(Overheat) Overclocking Intel P4 D865GBF

Hi,

My system (under windows Vista, but it did under XP too) overheats A LOT (talking of temperatures over 80 Celcius in the processor zone), and I would like to take this heat a little down... It is a problem I have since the purchase (september 2005) and it doesn't get any better! I didn't overclock my cpu, but I would like to take it down a little bit, I think it could help (like taking it from 3.00Ghz to 2.6), but I heard it is impossible with this kind of processor, that I can only change the FSB. Is that true? If not, vould anyone explain to me how to proceed.

Any other ideas to make it cooler are welcome!! ( i tried adding fans... doesn't change a damn thing)

Thank you!
Flopizzz
flopizzzAsked:
Who is Participating?
 
FeMasterCommented:
Is this something you bought new, built yourself, or maybe had someone build for you?

I think the first step I would take would be to remove the heatsink and check the heatsink compound (thermal grease.)  You would be surprised (I know I was!) at how many people build systems, and put NOTHING between the processor and heatsink.

It's also possible, if it's not a retail system,  that the heatsink and fan combination are not adequate, or not rated for your particular processor.  In this case, you may need to buy a better cooling setup.

One last thought...  I assume that you have cleaned the heatsink and fans of any dust buildup...
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PUNKYCommented:
Better cooling fan and good ventilation inside computer case will help a lot. Try the fan below:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118020
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
I bought the computer at MDG, chose options and they built it there. I clean my fans every one in a while, no dust in there. I changed the heatsink and fan 6 months ago, there was no thermal grease, and I didn't apply grease on the new one...

I'm planning on buying the fan proposed by punky, should be home by saturday or sunday.  Besides, I didn't reinstall Intel active monitor since I have windows Vista, so I have no exact Temperature, any idea of a program that could do the same (or more)?
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
I just fear the fan won't fit on my motherboard... how can I be sure... they say socket 775. Where can I find that information?
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Dukie91191Commented:
Hi Flopizzz
Couple of things. First off, P4's are notorious for this kind of heating problem. Running a P4 system a couple years ago, I got it all the way to 75c, and that was without overclocking. In regard to your fan question, yes, your motherboard is a socket 775 board if your running a P4 at 3.0 Ghz stock clock. For a fan brand, Thermaltake, or Zalman are both great choices. For a program to monitor temp, use the free app Speedfan. Not only will it tell you your temps, but it will allow you to change the speed of your fans to keep up with your temps. Applying thermal grease would be a good first step though. Let me know how this turns out, I hope I've been of help to you.
-Cheers, Dukie
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
Well, Dukie, I don't really mind my temp being 80 C withouth overclocking, as long as it doesn't bother me when I use the comp. Something new on vista, my computer keeps on restarting (about 2 to 3 times per week, sometimes more (up to14 times in a week)) without any apparent reason. Once, I had a message (reopening the computer) saying that the cpu temp was too high, and that it was the reason of the sudden shut down. I suspect that all the restart bugs are caused by this 80C... I tried to search on microsoft for that error (details of the error are below), but they have nothing about it.... It is the only real reason why I want my cpu to cool off.

Here are some details about the error, if anyone likes codes...
Btw... I'm french in Quebec... that is why it is in french. I traduced some words to english in parenthesis ()

Nom du journal  (journal name) :System
Source :       EventLog
Date :         2007-10-02 19:42:59
ID de l'événement (event ID):6008
Catégorie de la tâche (task category):Aucun
Niveau (Level):       Erreur
Mots clés (keywords):    Classique
Utilisateur (user):  N/A
Ordinateur (computer):   Mathieu-PC
Description :
L'arrêt système précédant à 19:27:09 le 2007-10-02 n'était pas prévu. (System stop at ... was "unwanted" or "not asked by user". )
XML de lévénement  (event XML) :
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="EventLog" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="32768">6008</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2007-10-02T23:42:59.000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>31949</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>System</Channel>
    <Computer>Mathieu-PC</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>19:27:09</Data>
    <Data>2007-10-02</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>1284</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Binary>D7070A000200020013001B0009002302D7070A000200020017001B0009002302600900003C000000010000006009000000000000B00400000100000000000000</Binary>
  </EventData>
</Event>


a way to fix this error could be helpful too, i guess! I know nothing to these codes, but I guess that they don't reveal much... so good luck to anyone who would like to try to help me in that way and thank you!
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FeMasterCommented:
Modern CPUs (and most BIOS in the last 7+ years) have thermal protection, or thermal shut-down.  If a certain temperature is reached, they will kill the system to protect the processor from frying itself.

You problem is definitely the lack of thermal compound, and I'd have to say that there is no need for a new heatsink/fan.  Get some thermal compound between the heatsink and processor, and your temps will drop significantly.  80c is WAY too hot to run a processor at.  I'm surprised that it still works at all.  You really shouldn't see anything higher than 50c to 60c under heavy loads; significantly less when idle.

The reason it quits so often under Vista is that Vista is more processor intensive (uses more processor power) than XP, which causes the processor to heat up even more. Without the thermal compound to help transfer that heat, it just keeps getting hotter and hotter, until the processor goes into thermal protection and shuts down.   If you get that thermal compound in there, you should not have any further problems...
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PUNKYCommented:
Agree with FeMaster about the thermal compound, this is very important part that conducts heat to heatsink and fan blowing heat away. You must have it.

Check this fan for socket 478:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106606

Also, I like to know where do you know the temp? in bios page or third party software?
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
i'll simply try with the thermal compound and see if it is better. As for the current temp I'm talking about, I just remember that it reached 74C at peak, when I had intel active monitor installed (which I used to get the temp). Now that it crashes for high temp, I PRESUME that is is about 80C in peaks.

I just downloaded speedfan,  CPU temp is 59 idle...

HOWEVER, I may have found the source of the problem: Isnt the cpu fan supposed to blow hot air AWAY (outside the box)? I watched my fan spinning, stopped it with my finger (yes... i know its no good ;)) and it actually takes air from outside to blow it to the cpu. Is that normal?!? Sorry for being a complete hardware newbie! well... some are worse, but not that many :\
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PUNKYCommented:
The cpu will blow the air downward (to cpu) that is correct. Apply thermal paste and let us know the result.
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
alright, ill try to do that tomorrow same hour
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
ok here are some updates to the nature of the problem. I changed the position of my fans, arranged it all to have a constant flow of air in the computer. The idle temp of my cpu is now 49C-50C, which is much better! Though, if I run Speedfan and check the CPU usage and temp when I open a subfolder (just go over it to see what's in it) in the Start menu, the CPU usage jumps to 100% and temp keeps going up, I stopped looking at it when it reached 65C. Now here's a new question I ask... sorry about keeping on asking new questions ;)! Is it normal that such easy and stupid activity (as opening the start menu) uses the cpu that much and generates that much heat? Imagine how hot it becomes when I burn a DVD... I have not done that test yet because I don't have any blank DVD left.

And for the thermal compound, I didn't have the opportunity to buy some today, I'll try tomorrow.
Btw, do I apply it directly on the CPU and on the face of the heatsink that touchez it or only on the heatsink?
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PUNKYCommented:
45-50C is normal temp, and I am sure it will lower after you have thermal applied. If you use many programs at the time, temp could up to 65C but very depending what program and how long the system stay on, also room environment as well.

The thermal paste will apply on top of cpu surface and under the heatsink.

CPU usage could reach sometime up to 100% but that is very rare. If you see 100% usage all the time, and not many programs running, then it is possible virus, spyware, or else.

Click on Start > Run > type in msconfig and you will seea popup windows, there you can check how many programs, services, etc. currently running.
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
i guess I'll have to wait to apply the thermal paste, but here are some screenshots of what i'm talking about. when burning, it probably goes higher (it always did before)

Idle with no extra program opened:
idle.jpeg of size 40.729 KB
http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e9bdd/

Daily use:
# normal use.jpg of size 40.93 KB
http://www.filefactory.com/file/61809d/

Problem with start menu. Besides, nothing's in use.
# overheat(startmenu).jpg of size 230.443 KB
http://www.filefactory.com/file/00d1da/

there are no viruses, trojans, or any such thing. I always keep up to date with my startup in Msconfig so no junk is using the cpu.
Could this just be one more flaw of Vista?
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
... dont follow the links ill post new ones soon
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
if you cant se a thing on the last pic, dont search, go there: http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07404/overheat_startmenu_.jpg
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PUNKYCommented:
You have 51 programs running. I still think thermal paste would help alot here. There is nothing to do with Vista though, and I dont know how much your power supply is, but I would add more fans that help the airflow better inside machine.

You might can test before buy more fans, open the case, use a small cooling fan that around and then flow the air directly to system motherboard. If you see temp lower than that supports more fans.
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FeMasterCommented:
OK the airflow through the computer is a good thing.  I'm not sure of the type of case you have, but generally you want some fans blowing in, and some blowing out.  Generally the fans on the lower part of the case (usually bottom front) should be blowing into the case.  Any fans in the upper part of the case, should be blowing out of the case.

What I strive for (my personal preference here) is to have slightly more airflow going INTO the case than out of the case.  This creates a slight positive pressure inside the case (pressure is higher inside the case than outside,) which helps to stop dust buildup around all the cracks and openings on the outside of the case, and helps to keep dust out of the optical drives, floppy drive, etc.

The fan for your processor should be blowing ONTO the heatsink.

Beyond that, I've got to say that the only thing that's going to help you from here, is to get some thermal compound on the processor.  Generally you will put a small amount on the processor itself, and none on the heatsink.  When the heatsink is reattached, it will spread the compound out on the processor, and make contact with the heatsink.  For a nice "How-To" check out this link:
http://www.techpowerup.com/printarticle.php?id=134
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
ok!
sorry for this long pause. I'm back.

I applied thermal compound, it went 3 degrees down, which is a good start! I made my own statistics every time the computer froze or restarted, to figure out that it had probably nothing to do with the temperature (usually. sometimes it does, but its not the same message.)

About the 100% cpu usage, I made tests opening other subdirectories in the start menu, and they don't always use that muche cpu... sometimes its only 2%. My guess here would be that the computer tries to take everything in memory so the program can load faster if I open it. It would explain why programs that scan the computer (like duplicate finder, spyware doctor, or else) use that much cpu when I just open their folder. it is what I think, tell me if I am wrong or if I can be right.

I read a lot on the subject and learned that it could be caused by a bad hardware, especially the RAM. I have 2X 512 MB kingston 400mHz running in dual channel. Only one year after I purchased my computer, I had a problem with one of the two memory sticks and had to change it. My guess now is that the same thing happens again, one year later. Do you think it is possible? if yes, do you know a way to test it (is there a program or do I really have to test them one by one to see if the computer freezes?)

thanks again
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PUNKYCommented:
Yes, test the mem to sort out issue would be good idea.
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FeMasterCommented:
Run the program, MemTest86, which can be found here: http://www.memtest86.com/

On the opening page, it looks as if you have to pay for the software, however if you look in the left side-bar, there is a link called "Free Download", choose this.  Once inside, download the second link, titled, "    Pre-Compiled Memtest86 v3.3 installable from Windows and DOS".

There is also a CD image if you have burning software, and would like to burn a bootable CD of MemTest86, otherwise, I believe you will be creating a bootable floppy with the above mentioned download.
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
here are some news about what I did, but I guess my topic isn't in the right forum section anymore.....! I downloaded memtest86, butned the iso to a cd, ran the program, let it do 2 complete RAM tests. It didn't find any errors. I tried to manually test the ram sticks, nothing. after 2 more days of testing many methods, I decided to format the drive and go back to windows XP. I did so yesterday. Today, the computer restarted again unexpectedly. I went in the event log, and from now, in windows XP it gives me one more error, but I'm not sure it has a link with the restart. I will test the computer for 2-3 more days and try to find error messages explaining the problem if it is still there! (I tried some things: drivers update, updated the firmware of the cd-rom, scanned for viruses one more time)... I'll see if everyting runs ok or if the problem's still there... talk to you later
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
oh and about the temp, for now everything goes well... not over 62C with lots of programs running
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flopizzzAuthor Commented:
oh well, it still restarts, and nothing in the event log... thank you guys for your help, I'll open a new topic in the appropriate section. You did help me a lot with the temp problem, but it seems I have something else to fix.
thanks
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