for 12-24hours + before now), the users can simply dial up via a modem and check webmail to make sure any critical emails are read and actioned.

If the UK internet situation was better, or if more companies took leased lines (or any other high-reliability line), then I would love to point MX records at SMTP exchange servers. It would make my life easier, and would give a better overall experience. However, as it stands I dont belive that the UK market is ready for this just yet, which in my opinion is a massive shame.

Back on topic;

good guyz, have you dropped the POP3 connector built in, for either another POP3 connector, or direct SMTP Mx pointing (whichever you prefer)?
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by:good_guys21
ID: 18937655
Its still POP3 connector and as we havent got backup MX record so I am not switching it on SMTP at the moment. But my problem is exchange route the emails 3 or 4 or 5 times depends how many TO or CC users in each email.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 18937736
"I have found interesting thing happening. when some one in my compnay sends email to 3 ppl. email will triplicate to all three users. If some one sends to 5 ppl . it will comes 5 times.. so basically it duplicates or triplicates depends on the number of To or CC."

This is another fault with the POP3 connector.  It does NOT support BCC and will duplicate CC'd messages.  If you want to better understand why this occurs, please read this Microsoft KB article which clearly describes the processes that the POP3 connector makes...  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885685

With regards to having a backup MX record... why are you so concerned about this?  I don't even configure those anymore as they are targets for SPAM.


djxtreme... I still disagree with you on most of those points.  
Regarding Dynamic IP's -- how often do they really change anyhow.  So what if it's a 5-minute interval if the IP doesn't change but every three months.  Most Dynamic IP addresses in the US are tied to the MAC address of the modem, so as long as you don't change modems or hard reset the device the IP stays pretty constant.  I'm not sure how they behave in the UK, but I doubt that they change very often.  (unlike dial-up Dynamic IP's which change about every 3 minutes)

Regarding being open to the Internet -- security is ALWAYS a risk/reward situation.  The benefit of Small Business Server is that there are great tools to ensure things are properly configured and there are great monitoring features.  If security is a main issue, then use SBS Premium with ISA Server.  See this article on "good enough" security:  http://sbsurl.com/security

Regarding Internet failure:  Did you know that Exchange can also be configured to "Dial-up" to retrieve email?  Review the help sections in Exchange for "TURN after Authentication" -- designed especially for dynamic IP dial-on-demand.  This can easily be configured within minutes as a fall-back solution.  With no need for any modification in user behavior.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:good_guys21
ID: 18937828
So basically it will duplicate the msg as number of CC marked !! thats interesting..I need back up MX in case our server/internet goes down we should not loose our emails. I have got fixed ip with business broadband but what will happen in case broadband is down ?
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by:djxtreme
ID: 18937840
Jeff;

UK dynamics change more or less everytime you re-connect. I have had customer's ADSL lines reconnect every 3-4 hours, depending on the quality of phone line upto their ADSL point. And as I said, its not that I disagree with you, I just dont think that it is the be all and end all of solutions, especially for the UK market.

And the reason he doesnt want to create a MX change, is that without a backup MX record in, his emails may go awry as the DNS servesr world-wide update.

If this is the route to take however, why dont you create a 2nd MX record with a lower value that points to your exchange server? after 24-48 hours remove the old MX record, and voila you have a single MX record pointing at your public IP / Hostname. dont forget to assign your ip a hostname, be it a dynamic one, or a subdomain of your main domain (ie mail.yourcompany.com).

dont forget to forward port 25 from your router onto your server, or enable access within any other firewalls you may have.
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by:djxtreme
ID: 18937857
good guys; read the link that jeff posted to sembee's site - that will tel you the best way to have a backup in case your internet goes down.

better yet, go get EFS (link in my first post), dont change any MX records and just use a better POP3 poller than the built-in one. EFS is free, and supports BCC et al. only downside is it wont run as a service until you pay for it (but its cheap)
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by:good_guys21
ID: 18937970
Thank you very much experts for your time and advice. I think i will switch over to SMTP very soon. Thank you very much djxtreme your solution is really good solution to avoid SMTP as far as possible.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 18938167
No problem... but just to clarify, "without a backup MX record in, his emails may go awry as the DNS servesr world-wide update"  this is an entirely false statement.  There is no such thing as a world-wide DNS server update, and emails won't go awry.  The cached DNS will assure the sending server that a receiving SMTP server exists and the sending server will patiently await the connection for a couple of days without bouncing the message.

There's a great overview of how email works here:  http://computer.howstuffworks.com/email.htm

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:djxtreme
ID: 18938414
I think its a bit unfair to call it an entirely false statement? and that link has no true bearing on what I was suggesting.

If he changes his MX records, there is a DNS server update issued from the DNS servers his domain is hosted on. this can take anwhere upto 48hours to replicated throughout the world's DNS server population (for want of a better terminology). If we think about this, it is quite possible that whilst a DNS server located in lets say London would have his correct MX update, yet another in New York may not, as it may not have recieved the update notification.

What happens if someone tries to email him if they are posted on the opposite side of the NY DNS server? It routes to his old MX record, therefore giving him the possibility of not recieving the email at all. There would be no queue as the MX record would still be valid. Even if he closed off the POP3 account, most mailservers give a "User unknown" NDR back to the sender, therefore disabling the NY sender from sending them email either way.

As suggested by myself, switching POP3 clients would enable him to still poll his current POP3 server, whilst transitioning (if thats what he wants to do) to a SMTP delivery method. This is the only guarenteed method of him not losing any email, whilst fixing his problem. "Just" changing the MX records, even if he keeps his current pop3 connector, doesnt completley solve his current issue, and may cause a slight transitional problem or two in the mean time.

And I thank you for your link, but I am already aware of how email works already.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 18938527
Sorry then I misunderstood you... but the proper way to do this would be to ADD an MX record, with a higher preference (lower number) than the current one... so you are not "changing" the MX record.  Allow email to flow to both the current POP3 server as well as to the Exchange server.  Once DNS propagates, remove the old MX record.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 18938533
Also, the link of how email works wasn't for you.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:djxtreme
ID: 18938804
"
If this is the route to take however, why dont you create a 2nd MX record with a lower value that points to your exchange server? after 24-48 hours remove the old MX record, and voila you have a single MX record pointing at your public IP / Hostname. dont forget to assign your ip a hostname, be it a dynamic one, or a subdomain of your main domain (ie mail.yourcompany.com).
".

and maybe next time make sure your links are directed at who they are for.

Thanks!

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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 18939890
what can I say, I'm on drugs this morning.  :-)
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by:djxtreme
ID: 18940107
Lucky ******* :-)
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 18940343
Yeah... perhaps... if it wasn't anti-histamines and caugh syrup.

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by:djxtreme
ID: 18941174
lol that just sucks ;)
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