HP ProLiant DL380 G5 5345QC 2GB hard drive question urgent

hello,

I have purchased a HP ProLiant DL380 G5 5345QC 2GB server this week.

My urgent question is can i use any Small form factor (laptop) hard drive in this server?
Prefered makes and models would be useful.

Many thanks
drews1fAsked:
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gobanCommented:
You would be best served using 2.5 inch SAS drive. Make sure the drive you purchase either comes along with the drive caddy from HP or you buy one separately. This will allow you to use the RAID and hot-plug features of your server.
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jeffiepooCommented:
Well, I don't know what OS you are using, or if it is an mini IDE or a SATA drive.

If it is a mini IDE, and you have an IDE controller on the motherboard, go to your local computer store and get a mini IDE to IDE converter and a 2.5" to 3.5" mounting system. Assuming the drive is formatted and your OS  will recognize it. You could probably fit this in one of those removable drive things if you get this hardware. (we sell it at our store)

If it is a SATA drive, all you will probably need is the 2.5" to 3.5" mounting system.

-Jeff

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lnkevinCommented:
With DL380 G5, HP no long makes 3.5 drives. All the drive are in small form factor (SFF).

Small form factor (laptop) hard drive in this server?
No, you cannot. It is not recomended to put a laptop hard drive in your server. Although small form factor (SFF) from HP is about the same size with laptop, but the server SATA architecture is way different with laptop and desktop technology. HP SATA small form factor (SFF) design for heavy duty transaction and 24X7 running which is laptop SATA may not qualify for.

K
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DifladermausCommented:
I agree with Inkevin, HP servers are designed to run enterprise class disks. Even if you could get a laptop disk to work it does not meet the MTBF (mean time before failure) specs of a server class system. I would highly recommend using disks from HP in this hardware.

Difladermaus
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andyalderCommented:
I do not think the 2.5" SATA disks for Proliants are 24*7 duty-cycle Kevin. Can't find it on HP's site though so I'll email presales on Monday to confirm. The SAS ones are as you say are 100% duty cycle as opposed to to a laptop disk.
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lnkevinCommented:
Andy,

Check this link under Internal Drive Support:
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12477_na/12477_na.html

K
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andyalderCommented:
Doesn't say what the duty-cycle of the SFF SATA is, all it says is they only get 1 years warranty as opposed to the SAS ones that get 3 years. To be quite honest I've never seen one of the SFF SATA ones, none of our customers are interested in SATA except for the big ones to backup onto. Are you sure you didn't mistype SATA when you meant SAS above?
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andyalderCommented:
I think they may be using Seagate Momentus rev3  for the SFF SATA ones, the figures in HP's quickspecs for them match those in Seagate's doc if you allow for HP averaging out read and write seek times. It makes little sense to use them even though they fit since, as others have said, the MTBF isn't going to match the spec that Seagate offer in their stats if you put them in a server environment, get the SAS ones even though they cost a bit more.

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11940_div/11940_div.html 
www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/notebook/momentus/5400_3/100398882d.pdf.

As a matter of interest how have you ended up with a server without any disks?
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drews1fAuthor Commented:
Hi,

As far as I can tell almost all HP servers from my specific HP reseller come diskless.

Thanks for your input. It is quite clear i need HP SAS disks and thats just what ill need to get.
In your experience is it possible to get this sort of HP product from a local supplier? Or as im sure will be the case; Will i need to order this direct from HP website or my nationwide reseller?

I only ask because this is a time sensitive project.

Many thanks Andy + Kevin.
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lnkevinCommented:
I am pretty sure you can find a local authorized dealer. It is best to order from them because of the convience, time consume, and return advantage. Check this web site and plug in your city, state, and server model and hit find:
http://hp.via.infonow.net/locator/us_partner/?jumpid=hpr_R1002_USEN

K
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andyalderCommented:
drews1's Timezone on EE is set to UK...

They'll be lucky to get one before Tuesday morning through the channel and even then they will have to pay an uplift for 9AM delivery. Although I normally advise getting kit from an HP preferred partner most resellers don't answer the phone on the weekend. We certainly don't sell on the weekend although it's unlikely we would have passed an order for a server without disks without querying it in the first place.

This may be a case of buying one disk from an online reseller on Saturday with a guarantee of Monday delivery to get the software loaded, they can always add more disks on Tuesday to make it a stable platform. Or borowing a spare from another server.

Any more on the SATA SFF disks or are you going to pretend you didn't say it K? I'm not having a snipe but it is important to know that you can put both SAS and SATA disks in these servers.
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lnkevinCommented:
I will definitely choose SAS over SATA since all of our 800 HP servers in our data center are running with SAS. HP support guys gave us a bit info of SATA, but we never consider a change. He said SATA for server is definitely capaple for 24X7. Therefore its cost is almost the same with SAS. However, SATA is SATA you can't compare SATA with SAS. It is not apple to apple. SATA is available for small business who are looking for best cost effective with more storage hardware. Make sense? Check these drives to see the cost and storage space.
http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=3419896&pagemode=ca
http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=2685293&pagemode=ca

K
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gobanCommented:
I agree with all comments posted so far. I'd like to also recommend you to use RAID for redundancy either levels 1, 5 or 10 depending on your need. Its always a good idea to spend a little extra money protect your data and increase your server's up-time with hot-swappable RAID. Your server has space for a total of 8 2.5 inch drives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_RAID_levels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nested_RAID_levels
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lnkevinCommented:
I'm not having a snipe but it is important to know that you can put both SAS and SATA disks in these servers......
Andy, for your knowledge, I am please to repost this link. Make sure you check the bottom of the page to see if it is compatible with DL380 G5 :-))
http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=3419896&pagemode=ca

K
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andyalderCommented:
K.

In www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Servers/Q_23130452.html#a20800508 you said...

"HP SATA small form factor (SFF) design for heavy duty transaction and 24X7 running which is laptop SATA may not qualify for."

And that is not true as far as I can establish. If you wish to re-phrase that as "HP **SAS** small form factor (SFF) [are] designed for heavy duty transactions" I would agree with you.
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andyalderCommented:
Dude; SATA isn't designed for heavy usage.

The 800 servers in your data centre are running SAS rather than SATA by your own statement! Just because you can put crap SATA disks in servers doesn't mean you should.
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andyalderCommented:
Andy,
you're right, I did mean SAS in my comment above about heavy duty disks.
K.

That's all right Kevin, it shows you're a man by admitting to the mistake.
A.
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drews1fAuthor Commented:
cheers guys you 2 really know your stuff :o

I guess i am just going to put an order in for 2 SAS drives tomorrow with gaurantee before 9am delivery on tuesday. I phoned some local authorised dealers for HP in aberdeen but the standard response was no we dont stock but we can order them!

How will i split the points?

One other query. With these hot swap drives can i use more drives as an alternative to a tape drive?

i.e i want 1 drive mirrored to another (i believe thats raid 1?)

but could i get 2 extra drives for slot 3 and alternate them each day so i have a mirrored drive offsite every day? Or is tape a better way to go?

Many thanks
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andyalderCommented:
There is an option in the latest version of the ACU to break a mirror but it involves turning the server off before removing one of the disks. This is to avoid adding to the hot-plug count, each time you remove a disk hot it adds to the SMART statistics.

You could always use 3 USB disks and cycle them for backup, USB to SATA caddies are about £15 and disks about £50 or a bit more if you buy a pre-assembled external USB disk. That's cheaper than buying the 120GB internal SATA to back up onto anyway. (HP say SATA are secondary storage only which is backup/archive).

If you intend to keep monthly archives than you really need tape, http://h18006.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10854_div/10854_div.html but even the DAT72 in a 1U enclosure is over £500, the non-rackmount ones are a bit cheaper.
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lnkevinCommented:
drews1f,

You split the point to every contributor to this question. Here is the list: goban, jeffipoo, Difladermaus, lnkevin, andyalder....

K
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andyalderCommented:
There is a "Accept Multiple Solutions " link at the bottom of each comment, I don't think it matters which one you click, they all take you to the split points screen.
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gsdctechCommented:
Hi,

I know this thread is more or less closed, but I don't want to start a new related topic. My question is:

... so the conclusion is that a 2.5" notebook SATA drive *can* indeed be used in the DL380 G5. That is what I am looking for because my application is to just use the DL380 as a test bed, where it is not run 24x7 and is not mission critical.

We just want something cheaper as we plan to use multiple HDD's to the same DL380 chassis, thus giving it multiple personalities.

In this case, can someone comment that we can indeed those 2.5" 7200rpm notebook SATA drives?

THanks!
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andyalderCommented:
The entry level SATA SFF disks are laptop disks, I think they are Seagate Momentus 5400.5 http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13021_div/13021_div.pdf

See "SATA SFF Hot Plug Entry (ETY) Drives" under http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12477_div/12477_div.html (I think 431786-B21 is momentus 5400.4 rather than .5
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