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MX Record dilemma

Posted on 2007-07-30
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Last Modified: 2009-07-16
Hello all;
   
     I need help on some MX records and how I should address the fact that I will be moving all my users from a local hosted pop3 email server to an Exchange server environment, the trick here is that I have multiple offices (Houston, Saltlake Indianapolis) that will remain on the pop3 accounts until I can get to them so that I can change the user from using a PST to a OST. Which I have no problem.

 My confusion starts  when I start thinking about how to manage the fact that a client (outside) need to send emails to a user who now will live in the new Exchange when Im actually having a new MX record for my domain.

Can I have 2 MX records for one domain but that are two different servers with different external IPs? how?

Let me see if I can explain this a little better

mail.polarialsbs.com    
The above is my current MX record

mx1.polarislabs.com
this would be my new MX record for Exchange

how can I have a user I just migrated to exchange receive emails from his client when his client has user@polarislabs.com.

have in mind that I cant kill the POP 3 mail server because I will still have my other users getting emails there until I migrate them.

In other words I need both MX records up until I have migrated everyone to exchange
But they should have to be able to receive emails on whatever server they retrieve from.


Does this make sense?
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Question by:IT_Resource
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LVL 22

Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19592186
Can I have 2 MX records for one domain but that are two different servers with different external IPs? how?
Yes, you can have 2 mx for 1 domain with 2 different server either with same or different wieght
Question:
who do users currently get mail?

You problem will be mail only delivers in 1 location so dual mx wont be the answer for you in my opinion.

Typically what you do, create an object or setup a forward in either direction.

This could be a long explaination, I will see if you follow what I wrote to save some typing...unless you need me to break it down
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Expert Comment

by:JohnDemerjian
ID: 19592568
I think I've done what you want to do.  You need to slowly migrate users off of the old pop mail server on to the new Exchange server.  What I did was to register another domain name to help in the transition.  I left the original domain and MX record pointing to company.com and made a new one called companyINC.com and pointed it to my new Exchange server.  Each user on the Exchange server got two email addresses after their migration (a temporary condition).  They each got a company.com and a companyINC.com email address.  From the Internet, users would send to the original company.com address and it would hit the pop server.  On the pop server I had it configured to forward all mail for that migrated user to the exchange server immediately.  So let me recap:
1. create new domain called companyINC.com and MX pointing to Exchange
2. each new user on Exchange gets a company.com and a companyINC.com email address
3. each migrated user from the pop server gets their mail forwarded from the pop server to the exchange server.

i kept going this way until all users were migrated to exchange.  at the end of it all, i killed the MX record for companyINC.com and changed the MX record for company.com to point to Exchange.  This all worked perfectly and the only negative side effect was that recipients of email messages outside of the company would get email from companyINC.com email addresses.  So because autocomplete was turned on for some of them, the bogus email address was remembered past the final cutover.  usually users would get an undeliverable email and contact the person in our company they were trying to send to.  i had the whole company trained to say "that address was just a temporary shim to enable our exchange migration and you should ignore it and use our real address".  
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19592650
you can keep the reply address of migrated users the same as it was before .......

set the reply address of user to to company.com and set exchange not to be authoratative for this name , they way all migrated user still have the same reply addy

everything else sounds good
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Expert Comment

by:JohnDemerjian
ID: 19592693
ATIG

You know, I forgot that I learned that right at the end of the migration!  Thanks for reminding me...
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19592753
:)

did I answer you question or anything you feel is still unanswered?
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19592768
John I get your Idea from the point of view that you can't have 1 domain serving 2 mx records for 2 different servers.
but if I add a like you say companyINC.com
What changes do I have to apply internally? Or on the exchange server, how do you make exchange serve 1 domain companyINC.com and then company.com?
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19592797
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by:JohnDemerjian
ID: 19592879
In the ESM for Exchange, your default recipient policy is what drives the creation of the SMTP email address for your organization.  I started this off by having the Exchange server own the @companyINC.com email addresses exclusively and then added the @company.com address only to the individual mailbox of each migrated user.  This point answers your question directly.  This is how you make exchange serve 1 domain companyINC.com and then company.com simultaneously.  

Think about the flow of mail for a moment.  When a message comes from the Internet, it will ONLY be routed to the POP server.  For users who have not been migrated, mail stays at the pop server.  for users you have been migrated, their email is forwarded to Exchange (make sure you can set your pop server to forward an indivdual mailbox to another server).  Now for users who are internal and already on Exchange, if they send to another recipient on Exchange, the Exchange server will know that recipient is internal to itself and will not forward to the pop server.  if the internal user however, sends to bob@company.com and that user is not internal to Exchange yet, it will be treated like any other Internet bound email and forwarded off to get resolved by DNS.
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19592911
John, thx for the detailed typing... its Monday for me :)
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19592945
so I do need to create the DNS foward zone for companyINC.com?
and make sure company.com (internatlly) can ping, foward and talk to companyINC.com

how do you then get rid of companyINC.com , will it leave a lot of garbage in the exchange environment?
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19593036
you woudl have write a script, the RUS only adds to the objects.

but it will not hurt if that is left behind.
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19593132
you lost me ATIG
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19593175
sorry, I am editing an Exchange book at the moment and jumping around :)

you ask about all the names being left behind.

On the Exchange server when you edit the recpient policy to stamp company.com and companyinc.com on the users that info will be left on the account when you are done with it.

The policy does not remove info only adds.

If you want to remove the no longer needed info you would have to write a script to do so.

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Expert Comment

by:JohnDemerjian
ID: 19593197
I did not have to write a script.  Yes, the Exchange server needs a DNS entry to resolve internally but this is only a host record (A record) and you don't need to worry about resolving @companyINC.com internally because, again, those emails will never leave the Exchange server.  they get resolved internally.  The Internet facing MX record says "when you get an email for companyINC.com send it to this IP address).  So there is no need for even an A record on the Inernet.

There is no mess left behind after the migration.  none.  to get rid of companyINC.com you only need to go through the exchange server and delete the companyINC.com email addresses from each mailbox and change the default recipient policy to company.com.  
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by:JohnDemerjian
ID: 19593221
regarding the script:  i suppose i should clarfy.  i had 100 users so i did not bother to script it.  if you have many more or hate doing things manually, perhaps you'd chose to write a script that remove the @companyINC.com email address from each mail box.
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19593223
hahah.... guess you work in small envrionments :)

If I want to remove an smtp address from 50,000 mailboxes they only way to go is a script :)

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Expert Comment

by:JohnDemerjian
ID: 19593267
very true!
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19593286
yep ony 110 users.

so since this is a new exchange comming about I should be ok setting my domain to be other than company.com to companyINC.com?

when you install exchange isn't it true that it pools all your users from AD?
how would I do this without the same domain?
sorry guys I'm fairly new to exchange
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19593353
The email domain is sepearte from anything... you could add puppyfood.com as an email address , as long as its in dns things would work. Your AD domain does not have to correlate to the smtp address.
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Assisted Solution

by:JohnDemerjian
JohnDemerjian earned 400 total points
ID: 19593367
yes it is okay to set your domain (from the recipient policy) to be something other than your real domain.  i've done it.

exchange gives all users a mailbox, but you control which email addresses make it to those mailboxes.  you seem to understand this all well enough.  i suggest you try it by building your exchange server and migrating a couple of test accounts over.  the only way to really see it is to do it once yourself.  build the exchange server right, you don't want to have to remove a bad installation.  but you can practice the migration until you fully understand it without impacting others.
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Expert Comment

by:JohnDemerjian
ID: 19593382
ATIG

Since I've got your attention I'd appreciate you feedback on my question if you have any...

http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Server/Windows_2003_Active_Directory/Q_22728851.html?cid=239#a19593370
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19594354
ATIG to your question
my current domain has no problem receiving emails.

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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19594870
Reading the recipient policy has helped my understanding this a little better.
And after following the guide on that Microsoft link to have more that one SMTP domain it turns out that my Exchange Test environment has the This Exchange Organization is responsible for all mail delivery..." is grayed out.
any ideas?
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19600377
Never mind my previous message guys :)

Since Im introducing this new Exchange server when I'm installing and configuring should I start with my default Domain being my polarislabs.com? Which is my true domain outside and then add my internal made-up domain say TEST.LOC to the SMTP Connectors? Does the order matter?

ATIG: when you say "set the reply address of user to company.com is this done on outlook client or on the ESM somewhere? Where?
"and then set exchange not to be authoritative for this name," is this my true domain name that I have to uncheck in ESM ? Should my TEST.loc domain be set exchange to be authoritative?

I'm just trying to get a well understanding of what I'm going to be doing here
By the way you guys have been very helpful
Thanks for all the input
Note:
I added 100 points to the question since this is not as easy as I thought :)
Louie
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19600433
Exchange setting-- done via the recpient policy in 2003 and EAP in 2007

 by deafult when you install Exchange it will only set you internal domain information and you will have to add the external info
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19600544
unfortunately I've been in the current job for less than a year and the internal domain was set as polarislabs.com so are you saying just go ahead and installa exchange this way and then add my temporary domain and set the temporary domain as my default?
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19600657
you want to keep the replay address as the correct address for your users, the temp address is just added as a 2nd ary
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19619949
I have followed to the best of my knowledge the referred material as to how to have the 2 SMTP domains in the ESM and can figure for the life of me how to get it going

Went to a test box and tried to establish a new account that points to the Exchange box if I try using the automatic way where outlook 2007 finds everything for you I get a certificate error , not sure why and then if I do it manual I can finish but now every time I try to open outlook I get a:

cannot open your default e-mail folder. You must connect to Microsoft Exchange with the current profile before you can synchronize your folders with your offline folder file

If I try to open the http://server ip/exchange I get a popup box and when I give credentials it just comes right back
What exactly am I supposed to do in the SMTP connectors, Recipients Policy so that I can have my polarislabs.com and my polaris.int working for me???

John :

On your reply when you say let me recap:
1.      create a new domain called companyINC.com
what exactly are you saying here , you dont mean like create a domain right? Where do I create this name at? In the Recipient Policy?

Wont the system be confused that if the PC is joined to the domain polarislabs.com Im attaching a user whos email is polaris.int? I mean being exchange you know

Please help
thanks
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19620303
Got it to work!
The services for Microsoft Exchange System Attendant was not started
And Microsoft Exchange Information Store was off.

So now I can go to

http:// servername/exchange

and if I type my true user@polarislabs.com  and my network password I get in but
when I send out an email it comes outside as user@polaris.int
how do I go about using my default user@polarislabs.com ???

I know you mention it but where do I apply the changes?

Thanks

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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19620360
What I have done is create a forward in my old POP3 Email to my polaris.int and when I send an email from the outside to user@polarislabs.com I get 2 undelivered messages and then I get the email in the old pop3

Any idea?
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by:JohnDemerjian
ID: 19624108
I'm not sure why you'd get 2 undelivered messages.  Think about the message flow and what should be happening and you'll probably figure it out.  You may be making the configuration more difficlult than it needs to be.  you start with a working exchange server for the polaris.int domain (Internet and internal email) and then you add these steps to finish it off:

 each new user on Exchange gets a company.com and a companyINC.com email address
 each migrated user from the pop server gets their mail forwarded from the pop server to the exchange server.
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19624534
old mail system only needs company.com new needs company.com and company.int

old mail system recieves mail for company.com --> user@company.int

user on new mail system should have primary smtp as company.com

All mail should route to old system--> new or vice versa
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19638177
Ok
ATIG: I have followed your advice to the T
-Old Mail system has polarislabs.com (no changes there)
-The new Mail Server has 2 SMTP in the Recipients Policy (polaris.int and polarislabs.com) where polarislabs.com was set as the primary, and now when I log in to the OWA with user@polarislabs.com and send out an email, it comes across to the outside as user@polarislabs.com instead as user@polaris.int like before so thats a + but when I reply to the email sent using OWA and after I have set a forward rule to forward emails to user@polaris.int I get at least 7 mailer Undelivered Messages saying:

Attached message cannot be delivered to these recipients:
 user@polaris.int - 'polaris.int': 550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for  user@polaris.int

What am I doing wrong?

P.S
Thanks for your patience in this matter.
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19638220
Sounds like you need to make a config change on the old system. Which is not Exchange

In Exchange I would create an smtp connector for polaris.int that points to the new mail system...

Can the old system resolve polaris.int?
do you have a connector created to route mail to polaris.int from old to new?
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19638295
John:
When you say
"You start with a working exchange server for the polaris.int domain (Internet and internal email)
Can elaborate a little more to this? I thought you said that the internet end was not necessary
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19638348
What he was stating is when a user on the new 2007 deploments sends a message the reply address is polaris.com which routes to the old mail system and forwards to the new.
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19638447
I'm looking at some documentation for LanSuite602 for the Preset routes option
I will post any updates soon
Regards
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19638486
Observation:
If in the SMTP connectors where you choose which SMTP connector to SET AS Primary I have my polarislabs.com selected and not my polaris.int will it still process email for polaris.int ?
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Expert Comment

by:ATIG
ID: 19638514
The connector is really used to route the mail, since polaris.int is not real or does not have MX you need to tell the old system where to send the mail to.

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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19638689
right and I have by doing it by IP.

but what I'm thinking is that when I check my mail in the new EXchange I use OWA and when it asks for credentials I put in user@polarislabs.com and not user@polaris.int .
which might explain why I don't see any new emails in there. or does this matter at all?

are they bothe the same to Exchange?

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by:ATIG
ID: 19638734
that is just your upn logon, which can be set to either.....

or   domain\user  or just user  

current old system is authoratative for MX for p.com?

Did you setup the shared name space on the new system so it will route mail for p.com to the old?

http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/Exchange-2003-SMTP-Namespace-Sharing.html

1. Once you have the RUS and namespace completed
2. Work the routing

Think of the route as a semi circle
All inbound p.com to old server
forwards mail to new server to X user
new system currently only recievs mail from old

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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19638817
to your question:
current old system is authoratative for MX for p.com?
yes
I did do the name sharing as the link suggested

I think it's the old Mail system LANSUITE602 that's not helping me out becasue I still get the
undelivered messages when it tries to foward email
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Author Comment

by:IT_Resource
ID: 19645233
ok guys
Got it resolved!
The whole mess had to do with the fact that I was trying to use 2 different options of mail routing as one. So what I was doing was:
-Creating the SMTP in the Recipient Policy and setting my Temp domain as Authoritative which is fine and then I was also creating an SMTP connector to route e-mail to the remote e-mail system which I guess its just going in circles

Once I removed the SMTP connector and Restarted the Routing and SMTP services
everything is the way I want it to be.
Hey guys Thanks a bunch for all the help
Since ATIG  answered all almost all my questions I think it should be fair to have him get the majority of the point how about 250 and 100?
Thanks
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Accepted Solution

by:
ATIG earned 1000 total points
ID: 19645255
Its all good, I am just glad that you got eveything working...
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Expert Comment

by:JohnDemerjian
ID: 19646246
that's fine with me.  thanks for the points.  sorry i couldn't contribute more but my day job has to come frst! :)  until next time...
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