HP 8100 paper jams coming out of tray 2, new rollers dont help.

Hi, Experts.  I have a HP 8100that  paper jams coming out of tray 2,. The paper doesnt make it into the paper input assy.  I changed the three rollers that pick the paper out of the tray, this did not fix it.   I have looked and dont see anything in the paper path.  Its not a solid jam but often enough to render the machine down.  More of a problem on long jobs, not short ones.  Someone suggested I replace the entire paper input assy. That seems a bit much
any ideas?
195ecentralaveAsked:
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michkoCommented:
Since you already replaced the three rollers, its most likely something else in the paper pickup assembly.  May be the sensor, maybe spring, maybe clutch or motor is acting up.  You may want to just replace the entire paper pickup assembly.  Parts breakdown for this is at the link below:

http://h20141.www2.hp.com/hpparts/SearchDiagram.asp?mscssid=4XP0TBP5HJ4C9P9J9FD5G9TXW49B2EBA

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195ecentralaveAuthor Commented:
is that a hard job?  i am pretty good wtih these things, a former mainframe peripheral engineer, but some things are really hard.  do you know how big a job it is?

i clicked the link but it did not come up

you can get entire pip assy on ebay
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michkoCommented:
Can't tell you how big of a job it is, haven't actually had to replace the paper input assy on that model.  From looking at the parts breakdown, it seems doable.

Sorry the link didn't work, apparently wouldn't bring in model information.  Here's the link to their parts page, enter your model and you can get to the breakdown / parts list / diagrams.
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joedCommented:
Try this. Open the right side door. There is a double riller there that feed the paper up into the regitration rollers from the paper pickup assy. Try to turn the rollers. They should turn one way but no the other. The one drive gear often goes bad and will slip. You will be able to randomly spin the roller both ways. Some times it will grab. Sometimes not. If it ever slips even once then you have your problem. The real fix a new roller and gear. Often a spot of oil or WD40 into the gear will resolve the problem. Cleaning the roller also might help. I have replaced many of them. If you want I have the part numbers for the gear and roller even though HP doesn't show a breakout for them in there documentation. You can order them from Canon.
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195ecentralaveAuthor Commented:
I checked those and they appear to be ok. this printer ran 45 pages, then stopped on one. the paper is still in the upper tray (i dont use the lower one) and it appears that the upper black roller had not grabbed the paper to feed it into the two blue rollers to feed it into the paper picup assy.  I had replaced all three of these rollers. It could be that the "new" replacement rollers have been sitting around for a long time and aren't "sticky" enough.  I used eucalyptus oil on the rollers and ran 50 more through without a jam.  Do these rollers go bad just sitting around?  Do you know anything better than eucalyptus oil to make the rollers "sticky" again?  I have swapped out the drawers with other printers and that doesn't help.
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joedCommented:
Check the slip clutch behind the lower feed roller. It slips off the shaft after you remove the roller.
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195ecentralaveAuthor Commented:
Really!  I did not even know there was one there.  what does it look like?  If it is gone, how will I know it? Would it drop into the bottom of the paper tray?
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joedCommented:
Pull the lower separation roller off and there is another piece that will slip off the shaft. It is about 1/2 inch long and 1/2 inch diameter.
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195ecentralaveAuthor Commented:
I found the slip clutch.  Never noticed it before.  Swapped it with a working unit, no help.  What is next? the entire paper input assy?  What else would you suggest?  I have read some posts in other forums and this seems to be a really difficult problem to pin down sometimes.  My users are getting pretty testy.
Your input is appreciated.
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joedCommented:
What is the actual jam 13.what? Does it have anything to do with duplex printing? At this point I don't have anything to suggest.
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michkoCommented:
That's why I suggested you may want to replace the entire assembly.  
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195ecentralaveAuthor Commented:
The jam itself occurs when the paper is attempted to be removed from the tray. sometimes there is a crinkle at the point where the rollers would grab it, other times it appears that the rollers did not even try.  Does the paper input assy have a clutch or gear or something that could slip and cause the rollers not to roll, or slip or stop rolling intermittently.  AT this point I a ready to do anythigng short of replacing the entire printer to get this resolved!
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195ecentralaveAuthor Commented:
replaced the entire assy.  not too difficult, now runs paper through like a champ.  however, now there is no print!!  So, I am posting a new request for expert assistance.  I am sure I just did something stupid.
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