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OIL = $100 per barrel - TDP revisited...
Some of you will no doubt remember this anything-to-oil through thermal depolymerisation article, http://discovermagazine.com/2003/may/featoil for a reminder.
Oil was touching $40 per barrel when that was written and since then there have been problems with the smell of the raw materials (turkey guts). Oil is now more than twice the price than it was then and it seems that you can put all kinds of crap in the converter and still get oil out of it so why hasn't it caught on? Is there a fundamental reason there isn't a TDP reformer connected to each new sewage plant?
Oil was touching $40 per barrel when that was written and since then there have been problems with the smell of the raw materials (turkey guts). Oil is now more than twice the price than it was then and it seems that you can put all kinds of crap in the converter and still get oil out of it so why hasn't it caught on? Is there a fundamental reason there isn't a TDP reformer connected to each new sewage plant?
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"New York alone produces 5 million tons of wet sewage sludge per year, that's half a million tons of organic solids."
And how do you dispose of 4.5 million tones of far from pure water? And furthemore how much energy does it take to extract those 4.5 tons?
How many barrels of oil does that 0.5 million tons represent?
And how do you dispose of 4.5 million tones of far from pure water? And furthemore how much energy does it take to extract those 4.5 tons?
How many barrels of oil does that 0.5 million tons represent?
ASKER
Well, if you've got a modern sewage treatment plant you put the water back into the river that you got it from. In my home town of Reading, UK the water goes into the river Kennet and then gets pumped out again about 2 miles down stream and into the water pipes - I drink my own pee like Ghandi ;) Sewage systems are normally self-powered through methane capture but the solid sludge is still very organic.
1 ton is about 7.5 barrels, so 0.5 million tons represents about 2 million barrels of oil per year assuming about 40% conversion.
1 ton is about 7.5 barrels, so 0.5 million tons represents about 2 million barrels of oil per year assuming about 40% conversion.
"1 ton is about 7.5 barrels, so 0.5 million tons represents about 2 million barrels of oil per year assuming about 40% conversion."
Thank you for that information which I was too lazy to look up.
It is interesting to note that an authorative (2004) estimate of the US consumption of oil was
20 million bbl per day.
Thank you for that information which I was too lazy to look up.
It is interesting to note that an authorative (2004) estimate of the US consumption of oil was
20 million bbl per day.
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<<<>>Is there a fundamental reason there isn't a TDP reformer connected to each new sewage plant?>>>
The big problem is that infrastructures are hard to change and this technology hasn't shown itself to be effective environmentally or economically.
You won't be able to convince a community to invest in it. The approach would be "Please spend a billion dollars to set up a plant and process in the hopes that ten years from now you'll be able to recover the money and won't have to shut the plant down because of smells or bio-hazard.
At the state level, it might be feasible but money is tight and it could easily work out poorly.
At the federal level it makes sense but who would be advocating it? Usually, things only happen because someone who wants to make a buck and has a lot of clout is pushing for it.
There's no evil conspiracy, just short-sightedness and risk-adversity.
The big problem is that infrastructures are hard to change and this technology hasn't shown itself to be effective environmentally or economically.
You won't be able to convince a community to invest in it. The approach would be "Please spend a billion dollars to set up a plant and process in the hopes that ten years from now you'll be able to recover the money and won't have to shut the plant down because of smells or bio-hazard.
At the state level, it might be feasible but money is tight and it could easily work out poorly.
At the federal level it makes sense but who would be advocating it? Usually, things only happen because someone who wants to make a buck and has a lot of clout is pushing for it.
There's no evil conspiracy, just short-sightedness and risk-adversity.
I'm with grg99 -- As long as there are other sources that become available at the $40+ level (e.g., oil shell and tar sand) those will be the preferred sources. Consider that unprocessed tar sand is useless, but municipal sewage solids can be used for fertilizer, so the cost-effectivness must include that in the calculation. Also, the location of the plants (near cities) is a factor: Much more must be spent to avoid releasing toxins when there are lots of people nearby.
On the whole, I'm all for it. Anything that converts waste into fuel has got to be worth examining. But in these cases, I trust the market. When the process becomes cost-effective, it will be embraced. Since it is not yet common, it must not yet be viable -- Q.E.D.
On the whole, I'm all for it. Anything that converts waste into fuel has got to be worth examining. But in these cases, I trust the market. When the process becomes cost-effective, it will be embraced. Since it is not yet common, it must not yet be viable -- Q.E.D.
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Reading www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/13/us_air_force_garbage_waste_biofuel_talks/ reminded me I still have this Q open.
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